Why must I be forgiven for my sins by You, who has committed sins far greater than those of which I am capable? I have not unleashed a flood, killing the entire planet's population save for a handful of people who worship me unquestioningly. I have not asked a man to sacrifice his son to prove his loyalty to me. I have not allowed another man to be tormented, causing his family and property to be destroyed, solely so I could prove to someone that the man would remain devoted to me. I might have told my boss I was sick and went skiing instead. But how can mine be the greater sin requiring forgiveness?

In a related question, why do people worship a God who would kill millions who do not follow Him, with floods or fire rained down from above, but those same worshipping people will cry ‘Madman’ when a country's leader eliminates millions in a program.



And one more question, why does your personality seem to depend upon the personality of Your followers? People who have a kind, caring personality tend to believe You are a kind and caring God. Those people who are hard and angry tend to believe in an angry and vengeful God.


Just wondering.... btw, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or demeaning of God.

Good honest question, I had to read them a couple of times to capture what you were saying...

Yes, great questions, and deserving of serious answers.

I'd begin by asking you what you would do if you were God and loved everyone in the world yet knew that every single person on it was going to die forever without any hope if they didn't learn to obey, trust, and love God and His laws.

Hmmm and why should I trust you to speak for God John?

mel

Firstly, with the Flood, the entire planet was given 120 years to repent....

Had they done so, there would most likely have been no flood. Witness what happened at Ninevah when Jonah was sent to warn of impending disaster that could only be diverted by repentence. Nothing happened because the city repented. Jonah was peeved indeed!

Noah built and preached for 120 years. In 120 years only Noah and his family were freely worshipping Abba and following His Will.

Unlike the Adversary, Abba will never force someone to worship Him... He wants only those who will freely love Him and worship Him as the Creator.

As for Abraham... although he was asked to sacrifice his son, what was really happening in those chapters is almost totally alien to our Western way of thinking because we do not recognize the validity of the Blood Covenant. Abraham did. He knew, and Isaac also knew, that what was being asked was an honor beyond comprehension. Isaac knew from the moment he was circumsized that his life, just as Abraham's life, was forfeit should Abba ever require it. That is part of the nature of a Blood Covenant.

Faith is what was demonstrated by both Abraham and Isaac. Both men knew that Abba had promised to make them patriarchs of nations. Not just one nation, but NATIONS. Therefore, somehow, someway, Isaac would be restored to Abraham, either before, or after, the knife came down. Either way, their lives were already Abba's to do with as He chose. The Blood Covenant symbolized by their circumcisions was already in force.

Job? Ahhhh Job was and is the amazing proof that no matter what befall us, we are always free to choose to worship someone other than Abba. Job is the amazing proof that the Adversary has the power to attack us through natural forces of weather, disease, even to reaching out and actively causing death... and Abba in His goodness and mercy extends His protection round about us for the asking.

Job proves that even in the most paramount choice of our life, to whom will our allegiance belong?, Abba will not force us... no matter how it looks, no matter how many deceptions, trials, or snares the enemy brings, Abba will not force us. Instead, He offers us His strength to bear the burden, never leaving us, nor forsaking us, and offering us His peace.

This whole world is a battleground, and an aberration. We must be fit to live in Abba's kingdom, and that means being loyal to the Creator. Not to those who attempt to usurp His sovereign right to govern.

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure there must be some kind of mental illness or something... I mean... a Creator could choose to be despotic, capricious, and cruel, simply because He created.

Instead, He offers us every possible opportunity to come to Him, choosing freely His way or some other way.

Clio

I don't think anyone on CA is "speaking for God," Mel. What people are doing is reflecting on what the Bible says about God in order to find answers to questions like the ones charis asked. All views are welcome here.

I don't have the answers, and I'm not going to pretend that I have even part of the answers...in fact, I don't think these questions can be easily answered with convenient one-size-fits-all answers.

But I would like to add my voice to the questions.

I recall the late Mother Teresa saying something like...God would have a lot more friends, if He treated those He already has a bit better.

aldona

It seems to me those answers to those particular questions are key to this entire war. After all, it was begun as a war of character assassination, and those questions go directly to the Character of Abba. Either He is Love and all things He does springs from Love, or the Adversary is right.

It seems crucial to me, to have true answers to those questions. Otherwise, how can anyone possibly know that no matter what, Abba is trustworthy?

Abba treats those He loves with Love. We may not always allow Him to work His Will in our lives because we cannot see His View of things, but I'm absolutely convinced He blesses and shepherds my every single step.

And I can say that regardless of the trials I've been led through. Each person's pain is different, but my life and my walk has not been easy. In spite, or because of, I don't know. But I do know that He is an on-time Abba, Who never makes mistakes.

How much of our discontent is of our own making?

Clio

I think the answers to these questions - and I am not presumptuous enough to think I have them - depends on the frame of reference of the questioner. Asking from the current, earthbound point of view or the cosmic, eternal point of view.

I am aware this will open up a whole new series of questions, but it is my starting point when I try to make sense of the way things are.

I think that one possible answer could be that God wants our attention so that He can guide our lives. Sometime He has to do something very drastic in order to gain our attention. We are all different. What grabs my attention is probably something so very different to what would grab your attention. And sometimes God really has to S H O U T in order for us to even begin to take notice! Sometimes I am too engrossed with the problems of everyday living when all He wants is the OK to let Him help with those problems.

I am just so slow!!

Beryl

im blessed! Thanks GOd

Thank you, Beryl - and Nan - for those perceptive answers.

Someday we'll be able to sit at Jesus' feet and ask Him these very same questions. Then it'll all be made clear.

Until then, I picture all of us as actors on the stage of the universe, being carefully watched by the inhabitants of other worlds, to see whether or not a people on this planet Earth can - or will - follow God simply because it's the right thing to do, rather than for any perks or any temporal blessings they might receive.

Good Old Job did it. I hope I can too.

Interesting that you should come to a Christian forum to ask such questions, Charis. It seems to prove one thing at least, that you prefer to see what the followers of those who follow Him, the questions, especially in the light of the way the questions are asked. For if it be true that the Supreme God of the universe were guilty of what the questions describe, then the answers from His followers would be fearful of giving any answers that might bring that same wrath down upon their own heads, in case that questioned god might be offended.
That's why I like to go back to the Word to make a response from what He says about Himself. Then if my ideas are incorrect, for whatever reason, He is able to clarify my misconceptions.

"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." 1 John 4:8 KJV

"Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked? says the Lord, and not rather that he should turn from his evil way and return [to his God] and live?" Ezekiel 18:23 AMP

"Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord GOD, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’ " Ezekiel 33:11 NKJV
"....for I the Lord your God am...God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me,
...showing mercy and steadfast love to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments."Exodus 20:5-7
AMP
"Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?"
Malachi 2:10 KJV
Blessings!

LHC said:

**raises eyebrows**

This is a forum. Shall it only address *comfortable* topics?

I could go to a different, non-Christian forum to ask my questions. They would be most happy to talk about my questions. Would that be better?

Actually in reading over my previous answer I didn't read anything that indicated another place to ask the questions would be a better place. The point I wished to make was that in coming to this forum for answers you have already made the decision some of C/A can be trusted to reveal something about God that is worthwhile to know about Him. Considering your answer I would suppose you can see the reasoning, despite some of the free-for-alls that have taken place on some forums threads.

Often God is judged to be like His children, and that is true about those who are changed into His likeness, but none of us on this earth have been fully changed as yet. Your searching indicates you still want the change He is willing to give. Perhaps you would only have me give you an answer with which you are comfortable.

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" 1 Cor 15:51 KJV
Blessings!

I'm not taking the bait.

Wow. I love that someone can be so frank on this forum. You all are so genuine and respectful. I am in awe!

O.K.



"Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, saying,
Gird up your loins now like a man; I will demand of you, and you answer Me.
Will you also annul (set aside and render void) My judgment? Will you condemn Me [your God], that you may [appear] righteous and justified?
Have you an arm like God? Or can you thunder with a voice like His?
[Since you question the manner of the Almighty's rule] deck yourself now with the excellency and dignity [of the Supreme Ruler, and yourself undertake the government of the world if you are so wise], and array yourself with honor and majesty.
Pour forth the overflowings of your anger, and look on everyone who is proud and abase him;
Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low, and tread down the wicked where they stand [if you are so able, Job].
[Bury and] hide them all in the dust together; [and] shut them up [in the prison house of death].
[If you can do all this, Job, proving yourself of divine might] then will I [God] praise you also [and acknowledge that] your own right hand can save you." Job 40:6-14 AMP

"THEN JOB said to the Lord,
I know that You can do all things, and that no thought or purpose of Yours can be restrained or thwarted.
[You said to me] Who is this that darkens and obscures counsel [by words] without knowledge? Therefore [I now see] I have [rashly] uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
[I had virtually said to You what You have said to me:] Hear, I beseech You, and I will speak; I will demand of You, and You declare to me.
I had heard of You [only] by the hearing of the ear, but now my [spiritual] eye sees You.
Therefore I loathe [my words] and abhor myself and repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:1-6 AMP Brackets, parenthesis, theirs LHC

"Now therefore...go to My servant Job and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept [his prayer] that I deal not with you after your folly, in that you have not spoken of Me the thing that is right, as My servant Job has.
So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did as the Lord commanded them; and the Lord accepted [Job's prayer].
And the Lord turned the captivity of Job and restored his fortunes, when he prayed for his friends; also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before." Job 42:8-10 AMP Regards!

Somebody doesn't understand what "sin" is. IMO 'sin' is anything which separates you from God. That's why the center of the word "SIN" is "I".... God cannot separate Himself from Himself therefore he cannot 'sin'.

With a cursory view that may seem to be apparent (the underlined). However when Jesus was crucified and as well lived His life for us, it would have been no wonder that He did not sin if He was unable. Some of what made the feat beyond our comprehension is that He not only was God and could sin but chose not to, in order that we might live for eternity.
However this also reveals an almost incomprehensible truth, in becoming sin for us He was separated from the Father and died the second death for us that we might live eternally righteous for Him.

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."
Hebrews 4:15 KJV

"...For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him..." 2 Cor 5:21 KJV

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; " John 14:9 KJV

"I and my Father are one." John 10:30 KJV

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high..." Hebrews 1:3 KJV
Regards!

I love getting out on this limb with you! Such a GOOD question!

I have asked a similar one regarding my sin versus the sins of others against me!!!! and found some rather interesting answers....but that is material for another thread!!!

From where I stand with my feet stuck here on the earth looking up into the dark night sky it would be really easy for me to raise my fist and shake it toward heaven as I ask your question!

But then I would have to sit down and listen! Well, I guess I wouldn't HAVE to! but there is something about shaking ones fist at God that makes me feel the need to!!!

Maybe I will go do that tonight and get back with you!!!

Oops....I had to let go the branch!!!

The position in which I view this question must first be part of the anser. For to live here on earth in this human body is to be in an entirely different position than if I could see God face to face and know the reality of His kingdom. But for now that is my reality! And it is there I have to start.

I have noticed that my life is more like Alice in the looking Glass! So much of my perception is backwards, a mirror image of what is God's reality. At least it sure seems that way when I read much of scripture! This question makes me feel that over again. Human Words are SO inadequate to describe something as huge as GOD. I refuse to put him in MY or anyone elses box!!!

 Quote:

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 1 Cor 13:12

SOooooo.....Starting from where I sit I have to factor in the backward and often upside state of my world and thus my perspective and how that could change anything and everything.

But....God knows we are dealing with the mirror thing and the dark glass thing. Sometimes I think He says what He does and makes it look like He is doing the things that are being done just because of that knowledge. Therefore there IS an answer to it that we can also understand!!!! But often it takes changing the way we look at it!

The fact that a battle is raging is obvious!!! The fact that there WILL be casualties is also a no brainer!!! It is important to know who is on whose side and what it is they stand for. (something that is NOT always obvious or easy to figure out!)

I love reading David's cries to God in Psalms! David was a master at the fist shaking thing!!! But he also knew that he HAS to sit and listen afterward. So as I was listening to David's words last night as recorded in my Listeners Bible I fell asleep with the words below ringing in my ears! And it has started to let me see the edges of the mirror I am stuck in. I know now that there IS something more that I am NOT understanding. It is only a start but then we have to start somewhere!

The pronoun "he" gets a little mixed up in the 7th Chapter of Psalms but I am pretty sure David is talking about the wicked when he says:

 Quote:

14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.

As an entity that can read hearts and minds only God has the information that would allow the judgement right! I have no doubt that God is capable of destruction in any form chosen but I started to wonder as I listened to this Psalm if God doesn't most often just let the wicked hang themselves! Not that the wicked are going to recognize it as the natural cause of their own actions.

My next thought was "Now that certainly requires a lot of self condemnation to get to the truth!" Not a nice position to be in! Maybe God simply decides to go ahead and take the blame for the stupidity so that perhaps the condemnation isn't so greatly felt. Of course this opens God up to Anger!!! Don't know which one is worse but I do know that God KNOWS that intense feelings will arise when dealing with this stuff! But I figure God can take that! At least we are feeling!

In the end...those who fight against God will eventually sit down and listen!

Or...they will destroy themselves fighting against this powerful force.

Would it really be to our benefit if God Could change the fact of all the powerful realities of His character. Is His mercy enough to keep us safe?

Does God need forgiveness for that Character? If so what greater power is there that could give it? And what happens to us less powerful beings when we throw ourselves onto God's mercy? Unfortunately even that question relies on the eternal understanding! And the war we are living is all we know.

Somewhere between our Alice in the Looking Glass World and the Eternal life we have been promised we get a glimpse of it all through God's eyes. Only then do we gain the needed perspective. Only then does it start to make a shred of sense!

Wow! Life, do you not know that Chris is an Christian Adventist? Do you not understand where she is coming from in her questions?

Sometimes, our lives are pruned in such a way where we will question everything....our faith, our loves, our lives...it is literally feeling like you are going out on a limb and are about to jump....blindfolded....

And blind faith, Life, is not a growing faith...A growing faith is one where you learn trust...and you have to learn to trust again....especially when it feels that all you have had previously, was a sham, a faux, and not necessiarily true...but not all was false either...And you have to know the difference...

Chris, am I close here? Is this where you are coming from?

If it is, then I would say this much....learn to trust again...Sometimes, God prunes grape vines in such a way that they will produce MORE fruit...

Of course, Chris, if I am way off base here...ignore this post...

Neil, that's exactly where I was coming from...
Thanks... I sometimes think nobody "gets" what I'm trying to say...
And I think to myself, "why bother to say anything?" But then, someone (or someONES) comes along and, VOILA, Hey! Someone understands!!

C/A has such a great team and membership.

Charis,

I'm getting you loud and clear! I have the very same questions myself!

Carrie

[Taking low bow] I understand...as long as someone writes carefully, and clearly, a good reader can get the gist...Your writing was clear, and carefully thought out....I caught your drift...Just listen to what I said, though....Pruning is a rough on the person, but the benefits are wonderful....

Those are great questions that can never be answered in full by mere mortals. If we could answer them, then probably we would be God, and we certainly are not that! But just a few thoughts come to mind:

1) The Flood happened because people had turned so incredibly evil that the only way to SAVE humanity was to start over. God's mercy gave them 120 years to think about it, and anyone could have gotten on the ark, whether they were unquestioningly obedient or not.

2) The stories of Abraham and Job were about much more than proving loyalty. That was part of it, but there were other issues involved. In Abraham's case, it was a "type" or example of God giving His own Son, so that we would have some inkling of what that was like. Job's story, in my mind, basically is not much different than our entire planet being on display for the universe to see the contrast between God's style of leadership and Satan's style of leadership. God doesn't have to prove anything to anyone, but He does it so that we will obey Him out of love instead of fear. God's actions are to teach us and help us, while Satan just wants to kill us. God asked other prophets to do some strange things, like Hosea, for instance, that were meant as object lessons. I don't understand totally why God does that, but it does seem that the people He chooses to use in that way have a long experience of trusting Him and He knows they are up to the task.

3) God does not and cannot sin. He always does what is best, whether we understand it or not. There are some things that are for God to decide and act on, NOT us ("vengence is mine" for instance), and our little box of understanding may not be able to grasp it, but that in no way means that God sins when He does those things. The reason you or I are not God is because we are VERY capable of doing far worse than anything God has done, and if we were in His shoes, we would absolutely be doing that. I learned a while back not to compare my sins to those of others. Many studies have shown that any of us is capable of the most heinous crimes, given the right circumstances. It is only by the grace of God that we are "good" in any way. We are all sinners to the core, totally selfish by nature. If I look at God instead of other humans, it doesn't take long to see that the measure between God and me is impossibly infinite, while the measure between me and the most evil maniac is a tiny blip.

4) As far as God's personality reflecting our own, I think it is not so much that we are projecting our own personality onto God, which may be true to an extent, but I think moreso we tend to think of God in terms of human authority figures we have had in our lives, such as parents, teachers, pastors, etc. When those authority figures fail miserably at representing God's character to us, it's a difficult, lifetime struggle to see God in a different way. When I can remember that people are basically products of their upbringing, it helps me feel more compassion for their erroneous views and irritating ways. Anyway, I'm sure I have a few of my own, as well.

Btw, I love it that people feel this is a safe place to ask such frank questions.

"Why must I be forgiven for my sins by You, who has committed sins far greater than those of which I am capable?" originally posted by Charis

As I have said before, "God CANNOT commit Sin.....
" Sin is not a 'THING" Sin is an attitude which promotes ME instead of GOD....Anything that gets between ME and GOD is SIN.........God cannot get between himself. Sin is "MYSELFISHNESS"........... God set up the parameters for my relationship to Him and consequently the Universe. I don't have to like it or even understand it...that's the way that it is. All God is asking for is our Trust in Him that His way is superior to ours. He gives us Free Will...(which he does not give to any other creature on this earth)....Then He asks us to surrender that Free Will to Him and let Him do the leading.
Do we trust Him enough to guide us in our journey? Do we trust Him enough when He tells us to 'turn left' to do it when we 'know full well' (?) that 'right' is the 'only ' way to go.?

I'm not sure if this is personality or culture, or even past relationships with the paternal figure.

There are folks that say that God is a loving Father giving gifts to those that request certain things. Well, what if that person grew up with a tragic and poor excuse for a father?

My father was kind and loving and so when I think of God, it is easy for me to see that my heavenly Father is all loving and gracious.
On the other hand, if someone would say that the Holy Spirit was like my mother, a Comfort, it would be a most difficult thing for me to believe that I would even want this part of the Diety in my life because my mother was extremely difficult to live with, putting me down every time I turned around.

Read and talk with Them and you will understand. By beholding, we become changed.

Glad ... You make some good points. God can not sin for sin is separation from God. So God cannot be seperated from Himself.!! Therefore ... He can't sin.

Hmmmmmm.....If Jesus is God, then did not God separate Himself in the form of Jesus? Therefore, God did separate Himself, from Hisself....Interesting thoughts, for as I recall, Jesus 'was made sin for oursakes'....

By logical extension, God could sin...but we understand that He did not sin...therefore, our understanding of sin is wrong....Or at least, this instance of sin...

No God cannot "Sin".... He made up the rules and 'could' change them anytime "He" wished to. Sin is something that relates to created being ie: man/angels/created beings on other planets and their relationship to God. Whatever the three entities of the Godhead do they cannot sin against themselves. Jesus could have when he took on humanity but that was something uniquely different. That part of the "mystery of Godliness we may 'never' undertand.

OK Neil ... with what you have said ... I am now really confused. I fear that I don't know anything. You have made some good points. Where to go with it ... I just don't know. What does "he was made sin for us" mean?

Jesus was both fully God and fully man. Jesus had two wills, two minds, two natures-- all in single individual. He was not two people in one body. What Jesus did, God experienced. It was not God who was hungry or tired or tempted, but God experienced those things as the man Jesus Christ experienced them. Just so, the human Jesus died, but in that death, although God did not die, God experienced what humans experience when we face death and when we die.

Jesus was "made sin for us" in the sense that Jesus Christ became a real human being and was treated by the Father just exactly as if He had personally committed all the sins ever committed in human history so that we may be treated as if we are as righteous as Christ Himself. He truly bore our sins. He was condemned as a sinner in our place so that we can become the righteousness of God in union with Christ. Christ was no make-believe man or make-believer sinner; and neither do we become the make-believe righteousness of God in union with Jesus Christ through faith.

Jesus was made sin for us............. He was able to divide his divinity and his humanity. He did not SIN....but.....with His human nature he could have separated himself from the rest of the Godhead.......like we do when we 'sin'. But.....He did not.

Redwood, don't be confused. Sin is NOT separation from God. We must go to Bible to find that definition.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Separation from God is a result of sin, not sin in itself. The concept of God sinning is meaningless because God is the creator of the law. To put it into human perspective... we paint pictures... right? If we did not like the picture we painted do we have right to erase it? What it we painted a perfect picture and we come back in the morning and the colors just bled and mushed into some abstract ugliness? Is it painter's fault? Is it wrong for him to discard the picture? Does picture have right do deny the author his creative freedom to modify it or to discard it if it does not match the proportion that he intended it to be?

I believe that the fact that we are alive and that God does not barge into our lives bossing us around should tell us something. He has enough respect for us to make our own choices and decide for ourselves. I don't know exactly as to why he wiped the world to give it a fresh start, yet I believe it was serious enough for him to do that to salvage the painting. He could have just wiped everything off and started from scratch and without nobody questioning, and then we would not even have chance to sit here and ask why :).


Chris,


I totally understand where you are coming from. There are numerous questions that I would like God too, and since I'm not God I could only speculate on the answers. Some of those would definitely be

1) If Adam and Eve were like children then why didn't you stop them from touching THE stove like any loving parent would? I understand that love can be found through choice, but guidance should be a part of it. Why did you let vicious dogs go in the sandbox where children where playing? Would any loving parent prevent that? I understand the concept of proving Satan wrong, but what are the costs? Millions of people who are deceived....

2) Why are there contradictions in God's reasoning when giving the law? Such as

... though shall not kill - stone sabbath breakers - kill everyone... including women and children of infidel nations


3) Why would you overlook David's polygamy... as he had many wives, yet make it a big deal when he slept with Bathsheba? Wouldn't polygamous lifestyle be considered as adultery? Does it really matter what cultural norms where back then? I understand the difference, yet in a way having multiple wives is very similar and may have created attitude of infidelity.

2 Samuel 12:7-8 "And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."

Notice that it states that God gave David Saul's wives. These were NOT only for political ties.



I could go on, but the point it that there are many unanswered questions and there will always be. Essentially we know very little. Our collective knowledge is only a spec of universal one. I pray that some day we will have the answers. But I think God left plenty of things behind to let us know that He means not harm to us and that He respects our decisions and treats us like adults, even though we may act like children. Looking at children I learn LOTS about myself. When we take away things that will harm them and they cry I think they view us as unfair too. But we have knowledge that is very hard for them to grasp at a time. As they grow up they appreciate what we have done a bit more

I think this is a very interesting subject that i have been struggling with for quite some times now. These are my views:
The battle between good and evil is about showing that the law of God is good. I agree that Satan is wrong and God is good on this matter. However, in the process i ve found out that God isn t good either. Why order to kill women and children?why killing the loved ones of Job to teach a lesson?The bible states this matter terribly cruel; his loved ones died BUT God was brilliant so he replaced em with other people. How would you feel if God killed your wife and said " well because you stayed loyal, here you ll have a new wife". And why is it that Jesus doesn t do anything to stop some of the sufferings in the world by working through his people?There are plenty of men and women out there that are willing to give up their lives for the lord. I cannot stand understand all of these questions. The only answer i can think of, is that God isn t as great as everybody says he is. Maybe he is selfish and wishes to receive worship. I never follow a God because of his might, that is like becoming friends with the most powerfull men because of their power. As a child i always thought that God cared about every person as much as he did about me and that all of his ways are just. However i can never think of any justification of so many questions. I am glad God doesn t gonna fry me eternally, but he probably isn t going to like what i am saying. I cannot help it, in my view God is a selfish dictator instead of a loving father. Something is blocking my mind so i cannot write out all of my thoughts except that i am truly convinced that God is not just. If i were God i would have done it wayyyyyy better. Everybody who would suffer and came to me, i would give them direct assistence through angelic agencies. I would use other means. It is like we are just object for God, i refuse to live under such a dictatorship. I am glad to go to hell because heaven would be an eternal hell for me. I sacrifice my soul for the sake of fallen victims of the human race who never really had a chance to know God. It is sad for God, because the only people that will be in heaven are those that unconditionally accept all of his ways. I feel so much anger, i cannot help it.....Watch my words those of who are going to heaven...Someday there will be a day when you discover that God is not great at all and then there will be a next order of beings to replace you. I am mentally ill so i hope i ve not offended anyone. sorry for talking like this, can t help expressing my anger.

I don't think you have offended anybody. I think all of us have thought pretty much the same things. At least I have when reading the OT. But I've thought that their had to be some answer's that we haven't looked at. As far as Job is concerned its always been my understanding that its not God that's doing all that to Job. Its God allowing satan to do all. Than I look at what's going on in the world and see that satan is the one that's doing not God. I hope this helps a little. Sometimes its hard to say exactly what's on the mind correctly in a forum setting. When be face to face would be easier.

pkrause

I don't know the answers to all your questions, and I admit I have shared many of your thoughts at different times of my life. Frankly, I believe part of the purpose of this great controversy is for beings all over the universe to be free to ask those types of questions. (A good example of how God's approach differs from Satan's.)

If God intervened to stop suffering in the world, then we and the other beings in the universe would not get the full picture of where sin leads. We are the guinea pigs, and this world is a stage. It's not all about us and our comfort! Yes, God WANTS to save us and has provided a way to do so. But I believe it is important for the record to show the true horror of sin to all the universe.

While I understand your feelings very well, if you think about it, it really does sound childish to say how much better we would do things if we were God. Only God has the full picture, and we truly have no clue. It's like the 3-yr-old spouting off to his parents that if he were in charge, he would make sure the cookie jar was always full. I can imagine God smiling and saying, "OK, sweetie, when you are a big boy and omnipotent and omniscient and omnipresent, then you can do whatever you want."

I too wonder about the many times when God's ways seem harsh to us, but we have to realize that He was speaking to people in language they could understand. In a barbaric culture, such things might not have seemed as harsh as they do to us today. At other times, He needed to do some re-training, and the people had to know that He was serious. I agree with you - I would not have handled some situations as God did. But that does not mean that God was wrong. And if we think about it for very long, we have to realize that most of the time God is very patient with us, and maybe He is trying to teach us to be patient with others and patient in our suffering.

You are not alone - one of the biggest things we all struggle with is trusting God. We think we know better. Why we think that is beyond comprehension, but we all do it daily. God has a lot of work to do to get us ready for eternal life, but He is willing to do it because He loves us. Satan's g