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Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do.
And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree with
- even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.
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#116183 - 03/12/07 05:45 PM Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32171
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
How many of you have read the book "Creeping Compromise" by Joe Crews? Who is this guy anyway?

He says that mixed swimming is a sin.

Wearing of pantsuits by women has caused borderline homosexuals to go over the line into perversion p.43 Oh ... and also men who wear Pastel hued shirts.

And wearing of rings is a "sin against the church" p.72

Last but not least ....

"The control of appetite is the basic victory which must be gained, through the power of Christ, to redeem the tragic indulgence of our first parents. This is the victory which every child of Adam must claim in order to be saved" p.112

I have to admit that this type of Adventist material makes me embarrassed.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#116186 - 03/12/07 05:55 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
Gail Offline

Mom to lots of chickies


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 29893
Loc: Buon giorno, Principessa
And us...

Joe Crews was the front man for Amazing Facts before Doug Batchelor took over that job.
_________________________
Gail

A heart set on love will do no wrong- Confucius

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17

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#116194 - 03/12/07 06:37 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
Robert Offline


Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 23638
Loc: Columbia, SC
Joe Crews....Hmmm? Well, he is the main reason I branched off into legalism.
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified"

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#116204 - 03/12/07 08:48 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
D. Allan Offline
Panning for gold


Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 4205
Loc: USA
Quote:
I have to admit that this type of Adventist material makes me embarrassed.


Its that type of stuff that makes it difficult for a church to keep members.

____________________
Do not force others including children by any means whatsoever to adopt your views.... through compassionate dialouge help others to renounce fanaticism and narrowness. -Thich Nhat Hahn

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#116208 - 03/12/07 09:17 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: D. Allan]
bevin Offline


Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 4699
Loc: New England
Yep, so...

why doesn't someone do something about this kind of material?

I mean, other than publishing it and promoting it and selling it...

/Bevin


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#116216 - 03/12/07 11:26 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
Jeannieb43 Offline
Princess of Pasadena


Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 3931
Loc: California
What is the publication date on that book?

I think Joe Crews is from the '50s or earlier. A lot of Adventists have modified their thinking since that time.
_________________________
Jeannie


...Change is inevitable; growth is optional....

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#116221 - 03/13/07 12:38 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Jeannieb43]
Stan Jensen Offline
Very Adventist


Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 6073
Loc: Adventistan
That book was a 'hot seller' in the 1980 and 1990, it is still popular with some ethnic people from out side of North America...

My Church has to be big enough to have those who hold those convictions for themself with out being mocked by those who don't. I have seen both the right and the left bash those who believe different.

We must be a Just Church, and allow religious liberty inside of our Church as well.
_________________________
The Lord bless you and keep you: The Lord make His face shine upon you, and be gracious unto you: The Lord lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

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#116224 - 03/13/07 12:53 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Stan Jensen]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32171
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Stan ... you have made some good points here.
But if you have read the book.... he is not just speaking for himself and his personal belief. He is saying that ALL people should believe and behave as HE believes. This is what turns me off with this kind of religion.

We are all entitled to our beliefs. What makes it distasteful is when people are dogmatic and try to push their personal beliefs and insist that everyone behave as they do. That's when it gets personal.

People who take such "liberties" with religion have a right to do so ... but to sit in judgment of those who don't have similar views and behavior seems wrong to me.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#116226 - 03/13/07 01:18 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32171
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
(Quoted from Stan)

Quote:
convictions for themself



Let me just say ... There are many paths to God. I believe God can save Joe Crews. I have my belief in scripture ... but I am not going to say that my way is the only way. No one else has to believe as I do. I may be wrong in many areas. But we are not saved by our knowledge. When I get to heaven God will straighten out my faulty brain and reeducate me.

What I do not have is affection for those who are intolerant like Joe Crews. By his definition ... I am lost. By MY definition ... He can be saved. Tolerance vs. Intolerance.

If he had these as his personal convictions for himself ... I would not fault him. But by telling me that I have to believe as he does ... this crosses the line.


Edited by Redwood (03/13/07 01:58 AM)
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#116235 - 03/13/07 07:03 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Robert]
Gerry Cabalo Offline



Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 15434
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
Originally Posted By: Robert
Joe Crews....Hmmm? Well, he is the main reason I branched off into legalism.


Rob, I wish/hope/pray that you could see that you have swung with the pendulum way to the extreme right with Joe Crews and way to the extreme left with the so-called new theology.

Gerry

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#116236 - 03/13/07 07:05 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
Gerry Cabalo Offline



Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 15434
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC

Quote:

Let me just say ... There are many paths to God.


Many paths to God??? Only ONE way, my friend. Only ONE way!!!

Gerry

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#116237 - 03/13/07 07:09 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: bevin]
Gerry Cabalo Offline



Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 15434
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
Originally Posted By: bevin
Yep, so...

why doesn't someone do something about this kind of material?

I mean, other than publishing it and promoting it and selling it...

/Bevin
You mean book burning, Bevin?

Gerry

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#116238 - 03/13/07 07:11 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: D. Allan]
Gerry Cabalo Offline



Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 15434
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
Originally Posted By: D. Allan
Quote:
I have to admit that this type of Adventist material makes me embarrassed.


Its that type of stuff that makes it difficult for a church to keep members.


The first booklet I ever read that was authored by Joe Crews was on jewelry. It was so far out I threw it away and have never picked up another that was authored by him.

Gerry


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#116246 - 03/13/07 10:39 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Gerry Cabalo]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32171
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Quote:

Let me just say ... There are many paths to God.


Many paths to God??? Only ONE way, my friend. Only ONE way!!!

Gerry
There are as many paths as there are individuals. God works with us in and through our individual circumstances. It is the belief like Joe Crews that there is only ONE way and that is HIS way that really bothers me. It is this belief that I reject.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#116247 - 03/13/07 10:41 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Jeannieb43]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32171
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: Jeannieb43
What is the publication date on that book?

I think Joe Crews is from the '50s or earlier. A lot of Adventists have modified their thinking since that time.


Jeannie ... I have to confess that after I read this ... I had a book burning. It made me so angry that an Adventist could write such garbage. So ... I don't have the date. But I do believe it was from the mid 1980s.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#116275 - 03/13/07 03:57 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
Jeannieb43 Offline
Princess of Pasadena


Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 3931
Loc: California
I'm sympathetic to that reaction on your part. I'm sure the Lord is too. I just wonder how God feels about those who claim to be His servants misrepresenting Him that way.

I just heard Dr. Alden Thompson speak at an Adventist Forum meeting [I heard it on tape] about the changes in his own understanding of Ellen White. He read the Testimonies from cover to cover [they're printed in chronological order] and he pointed out how her later messages were much more about God and His love to us, than were her earlier messages. She too changed her perception of our loving God. This is why Dr. Thompson wrote his latest book ("Escape the Flames" ??--can't recall the name exactly), which he said is autobiographical [i.e., follows his own understanding of EGW]. I've bought the book but haven't started reading it yet.

But he concludes that there are some EGW passages that are inconsistent with each other. He has decided to use the context in which they were written to help him decide which to use.

I don't know if Joe Crews used any EGW in his book or not. But at least he wouldn't have been alone in using the harsher type of preaching, at least at some point.
_________________________
Jeannie


...Change is inevitable; growth is optional....

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#116277 - 03/13/07 04:17 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Jeannieb43]
Gail Offline

Mom to lots of chickies


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 29893
Loc: Buon giorno, Principessa
Jeannie, the book title is Escape From the Flames and it is an EXCELLENT book! I guarantee that you will enjoy it!
_________________________
Gail

A heart set on love will do no wrong- Confucius

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17

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#116278 - 03/13/07 04:44 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Gail]
bevin Offline


Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 4699
Loc: New England
You can get "Creeping Compromise" on line - so I suppose you could organize a virtual burning ...

http://www.nisbett.com/leavening/creeping/default.htm

/Bevin

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#116279 - 03/13/07 04:51 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Jeannieb43]
David Koot Offline
Craftsman


Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 3543
Loc: N38d14.516m, W122d37.982m
Originally Posted By: Jeannieb43
I'm sure the Lord is too. I just wonder how God feels about those who claim to be His servants misrepresenting Him that way.



One might do well do be very reticent to speak for God as you have here. Each person has his or her concerns and understanding of issues. We would do well to live and let live, and 'quench not the Spirit.' As for the book, I, too, read it quite a few years ago. While my reaction was mixed, I did recognize some areas of concern which I, also, have seen. So, as with many books, there is good, and there is not so good. Hang onto the good, and recognize the not so good. But, beware of judging Joe Crews and his ministry! The ministry he founded has done and is doing wonderful things for God. None of us is perfect, including, I'm sure, Joe Crews, including, as well, myself.

Dave

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#116282 - 03/13/07 05:23 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Jeannieb43]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32171
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: Jeannieb43
I'm sympathetic to that reaction on your part. I'm sure the Lord is too. I just wonder how God feels about those who claim to be His servants misrepresenting Him that way.

I just heard Dr. Alden Thompson speak at an Adventist Forum meeting [I heard it on tape] about the changes in his own understanding of Ellen White. He read the Testimonies from cover to cover [they're printed in chronological order] and he pointed out how her later messages were much more about God and His love to us, than were her earlier messages. She too changed her perception of our loving God. This is why Dr. Thompson wrote his latest book ("Escape the Flames" ??--can't recall the name exactly), which he said is autobiographical [i.e., follows his own understanding of EGW]. I've bought the book but haven't started reading it yet.

But he concludes that there are some EGW passages that are inconsistent with each other. He has decided to use the context in which they were written to help him decide which to use.

I don't know if Joe Crews used any EGW in his book or not. But at least he wouldn't have been alone in using the harsher type of preaching, at least at some point.


Yes ... Alden is a wonderful man. He stayed over night at my house once and I was able to pick his brillant brain for some time. He has taught me to be one thing ... TOLERANT of all people and beliefs. He pointed out to me how Ellen White changed her understanding over time. But there is something in her writings that can reach everyone. I learned some valuable lessons from him. I respect him greatly.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#116283 - 03/13/07 05:25 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: bevin]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32171
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: bevin
You can get "Creeping Compromise" on line - so I suppose you could organize a virtual burning ...

http://www.nisbett.com/leavening/creeping/default.htm

/Bevin


Oh NO !!! How can I burn cyberspace??? I burned his hardcopy book in my woodstove. But cyberspace???

No ... I am suppose to be tolerant of all kinds of strange beliefs. To each his own. If God can save Joe Crews ... then I guess I should be kind to him.

And Bevin ... if you like him ... then that is fine. I would not want to criticize your beliefs. I will save some cyberspace just for you so you can read him.


_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

Top
#116284 - 03/13/07 05:31 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
Gerry Cabalo Offline



Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 15434
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
Originally Posted By: Redwood
Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Quote:

Let me just say ... There are many paths to God.


Many paths to God??? Only ONE way, my friend. Only ONE way!!!

Gerry
There are as many paths as there are individuals. God works with us in and through our individual circumstances. It is the belief like Joe Crews that there is only ONE way and that is HIS way that really bothers me. It is this belief that I reject.


People may come from different directions, but my friend, there IS only ONE way, ONE door to God. Jn 14:6, 10:7

Gerry

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#116286 - 03/13/07 05:38 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: David Koot]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32171
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: David Koot
Originally Posted By: Jeannieb43
I'm sure the Lord is too. I just wonder how God feels about those who claim to be His servants misrepresenting Him that way.



One might do well do be very reticent to speak for God as you have here. Each person has his or her concerns and understanding of issues. We would do well to live and let live, and 'quench not the Spirit.' As for the book, I, too, read it quite a few years ago. While my reaction was mixed, I did recognize some areas of concern which I, also, have seen. So, as with many books, there is good, and there is not so good. Hang onto the good, and recognize the not so good. But, beware of judging Joe Crews and his ministry! The ministry he founded has done and is doing wonderful things for God. None of us is perfect, including, I'm sure, Joe Crews, including, as well, myself.

Dave



Dave ... please read in context what Jeannie said ...

She said that the Lord is sympathetic to my reaction. I personally believe the Lord is sympathetic to all of our reactions on this earth no matter if our reactions are right or wrong. He is sympathetic to the struggles we have to go through. This is just one of them. The Lord is sympathetic to all of our problems. Hearing something that is repulsive to us is a temptation to judge the person harshly. I do not want to judge Joe Crews harshly. But I do admit it is a temptation. And the Lord IS sympathetic to the temptations that we are exposed to.
I believe the Lord wants to take away all these temptations soon. And they will be taken away when He comes in the Clouds.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#116290 - 03/13/07 06:08 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
David Koot Offline
Craftsman


Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 3543
Loc: N38d14.516m, W122d37.982m
Originally Posted By: Redwood
]

Yes ... Alden is a wonderful man . . . I learned some valuable lessons from him. I respect him greatly.


I heard Alden Thompson at camp meeting one year. After his presentation, I asked him some pointed questions. I believe that some of his teachings--the teachings I heard--are extremely dangerous, and could be the cause of Adventists who buy into them, being lost during the time of the mark of the beast.

Dave

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#116291 - 03/13/07 06:22 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: David Koot]
Gail Offline

Mom to lots of chickies


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 29893
Loc: Buon giorno, Principessa
I know of one person (who I just talked to on the phone) who did not read his book, lost her faith in EGW and is now out of the church. She was one who I feel could have benefitted from it

He has some good points addressing those who are angry and who judge others
_________________________
Gail

A heart set on love will do no wrong- Confucius

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17

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#116292 - 03/13/07 07:14 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Gail]
David Koot Offline
Craftsman


Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 3543
Loc: N38d14.516m, W122d37.982m
Gail, the danger I see is that any given group of people can have 'sacred cows.' If someone questions or challenges those sacred cows, then there is wrath upon the head of such a person! Alden Thompson and Joe Crews both could be sacred cows, depending on who you are talking to. Neither should be. I personally happen to think that Alden Thompson is by far the more dangerous of the two, but others may disagree. C'est la vie. By the way, another example of that is Danny OR Linda. Each has supporters who have lionized her or him, and who are swift to pounce upon dissenters.

Dave


Edited by David Koot (03/13/07 07:23 PM)

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#116293 - 03/13/07 08:16 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Stan Jensen]
Taylor Offline
Sold Out to Jesus


Registered: 12/24/04
Posts: 2666
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen
That book was a 'hot seller' in the 1980 and 1990, it is still popular with some ethnic people from out side of North America...

My Church has to be big enough to have those who hold those convictions for themself with out being mocked by those who don't. I have seen both the right and the left bash those who believe different.

We must be a Just Church, and allow religious liberty inside of our Church as well.


Amen Stan! I heard a speaker this weekend say the following "Some of you out there are just waiting for the "shaking" to take place so certain people can be shaken out. The conservatives know that the liberals will be shaken out so that the church will be pure and the liberals are sure the conservatives will be shaken out because they are so narrow minded. Instead it should pain both the liberal and the conservative that ANYONE be shaken out. We should love each other so much that we wouldn't want ANYONE to be shaken out."

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#116294 - 03/13/07 08:28 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Taylor]
Clio Offline
The King's Daughter


Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 2748
Loc: Alaska
Erhm... at the risk of being deemed a heretic... how do we know for SURE that it's the SDA church aloneout of which the shaking out will occur? How do we know it's know the full and complete Body of Christ from which some will be shaken and thus lost?

Or is only the SDA church the full and complete Body from which the shaking will occur?
_________________________
A heart where He alone has first place.


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#116296 - 03/13/07 08:33 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Clio]
Gail Offline

Mom to lots of chickies


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 29893
Loc: Buon giorno, Principessa
I thought that in addition to the shaking out there would be a influx from all over as a result of the glory from the message of the Rev.18 angel...

So yeah, Clio, I think that would include those you are referring to :)
_________________________
Gail

A heart set on love will do no wrong- Confucius

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17

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#116297 - 03/13/07 08:47 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Clio]
David Koot Offline
Craftsman


Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 3543
Loc: N38d14.516m, W122d37.982m
Originally Posted By: Clio
Erhm... at the risk of being deemed a heretic... how do we know for SURE that it's the SDA church aloneout of which the shaking out will occur? How do we know it's know the full and complete Body of Christ from which some will be shaken and thus lost?

Or is only the SDA church the full and complete Body from which the shaking will occur?


Without a doubt, throughout history, some have fallen away from belief in Christ, in various communions. However, the remnant church of Bible prophecy stands as unique. There is only one remnant church. The other churches, the 'harlot daughters,' are described as Babylon. While God is interested in all the churches, the remnant church is the 'sole object' of His greatest care, "the apple of His eye." The remnant church is what God calls people to unite with, as they come out of Babylon. The remnant church, the Seventh-day Adventist church, will go through the shaking, the final crisis, and will stand until the day Jesus returns. Those who fall away from that church, and do not repent, will receive the mark of the beast.

Dave

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#116302 - 03/13/07 09:40 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: David Koot]
Parade Orange Offline



Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1986
Loc: hopefully in Church and not on...
wearing Pastel hued shirts!!!!

aha!!!!

I am going to tell all my gay friends to show up at church wearing gray and muted colour shirts to throw off the Joe Crew's Zealots off!

Who would have dreamed it would be so easy!

looks like watermelon,salman, and light beige are still gay colours and cant be worn by straights without a good old SDA batting an eye and questioning their reprobate status.

and what about woman wearing pantsuits ???
that threw me off!

I dont recall that garment nailing in the coffin of my homosexualty.
_________________________
All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD
"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25
That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.

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#116303 - 03/13/07 09:42 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Parade Orange]
Parade Orange Offline



Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1986
Loc: hopefully in Church and not on...
its so hard to take conservatism seriously
_________________________
All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD
"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25
That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness.

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#116308 - 03/13/07 11:23 PM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista


Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 26573
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Anyone that doesn't know who Joe Crews was must be either very new to Adventism or very sheltered.

I had a strong, besetting sin I struggled with in college that Brother Crews helped me overcome. He was a powerful preacher and a man of principle. I had the honor of hearing one of his final sermons before he died.

I am not as conservative as he and I do not agree with all the positions he took. However I am sure he forgot more about Biblical Christianity than I hope to ever learn. Many of his classic sermons can be heard on Amazing Facts websites and each of us could learn from them. While some of his examples in "Creeping Compromise" maybe odd or outdated, the basic premise is truth. Satan gets us through compromise. Those that doubt it might take note of what they permit themselves to watch on the television.
_________________________
Construction Missionary... Find me at www.facebook.com/shane.linder

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#116316 - 03/14/07 12:02 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: David Koot]
Tom Wetmore Offline
Latitudinarian


Registered: 06/21/00
Posts: 6977
Loc: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Originally Posted By: David Koot
I heard Alden Thompson at camp meeting one year. After his presentation, I asked him some pointed questions. I believe that some of his teachings--the teachings I heard--are extremely dangerous, and could be the cause of Adventists who buy into them, being lost during the time of the mark of the beast.


Really now! I am a bit puzzled. How exactly is this all that different from what you chastised Jeannie about?!?! Don't you think following your own advise might be in order...

Originally Posted By: David Koot
One might do well do be very reticent to speak for God as you have here. Each person has his or her concerns and understanding of issues. We would do well to live and let live, and 'quench not the Spirit.'... So, as with many books, there is good, and there is not so good. Hang onto the good, and recognize the not so good. But, beware of judging [Alden Thompson] and his ministry! ... None of us is perfect,...


Tom
angelnot
_________________________
"Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good."
"Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal."
"I love God only as much as the person I love the least."
*Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth.
(And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)

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#116319 - 03/14/07 12:14 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Tom Wetmore]
David Koot Offline
Craftsman


Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 3543
Loc: N38d14.516m, W122d37.982m
Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

How exactly is this all that different from what you chastised Jeannie about


I will quote the statements by Jeannie which I referred to, then follow them with my statement which you quoted. I think the difference is clear, but if not, let me know and I should be glad to specify:

(Jeannie) "I'm sure the Lord is too. I just wonder how God feels about those who claim to be His servants misrepresenting Him that way."

(Dave) "I believe that some of his teachings--the teachings I heard--are extremely dangerous, and could be the cause . . ."

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#116322 - 03/14/07 12:39 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
David Koot Offline
Craftsman


Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 3543
Loc: N38d14.516m, W122d37.982m
Originally Posted By: Redwood


He says that mixed swimming is a sin.

Wearing of pantsuits by women has caused borderline homosexuals to go over the line into perversion p.43 Oh ... and also men who wear Pastel hued shirts.

And wearing of rings is a "sin against the church" p.72

Last but not least ....

"The control of appetite is the basic victory which must be gained, through the power of Christ, to redeem the tragic indulgence of our first parents. This is the victory which every child of Adam must claim in order to be saved" p.112

I have to admit that this type of Adventist material makes me embarrassed.


Embarrassed? The call to holy living and high standards is something to be pleased about. Joe Crews is not unique in Christian circles in the stand he has taken here. Some of the details I do not agree with, but the general focus has valid points, which many other Christians, in various communions, would support. For example:

Mixed swimming? I dunno either way. Many sincere Christians in other denominations would say that mixed swimming is not good. I have heard some of them. As for what God has said about it . . . would have to see some references about that one. What does the Bible or SOP have to say?

Pantsuits? I would disagree with J. Crews on that one. Nothing in Scripture. BTW I understand the Scriptural reference to cross-dressing to be exactly that--intentional cross-dressing, with the intent to dress like the opposite sex.

Wearing of rings? The Bible does speak against the wearing of ornaments, gold, jewelry, etc. And yes, since the door was opened wider back in 1986, the 'simple wedding band' has given way to the full panoply of jewelry. No qualitative difference. If you're gonna do one, you might as well do them all.

Control of appetite? Important, and foundational to victory over other areas of temptation. He who rules his stomach is better equipped to rule the whole person. During the time of trouble, some will be lost because of appetite.

So, yes, it is GOOD for SOMEONE to be concerned about stuff like this. Even though we may not agree with every detail, the direction is valid.

No doubt, Joe Crews was ridiculed by many in his day, and perhaps by even more today. That may be something to be embarrassed about. Perhaps people in the church today ARE more worldly. Be careful about ridiculing those who sound the trumpet in alarm. Remember that Noah was ridiculed as well.

Dave


Edited by David Koot (03/14/07 12:43 AM)

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#116325 - 03/14/07 01:54 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Shane]
Nan Offline
Benevolent Physician


Registered: 04/07/00
Posts: 8274
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Originally Posted By: Shane
Anyone that doesn't know who Joe Crews was must be either very new to Adventism or very sheltered......



...or not come from North America - I am not new to Adventism and certainly not very sheltered, but I would have been hard pressed to identify Mr/Pastor Crew's claim to fame.

As I (a) wear a wedding ring and (b) wear trousers most of the time I would probably be regarded as a lost cause anyway :(

On a more serious note, is this another example of trying to impose the culture of one group onto another? There are parts of the world where wearing trousers is normal, modest and appropriate (the Pakistani silwar-qameez comes to mind ) and from all I have ever read the North American church has always had shown a lot more angst over the wearing of wedding rings than the church in Europe or Australasia.

I am not trying to deny, deride or down play the conviction of this man....but sometimes we do need to take a wider view.

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#116326 - 03/14/07 03:04 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
LifeHiscost Offline



Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 10939
Loc: Western United States
Originally Posted By: Redwood

Last but not least ....

"The control of appetite is the basic victory which must be gained, through the power of Christ, to redeem the tragic indulgence of our first parents. This is the victory which every child of Adam must claim in order to be saved" p.112

I have to admit that this type of Adventist material makes me embarrassed.


I'm sure this must have been similar reasoning when Eve mulled over in her mind the words spoken by the serpent, "Thou shalt not surely die".
And having been an Adventist for over 45 years, I can assure you that it is more like "galloping compromise" now as opposed to "creeping compromise".
This , of course, is not meant to define where creeping ends and galloping begins, only the difference between then as opposed to now.
I do wonder why one would continue to belong to an organization of which they were embarrassed.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16 NASB

"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels." Mark 8:38 NKJV
Regards!! flower
_________________________
Lift Jesus up!!

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#116327 - 03/14/07 03:31 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Woody]
LifeHiscost Offline



Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 10939
Loc: Western United States
Originally Posted By: Redwood
It made me so angry that an Adventist could write such garbage.


Referring to the underlined, Redwood, I ask myself if this has anything to do with the influence that guides the pathway chosen.

"...for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God." James 1:20 NASB
Regards!! flower

_________________________
Lift Jesus up!!

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#116328 - 03/14/07 04:00 AM Re: Joe Crews ... Creeping Compromise [Re: Stan Jensen]
LifeHiscost Offline



Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 10939
Loc: Western United States
Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

My Church has to be big enough to have those who hold those convictions for themself with out being mocked by those who don't. I have seen both the right and the left bash those who believe different.

We must be a Just Church, and allow religious liberty inside of our Church as well.


Well put, Stan. I'm not so sure that a holy war started by Adventists, or any other religious persuasion, would accomplish any more nor less than has been evident down through history, of which the crucifixion of Christ revealed the epitome of personal assault of bigot against Truth.

"Anyone who shows no loving-kindness will have no loving-kindness shown to him when he is told he is guilty. But if you show loving-kindness, God will show loving-kindness to you when you are told you are guilty." James 2:13 NLV
Regards!! flower
_________________________
Lift Jesus up!!

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