To that I say:

Quote John317:

"How was Jesus able to overcome? Because He had a different nature than we have? No. He overcame the same way we must overcome. Rev. 3: 21. By faith in God and in His power."

I agreed the first part of what you said. He had the same nature as us through His mother Mary. But I disagreed that He overcame the same way we must overcome because:

1. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, unlike us, He had no human father.
2. If we could overcome the same way He must overcome, then we do not need a Saviour.
3. God did not have to send His Son to die on the Cross for the human race.
4. Genesis 2:17 would be meaningless.
5. We are saved by the grace of God only through Jesus Christ's merit in overcoming sins.

VERY WELL SAID Yongttay.

Thank you.

Wow...and I missed this? Anyway....

1] Never, never say that Christ HAD a fallen nature - a sinful nature. As God He was sinless in thought, deed and nature. However, the humanity that He assumed did have a fallen nature for it was our humanity after the fall. We must separate Christ as God and Christ as the Son of Man.*

2] The statement, "He overcame the same way we must overcome" is legalistic. We are not under law and therefore we are not expected to be perfect. That's the whole reason Christ took our humanity. Yes, as we see the love of God a change begins, not in our nature, but in our mind. This leads to growth, but to say we must overcome as Christ overcame is legalism.

Notes *

“In Christ were united the divine and the human--the Creator and the creature. The nature of God, whose law had been transgressed, and the nature of Adam, the transgressor, meet in Jesus--the Son of God, and the Son of man.” [SDA Bible Commentary Vol 7, 926]

Let me give you a non-Adventist Author who understands the gospel. He is referring to this passage:

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh

"The intention behind the use of 'likeness' here was to take account of the fact that the Son of God was not changed into a man, but rather assumed human nature while still remaining Himself. On this view the Greek word used has its sense of 'likeness'; but the intention is not in any way to water down the reality of Christ's fallen human nature, but to draw attention to the fact that, while the Son of God truly assumed fallen human nature, He never became fallen human nature and nothing more, but always remained Himself....We understand Paul's thought to be that the Son of God assumed the selfsame fallen human nature that it ours, but that in His case that fallen human nature was never the whole of Him - He never ceased to be the eternal Son of God." [Romans - A Shorter Commentary - C.E.B. Cranfield, pp 176-177]

By the way, both Jones and Waggoner made this same point in 1888.

The problem with saying that Christ HAD a sinful human nature makes Him a sinner under the curse!

Would you like some proof?

Okay:

"Surely I [David] was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." [Ps. 51:5]

Since David didn't even have a developed brain to be tempted with at conception, he had to be speaking of his nature alone that made him sinful.

“What is man, that he should be pure, Or he who is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?" [Job 15:14]

If you are born of a woman then you are not righteous. You are sinful....Why? Because through mom you received Adam's life that is under the curse. See Romans chapter 5.

"...we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest." [Eph 2:3]

"By nature" alone we are children of wrath....

Now what happened to Christ as Man when He was born of a woman?

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

What was born under the condemnation of the law? Our humanity, or Christ's Divine life? Right, our humanity, which Christ assumed. He became what He was not by native right - sin!

Proof?

Okay:

"For he [God the Father] hath made him [Jesus as God] to be sin [Jesus as man] for us, who knew no sin [as God]; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." [2 Corinthians 5:21]

But, thanks be to God, "God sent forth His son, made…under the law, to redeem them that were under the law." Galatians 4:4,5. By His coming He brought redemption to every soul who is under the law. But in order perfectly to bring that redemption to men under the law, He Himself must come to men, just where they are and as they are, under the law.

And this "was made." He did, for he was "made under the law;" He was made "guilty;" He was made condemned by the law; He was "made" as guilty as any man is guilty who is under the law. He was "made" under condemnation as fully as any man is under condemnation because of his violation of the law. He was "made" under the curse as completely as any man in the world has ever been or ever can be under the curse. For it is written: "He that is hanged ["on a tree"] is accursed of God." Deut. 21:23.

The Hebrew makes this stronger still, for the literal translation is: "He that hangeth on a tree is the curse of God." And this is exactly the strength of the fact respecting Christ, for it is written that He was "made a curse." Thus, when He was made under the law, He was made all that it means to be under the law. He was made guilty; He was made condemned; He was made a curse.

But bear in mind forever that all this He "was made." He was none of this of Himself, of native fault, but all of it he "was made."... [The Consecrated Way to Christian Perfection, chapter 5]

Quote Robert:

"1] Never, never say that Christ HAD a fallen nature - a sinful nature. As God He was sinless in thought, deed and nature. However, the humanity that He assumed did have a fallen nature for it was our humanity after the fall. We must separate Christ as God and Christ as the Son of Man."


I am confused at what you are trying to say. Are you saying that Jesus had two natures: Being the Son of God, He had a sinless nature. Being the Son of Man, He had a sinful nature. May I ask you a question. Was Mary a biological mother or a surrogate mother of Jesus?

There is only One Jesus - the Son of God. The humanity He assumed for 33 years, was our humanity.


-BC- 7BC
-TI- S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7
-CN- HEB8
-CT- Hebrews
-PR- 03
-PG- 927

By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man [mankind]. [How?] This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself. [What type of humanity?]….To bring humanity into Christ, to bring the fallen race into oneness with divinity, is the work of redemption.





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