Shane, a long time ago I remember reading that former Adventists, and even former SDA pastors or Bible teachers, would become our worst enemies. Ellen White said the same thing. And once, as a kid, I saw a play based on Mary Kay's little book about the end-times. I could hardly imagine such a thing happening-- I mean being ridiculed and quetioned harshly by former SDA. But now I can understand it completely, sad to say. I "see" so many who talk as if they hate the Sabbath and virtually everything Adventists represent. And almost all of these used to be one of us, at least in name.

See GC 608-- "When Sabbathkeepers ae brought before the courts to answer for their faith, these (former Sabbath-keeping] apostates are the most efficient agents of Satan to misrepresent and accuse them, and by false reports and insinuations to stir up the rulers against them." Imagine your shock when you see a famous SDA pastor or maybe your Bible teacher coming to interrogate you and telling you how wrong you are about the Sabbath, etc.

Ellen White makes statements about how God is not the only one who wants to see people baptized and joining the SDA church. She says Satan also likes to see unconverted people joining because he knows he can then work through them to influence others.

I think it's just so important that we all be sure we are kind and loving toward everyone so we cannot possibly be blamed for someone's bitterness. No doubt all of us probably have reasons we could be bitter if we didn't let the Holy Spirit change our hearts in order to be forgiving and loving toward everyone.

Ellen White must have been inspired to write something like that.

I spoke to a lady last week who said she cannot read ellen white and threw all her books away 25-years ago. She also questioned some parts of the Bible. The adventist church's answer to this woman? They made her an "elder."


True story,


olger

(I can't put into words how weak the church is in doing such things. It leaves me speechless).

dear brothers and friends

Thank you for your excellent comments. This is the only place where I got this kind of feedback out of the 5 different forums where I have posted this material (01 in Spanish). But it doesn't matter. My main concern is that the material be read by as many people as possible.

Well, among the things Bro. Shane listed that are not "salvation decisive" I would add believing in the investigative judgment, because the subject of God's judgment has so many different interpretations in the Christian field. So, who has the final word on how exactly God will proceed judging everyone of us and all the world? Nobody will lose his/her salvation for believing that the judgment will be this way or that way.

Actually there is a false propaganda regarding SDA's living wringing their hands in anxiety for not knowing if their names have been scrutinized in the Heavenly Sanctuary. . . Do any of you guys live under that stressing sentiment? The true is that in 41 years of SDA Church affiliation I never met one single brother or sister who harbors these terrible feelings. . .

About Ellen White, yes, there are some hard things to understand in her writings, but if we examine the material of ex-Evangelical pastor Dan Barker who became an atheist, and the way he disputes the Bible, exploring its supposed "contradictions", then we will understand how far we are from understanding how inspiration really works. The problems and contradictions these anti-Christian folks point in the Bible are about the same these critics of Ellen White present regarding her writings.

Now, I think that one reason many people leave the church to enter these "new alliance" movements is because they read that text of Jesus telling those who want to follow Him that there is a cross to bear. But Jesus doesn't specify what material this cross is made of--wood, iron, gold, silver, plumb? Then they reason: "Well, since Jesus didn't tell what material the cross should be made of, who knows one made of Styrofoam wouldn't do? After all, if we paint it as a genuine one, who will tell the difference?"

And the number of people carrying Styrofoam crosses around is legion. . .

Have a nice week.

God bless you all.

But not believing in the Investigative Judgment has led many people to finally give up completely on Ellen White as a true prophet, and then to give up on the Sabbath, and finally give up on Christianity itself. Also, since Ellen White teaches very clearly about the Investigative Judgment, if she was "mistaken" about it, then I personally doubt she can be trusted about anything. The Bible says if she was wrong about things she said, it proves she was a false prophet and as such she should be killed. That is very strong language yet true.

Do you believe the book, The Great Controversy, particularly the chapters, "What is the Sanctuary," " In the Holy of Holies," "Facing Life's Record"?



Yes, most of this is false propaganda but at the same time it must be admitted that as a church we have not always done very well at communicating the truth of the Pre-Advent Judgment. As I grew up SDA, I had a good friend who worried constantly about the "time of trouble," and about his salvation. He would ask about the time of trouble several times a month, and when we would assure him of the Bible promises as well as the promises of God found in Ellen White's writings, he would be fine for a while; but then he would ask the same questions again. This boy eventually developed serious mental problems, but I am sure they were not the result of his constant worrying about the end-times. Rather, it is more likely that he worried about the end-times because he was emotionally and mentally unstable and therefore could not totally grasp what we were telling him. But it goes to show we need to make sure we are communicating clearly because we never know if people have emotional and mental problems or if they understand what we are saying.



Totally agree.



That's very well put. Thank you. I'll have to remember the Styrofoam crosses.

I am amazed at vehement attitude of some against the church, and wonder if some of it has to do with their spirituality before they left.

I fear a lot for those who seem rigid in their beliefs to the point where they do not tolerate others who might not agree or be at their stage of spirituality. I've been around many who notice others' sins and point them out, as if they are tuned to do so.

The reason this worries me is because:

1) I wonder if in fact they are inwardly as hard on themselves as they are on others, and therefore carrying a huge burden, and

2) If one is too rigid, then when confronted with better information or reality which is not their truth (but might be the real truth) there is the possibility that their faith will be at the least sorely tested and at the worst completely disarmed. I have seen people on the extreme conservative just get tired or discouraged and throw out the whole faith.

There should be JOY in our walk with the Lord. He is a God of mercy and blessings to His children. We should not be walking in bitterness, especially if we know we have such light

Gail ... you bring up some good points and then I think you answer them.



Those with the bad attitude of the church probably started with good sprituality but then met up with some of those with the attitude that you have described as "rigid" and that do not tolerate those at a different stage of spirituality. They have all their sins pointed out to them and thus are made to feel they do not have salvation unless they are good enough which they have just learned they are not. That would destroy anyone's "good" spirituality.

HOW SAD. But this has been my observation also. When the focus is on works ... this is what happens. When the focus is on abiding then you get both faith and works.