#14470 - 09/20/04 04:29 PM
Silver Spring, we have a problem.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Ya know what??..I wasn't really sure if it was just my personal problem. That I was just spoiled by having one of the best preachers in America before coming to the SDA church.
My perspective and opinion for over 30 years has been that, for the most part, there is much to be desired in the homiletics and education approaches from the pulpit.
Well...I attended a SDA leadership seminar this past sabbath in which there were Union and GC conference level staff. Listening to them make mention of "doldrums in the church", survey results in which the #1 complaint by the people is that they are not getting fed, NCD (natural church development) program conflicts, a ministerial director telling me of his article aimed at pastors..leads me to belive that I am not some unique warped critical psycho always ranting .."please sir, may I have more?" ..like in Oliver.
I was also thinking of the DRUG war/problem....
You know..the one where we constantly hear that what really keeps the drug trade going was the buying by the users and if the demand wasn't out there then the drug supply would go away?
Is the reason why there remains this dumbing down,incompetent, non fat dry milk, shallow soteriology..pulpit famine is because you dopers out there crave cheapo sermons?
What perpetuates this sermon drug satus quo is cowardly carnal, fleshly, worldly, Laodicean churchians...who file by the pastor..after the weekly sermon, shaking hands and lying .."great sermon..Preach".
Have you given up?
Are you so insecure that you can't confront the pastor?
Are you so in love with the world that you just don't care anymore?
One of the influences/effects of cheapo sermons is cheapo sabbath schools. Usually the level of teaching at sabbath school can be tied to the level at the pulpit.
Well...some have to be in the 2nd resurrection...
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#14471 - 09/21/04 05:54 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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I think the problem goes deeper than all that, JB. I think lack of a thorough, vibrant connection to God on a 24/7 daily basis lies at the heart of not having Food to bring to the Table on Sabbath.
I find when I am connected to Spirit (either one!) on a continual basis there is so much revelation, vision, awareness, insight, keys, secrets, mysteries made known, etc. that I never lack for material to share (only perhaps those who would be interested in it and/or respect it).
Likewise when disconnected, I'm a dry well -- you won't get fed, watered or refreshed here ...
Food for thought ...
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#14472 - 09/21/04 05:08 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Thanks for the reply Nico,
Hmm.. does your post mean that the clergy are pots calling the kettle black..that they are guilty of fulfilling Romans 2:1 when they preach on the message of Laodicea?
I don't get what you mean by "either one"
The church might be in better shape if there was a connection for at least 8/7.
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#14473 - 09/21/04 05:39 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Quote:
Hmm.. does your post mean that the clergy are pots calling the kettle black..that they are guilty of fulfilling Romans 2:1 when they preach on the message of Laodicea?
I don't see any indication of that in my post. I think you are pulling that from your own mind somewhere since there is nothing even remotely suggestive of that line of thought in what I wrote. However if you are looking for a response, no, I do not think it is hypocrisy to preach about a problem or need one recognizes in oneself. If I recognize the truth of the warning to Laodicea as applies to ME, that does not make me a hypocrite or judgmental if I also recognize how the truth of that warning applies to us all. If anything it's Romans 2:1 in the positive aspect, or to quote the old childhood retort, "it takes one to know one." We don't call it judgmental when the dry alcoholic is able to pontificate about the recovery process and benefits to those currently enslaved to alcohol, do we?
Quote:
I don't get what you mean by "either one"
Spiritual connectivity is productive of spiritual riches in the form of insight, awareness, revelation, vision, energy, you know, all the products of connectivity, regardless of what spirit one is connected to or with. Spiritual law is pretty much the same anywhere you go -- you don't get the Current flowing through you without Plugging Into the Source, regardless of Who/What that Source is. It is the Banalization and Mundanity against which this fight is to be fought, and it can happen to anyone in any religious persuasion, capiche? A Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Sufi, Jainist, Taoist, Buddhist, Wiccan, Druid, Shintoist, Shaman, Satanist, who does not remain connected to their source of spiritual power will likewise dry up -- the phenomenon and problem of fighting off banalization, mundanity, spiritual entropy, is not exclusive to the Christian, in other words. (perhaps I ought to have said "any" one instead of "either" one).
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#14475 - 09/21/04 09:05 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Nico,
Now I understand you on the either one part.
Also..I was enlarging on implications on the Rom 2:1 issue..Thanks for your elaboration. Good point.
Your 24/7 reminded me of the numerous times when the pulpit speaker would say..."Keep your eyes on Jesus" or it is necessary to spend considerable devotional time with Jesus to be a victorious Christian...etc..etc..of the like.
If the speaker is setting the example with his message of a 1/7...3/7 churchian..then what influence does anyone expect...????
This week's SS lesson deals with the WORLD...
The GC conference ministerial teacher who taught some of this this past sabbath..mentioned at least 2 significant points...oneness(unity) and joy...and that if the church experience doesn't bring joy...the people will attempt to get it from what the world has to offer.
Edited by JimBob7 (09/21/04 09:19 PM)
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#14476 - 09/21/04 09:13 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: Billy Dennis]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Mind you, I'm sometimes a little worried about what I'm revealing about myself by the topics I choose to preach on at church! 
Hey..do I ever know what you mean...
Here is something for you..
Ever think it can be a little disarming...if the clergy would just knock off the pick n choose TYPICAL TOPICAL sermons and start preaching the word...expositorily through whole books? That way there is so much in each message that the listener is shotgunned with data and has trouble playing accuser.
The usual approach is to pick one single topic/issue and spend 20-45 minutes harping on it..when they can pick a multfaceted/topic epistle or gospel and teach through it and bring out 3 to 7 issues in each message and that way edify/nurture/instruct the variety of levels of maturity of the listeners.
Of course that hardly happens when the clergy are spending 2/7 connected to God
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#14477 - 09/21/04 09:33 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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tithing tends to work with time as well. if you spend 2.5 hours daily seeking the connection it suffices to keep it continual and persistent during the other hours.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#14478 - 09/22/04 10:30 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Princess of Pasadena
Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 2420
Loc: California
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Tithing. of our TIME ! Great idea, Nico. Thanks. 
_________________________
Jeannie
...Change is inevitable; growth is optional....
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#14479 - 09/22/04 10:56 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 510
Loc: USA
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Tithing of time! What a great concept!
I appreciate your posts, Nico.
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#14480 - 09/22/04 11:47 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: Saoirse]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Thanks all!
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#14481 - 09/22/04 11:54 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 4058
Loc: Western United States
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Quote:
Is the reason why there remains this dumbing down,incompetent, non fat dry milk, shallow soteriology..pulpit famine is because you dopers out there crave cheapo sermons?
What perpetuates this sermon drug satus quo is cowardly carnal, fleshly, worldly, Laodicean churchians...who file by the pastor..after the weekly sermon, shaking hands and lying .."great sermon..Preach".
Have you given up?
Are you so insecure that you can't confront the pastor?
Are you so in love with the world that you just don't care anymore?
One of the influences/effects of cheapo sermons is cheapo sabbath schools. Usually the level of teaching at sabbath school can be tied to the level at the pulpit.
"And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:
'Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
'The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: "God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
"I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.'" Luke 18:9-12
Thanks for letting us know who we can trust in our hour of need as the rocks fall.
"But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!'
"I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted." Luke 18:13,14
"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, 'Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand.'" Rev 16:15-17
Lift Jesus up!! 
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#14482 - 09/23/04 04:37 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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LHC,
Is that the best you can do? Take an issue which is supported by members of the executive staff and turn it into solely a subjective personal accusation using scripture cryptics?
Any rookie religious wimp can do a rebut on anyone who calls out judgement/criticism, at any level, with those verses.
Since you posted a reply..I take it you are not totally indifferent..yet since you side with the gainsay crowd..it at least indirectly implies you see low/minimum validity to the topic theme.
In context..you could place those verses after rebuke words used by anyone...even Jesus..
You could cut and paste those words right after Matt 23.
You have been around here long enough to know that on some matters I use strong language/hyperbole.
And this is one of those matters...
Now would you like to post a reply regarding the theme of the thread..and/or its validity?
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#14483 - 09/23/04 09:21 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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That makes three, all in one the same seven.
See, not as if from an enemy, but from the kingdom of Heaven:
Enigma, the emergent language of truth denied its voice?
Herein perhaps, but from another, who can tell?
Another has not been denied or consigned to living hell.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#14484 - 09/25/04 10:20 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 4058
Loc: Western United States
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Quote:
In context..you could place those verses after rebuke words used by anyone...even Jesus..
You could cut and paste those words right after Matt 23.
Yes, I could, but it wouldn't be valid as Jesus spoke as One without sin.
"So when they continued ..., he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone ...." Matt 8:7
Quote:
Now would you like to post a reply regarding the theme of the thread..and/or its validity?
Yes! Silver Spring, we have a problem.
What is it?
Sin!!
What is the remedy? Since...
"...all have sinned and are falling short..." Rom 3:23
"Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered? Jer 8:22
" And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony..." Rev 12:9-11
"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."
Matt 18:15-17 Emph theirs
And if it isn't a sin, then it's just an opinion different than another's, of which the brethren have the right to pursue without being badmouthed by those supposed to be desirous of strengthening the body of believers.
Lift Jesus up!!
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#14485 - 09/25/04 09:28 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Oh great...well that settles that matter...ok everyone..back to 3ABN and politics
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#14486 - 09/25/04 10:09 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Possibility person
Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 2708
Loc: In transit
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I've always considered myself somewhat intelligent, but I guess I'm wrong. That last little exchange baffles me. It seemed like one person was deaf, or maybe it was two one-sided conversations? No, that's not it, either. I won't try to solve it today; too much work, and today is Sabbath!
I understand there is a surplus of SDA pastors right now, since there have been a number of layings off due to budgetary issues, especially in New York. I hope some of those are good preachers and that one of those good preachers becomes my pastor, filling the vacancy recently precipitously left.
Most SDAs I know don't place good sermons as a high priority. I can't quite understand this, because the weekly sermon does a lot to affect attendance and thereby brotherhood and unity, and all the other good things that draw us together.
Just my lowly little opinion,
LD
_________________________
LynnDel®
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#14487 - 09/26/04 01:30 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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LD... you might just be a possibility... Quote:
I've always considered myself somewhat intelligent, but I guess I'm wrong.
Naaa
Quote:
That last little exchange baffles me. It seemed like one person was deaf, or maybe it was two one-sided conversations? No, that's not it, either. I won't try to solve it today; too much work, and today is Sabbath!
Good one!! 
Quote:
Most SDAs I know don't place good sermons as a high priority. I can't quite understand this, because the weekly sermon does a lot to affect attendance and thereby brotherhood and unity, and all the other good things that draw us together.
Just my lowly little opinion,
LD
YES!!!
Leadership is a major influence..and many SDA's have heard YUGO sermons so I can't fault them because I don't know if they ever heard competent ones like I have.
But no one fret..as long as the denomination has 10,000 baptisms in Rwanda..it doesn't seem to matter.
"Everything's all right ,,,everything's fine..."
from Jesus Christ Superstar rock opera...
The Marines are lookin for a few good men
God is looking for a few good Christians
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#14488 - 09/26/04 02:58 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 4058
Loc: Western United States
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Quote:
Most SDAs I know don't place good sermons as a high priority. I can't quite understand this, because the weekly sermon does a lot to affect attendance and thereby brotherhood and unity, and all the other good things that draw us together.
LD
I've heard the phrase, "I would rather see a good sermon than hear one". Perhaps the reason not many are heard is because there are very few seen. That would seem to me to solve the perceived problem of good sermons, without heaping abuse on the individual who may have given up on seeing the church body miraculously rise from it's doldrums based on some so-called 'amazing spiritual giant', (a convenient way to shift the responsibility from one's self).
Another way of looking at it is to claim the promise,
"A man reaps what he sows." Gal 6:7
"Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 2 Cor 9:6
Maybe one reason we're not hearing good sermons is because we're not living good sermons.
Lift Jesus up!!
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#14489 - 09/26/04 03:28 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
"Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 2 Cor 9:6
Maybe one reason we're not hearing good sermons is because we're not living good sermons.
Lift Jesus up!!
Yeah..perhaps this and maybe that...validity acknowledged..
I will use the verse above and apply it to the pastor who sows the word sparingly and reaps sparingly .
Maybe, perhaps, possibly, could be the reason we are not hearing good sermons is that the pastors are not living good sermons.
Look at the initial thread post...it addresses the credibility of my opinion on the issue.
Evidently that did not carry much weight because you are gainsaying. So even with support of staff in high denominational positions expressing concern..you seem to shift the responsibility to the listener. Of course there is validity to your opinion..the case of Noah's preaching and those who perished in the wilderness attest to that position.
What do you need??? God to send you a letter documenting his displeasure with SDA homiletics? Or do you need a registered letter from Paulsen and the current GC Ministerial director expressing the need for improvement?
There is criticism in the SOP on this topic..was that relevant then only? We have arrived???
Today, I was talking to a head deacon of another church who mentioned that a church in Asia is loosening up on baptism requirements.
In history ..there is documented instances of consequences when leaders didn't run a tight ship.
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#14490 - 09/26/04 03:34 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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LHC,
Your profile shows retired..
I keep it no secret that I teach a sabbath school class and have mentioned my religious history on this forum.
What is your experience?
I am not on a tirade to fire preachers...my thrust is to get them to sow the word generously instead of sparingly..and if anything do a hyperseed...ya know what that means? That is where they spray grass seed on the dirt and it has fertilizer with the seed.
With the way you seem to answer every post with scripture in red..I would lean to the notion that you would get my drift. It is a mystery to me what your gainsay is motivated by.
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#14491 - 09/26/04 07:00 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 4058
Loc: Western United States
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Quote:
It is a mystery to me what your gainsay is motivated by.
I think it probably stems, at least in part, from the fact that nary a problem was ever solved from the biblical standpoint, by individuals trying to improve things by making attempts to change the lives of others. In the case of Adam he blamed the woman, implying it was God's fault for the error since He gave her to him. In turn the woman
blamed the serpent. No one said the real reason the world was getting worse was because they themselves failed their responsibility. It appears nothing has changed in the ensueing 6,000 years.
When I "saw" that reality applied to my life as well, at last I could go to God with true repentance instead of looking for a better place in the grand scheme of things by finding scapegoats for my discontent in my children, my spouse, my "friends, my delinquent church, my employer, my government, my past, my future, my pastor, ad infinitum.
Now if I see a problem that is worthy of my attention for the purpose of change, I ask God if there is somewhere He would like me to fit into the scenario, where my actions will bring about the necessary reform He is interested in. If it is too great for me to accomplish He has never asked me to go tell the world how terrible they are for not doing what I myself failed to accomplish.
That doesn't mean to stop preaching the Word, part of the great commission, but it does mean it necessary for me to let God lead the ones who come in contact with it through my voice. Their reaction to the Word will define the part they wish to play without them having to be accountable to another fallible instrument of God's choice (me), to give them determination.
I would not gainsay there will be a small number of people who will respond to your method of speaking out at the failures of others (whoever). And they will become zealous disciples on occasion. Each whether zealous or not, will stay motivated to action just as long as their guilty conscience convinces them they are in danger of losing out on the gifts of God if they slacken in response to another voice instead of Jesus' promise that they will indeed have His presence in their lives as long as it is invited.
"This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:29
Blessings!!
Lift Jesus up!!
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#14493 - 09/26/04 04:07 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I think it probably stems, at least in part, from the fact that nary a problem was ever solved from the biblical standpoint, by individuals trying to improve things by making attempts to change the lives of others.
You got to be kidding??? What warped teacher taught you this?? Ever read the bible??
Who wrote 2 Cor 3:18??
Quote:
In the case of Adam he blamed the woman, implying it was God's fault for the error since He gave her to him. In turn the woman
blamed the serpent. No one said the real reason the world was getting worse was because they themselves failed their responsibility.
This was their initail reaction out of fear. Are we supposed to believe that they maintained this attitude?
Maybe God had a plan to CHANGE them to embrace person responsibility?
Quote:
When I "saw" that reality applied to my life as well, at last I could go to God with true repentance instead of looking for a better place in the grand scheme of things by finding scapegoats for my discontent in my children, my spouse, my "friends, my delinquent church, my employer, my government, my past, my future, my pastor, ad infinitum.
Granted people do that..pick out scapegoats...yet there are some who pick the beam out of their eye in true repentence and then approach others with the need to challenge them to sow the seed generously
Quote:
That doesn't mean to stop preaching the Word, part of the great commission, but it does mean it necessary for me to let God lead the ones who come in contact with it through my voice. Their reaction to the Word will define the part they wish to play without them having to be accountable to another fallible instrument of God's choice (me), to give them determination.
So we tell them once and then just write them off...never go to them again?
Is that what God did to Jonah?
Also we should just let people be accountable to God...forget leaders, supervisors and managers??
Quote:
I would not gainsay there will be a small number of people who will respond to your method of speaking out at the failures of others (whoever). And they will become zealous disciples on occasion. Each whether zealous or not, will stay motivated to action just as long as their guilty conscience convinces them they are in danger of losing out on the gifts of God if they slacken in response to another voice instead of Jesus' promise that they will indeed have His presence in their lives as long as it is invited.
This is a pretty cynical attitude.
The flavor I get from your reply smacks of Calvinism...
TULIP
T=total depravity of man...
Seems you have walked down a pretty rough road and been burned.
"This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:29
Blessings!!
Lift Jesus up!!
LHC...thanks for the reply...sincerely...
it is very revealing....valid in a limited sense...yeah I know ..that didn't say much but I hope you know what I mean.
The notions expressed remind me of those from SDA's who are taught by preachers of TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMONS...and not as Paul's manner where he was not remiss in sharing the whole counsel of God.
I sense the laisez faire influence...CAPI
complacent
apathetic
passive
indifferent
that has permeated SDA sermons and thinking
the ones that minimizes personal invovlvement.
At least you haven't totally succumbed to it since you are at least on this site and replying.
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#14494 - 09/26/04 06:12 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Quote:
(by JimBob)
Granted people do that..pick out scapegoats...yet there are some who pick the beam out of their eye in true repentence and then approach others with the need to challenge them to sow the seed generously
This is an interesting point and illustrates the aspect of judgment-passing that I call "two mirrors facing". What comes to my mind reading this is to ask whether or not we can sometimes fall into the trap of passing judgment on everyone who takes it upon themselves to "challenge" another as being someone who has a beam in their eye and is merely passing judgment. I.e., we pass a judgment that says another is judgment-passing, but is this not a judgment-passing on our own part when we do it? What evidence do we have that this or that person is, in fact, picking at someone else's speck without removing their own "beam"? And more to the point, what criteria do we use to evaluate such a question? Is it only the criteria of our own personal irritation at what they are saying? (I'm addressing this question unilaterally to myself as well as any others reading here.)
Quote:
by LHC:
That doesn't mean to stop preaching the Word, part of the great commission, but it does mean it necessary for me to let God lead the ones who come in contact with it through my voice. Their reaction to the Word will define the part they wish to play without them having to be accountable to another fallible instrument of God's choice (me), to give them determination.
The problem is, one simply cannot remove the element of oneself from one's communications -- it is impossible. Even by choosing to quote scripture, you "give yourself away" with regard to (a) the angle you are taking on a topic; (b) your own personal viewpoint about it; (c) the judgments or assessments you are making on the person you are addressing (questions above notwithstanding) -- and the recipient and even the "innocent bystanders" overhearing you KNOW this. A valid self-challenging question might be, am I really looking to their welfare and removing the factor of "accountability" to a "fallible instrument" by doing this? Or am I really simply trying to remove my OWN accountability in the matter for how it goes? And the place to direct this question is not to the subjective realm of your own heart and feelings and "intentions" but rather to the hard, practical realm of what actually transpires as a result.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#14495 - 09/30/04 05:25 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I just replied on the singles thread and wanted to post that reply here. _________________________________________ Quote: And God knows how much the SDA Church today is IN NEED of revival and reformation. ________________________________________ That's the problem.....it's just God.  A reformation is needed among the people, but it should first begin its purifying work with the ministers . They are watchmen upon the walls of Zion, to sound the note of warning to the careless, the unsuspecting; also to portray the fate of the hypocrite in Zion. It seemed to me that some of the ministers had forgotten that Satan was yet alive, as persevering, earnest, and artful as ever; that he was still seeking to allure souls from the path of righteousness. {1T 469.3} Related to 1st lesson of Daniel>>>>>>> One important part of the work of the ministry is to faithfully present to the people the health reform as it stands connected with the third angel's message as part and parcel of the same work. They should not fail to adopt it themselves, and should urge it upon all who profess to believe the truth. HEY!! Pay attention I'm not through!!  ------------------------------ Acts 20 "25": And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. "26": Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. "27": For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. "28": Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers , to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. "29": For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. "30": Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. "31": Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. There are over 30,000 verses in the bible. Some pastors are at churches 2 years..some longer... When you have the usual TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMON with a 2 to 3 verse text chosen and the clergy pulpit speaker rambles on with the topic/theme related to that portion of scripture with jokes and stories..minimal teaching..PUKE!!!..you get about 100 topics covered in 2 years...MAYBE.. you got to throw New year's resolution, Religious Liberty, Valentines, Easter, Mother's Day,..maybe Father's day, Patriotic 4th of July day, Pathfinder day, Back to school education day, Thansgiving Day, Christmas sermon, an all musical worship service..PUKE!!!, and gimme, gimmee, TITHE sermons. Then there are the testimonial no sermon days..and throw in the 4 micro sermons for the Communion sabbaths where the trite samo samo, shallow junk is presented...ZZZZZ Guess how much of those 30,000 verses get presented in 2 years????.....PUKE!!!! So don't get me wrong...but much preaching is so limited regarding the whole counsel of God ...in the SDA denomination.. It is really a preach eschatology, paranoia, prophecy, Laodicea, Jesus wil never leave you or forsake you no ,matter how fleshly worldly, backsliding, you are..just keep coming to church and don't ignore the offering plate..and kissie to the speaker, don't make waves...and we'll all be in Heaven....zzzzzzzzz
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#14496 - 09/30/04 05:39 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...
the 3ABN flap/gossip/bribe/corruption/affair/tabloid rag stuff
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#14497 - 09/30/04 06:53 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...
the 3ABN flap/gossip/bribe/corruption/affair/tabloid rag stuff
===============================
Well JimBob since I am not a prophet or a son of a prophet, even being least in my fathers house I will tell you what is on the horizon. [take this with a grain of salt, since the warning label on my package now containes these words..."Ed is an eccentric"] But court is still in session in heaven. Just barely!
Big money needs to be raised immediately due to mega millions in lawsuits, so look for a push for all churches to "GET OUT OF DEBT" and pay off their church morgages. Once that is done, then leadership will allow the big ones to be hocked to the hilt behind the members back. I would not [NEVER]say this as though it has never happened before.
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#14498 - 09/30/04 07:21 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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You know ... there are so many human voices out there, with so many human emphases on different things ... that sometimes I find it impossible to sort out where God wants ME to be focused. Is health reform, for example, or any other "lifestyle alteration praxis" really that important to my relationship with God? Especially considering it's not the letting go or relaxing of these things that leads to messing up that relationship but rather (for me personally anyway) it happens the other way around -- first something gets in the way of the relationship and THEN those things will go slack in my life. Picking up that slack doesn't fix the gap in my relationship w/ God, though if/when the gap gets fixed eventually as a matter of course I tend to resume those things ...
People will tell me all sorts of things that are Biblical and "sound", and well worth considering in themselves -- I'm talking of those who have good info and good counsel to share -- and yet I find myself wondering what does God really want me to focus on in my life? What is He looking at right now and deeming most important and most vital for me? And the problem is, just as I can't trust the flood of input from others -- all of whom have their various areas of focus that are currently important to THEM in "the work" -- so I cannot trust my own mind either. If I feel it is some area that is easy, how do I know I'm not just coddling myself? If I feel it's in some area that seems harshly indicting of myself, how do I know that's not the classic well of poison ploy from Satan rising up from within to drive me away from God through frustration and self-loathing and depressive reactions?
I really need to hear from God but when I open my Bible, HE is "all over the place" too! No wonder -- He has to reach a gazillion people where THEY are in THEIR walk, life, faith, need, etc. -- but it doesn't help me determine any clearer what I need to be looking at, studying, and learning right now.
I'm confused.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#14499 - 09/30/04 07:31 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Yep...the bible is multifaceted...
Here is what my brother usually says when we are getting on the fringe of conjecture/speculation
Micah 6
"8": He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
Now I know this simple verse is loaded with personal application..which the Holy Spirit can impress each individual where there is room for growth.
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#14500 - 09/30/04 07:32 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Nico said this. "I really need to hear from God but when I open my Bible, HE is "all over the place" too!
=========================
I have a solution, THE SOLUTION! Open your bible after prayer and when you find something required of you close your bible and GO DO THAT! Then when you come again to read say, "Oh Lord you were so RIGHT, what else do you want to show me that PLEASES YOU!"
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#14501 - 09/30/04 07:33 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Ya see if a preacher would take that one verse...and exegete it competently...he could get 3(THREE) topics out of that..
Justly
Mercy
Humbly
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#14502 - 10/01/04 05:16 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Ya see if a preacher would take that one verse...and exegete it competently...he could get 3(THREE) topics out of that..
Justly
Mercy
Humbly
======================
JimBob it appears as though we both posted about the same times so your words above do not apply to me, but the solution I suggested for Nico DO APPLY TO ME! How about you, have you ever been a the same crossroads of which Nico speaks??
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#14503 - 10/02/04 04:43 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
How about you, have you ever been at the same crossroads of which Nico speaks??
Not that I can recall..
Personally ..advice, suggestions, comments are like arrows aimed at a target...ME...
the Holy Spirit has had His time enough with me that I know which ones hit the bull's eye.
I know who and what I am..and what my purpose is....
TO MINIMIZE NON FAT DRY MILK TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMONS.
Thanks for asking Ed.
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#14505 - 10/02/04 04:58 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: CaregiverDee]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Been there and done that...
We had a poster here who called those exegesis sermons ..spinach..
Must have been forced to watch POPEYE cartoons or somethin...who knows??
Ya see when people have been on a milk diet so long...they get spiritual constipation on the meaty expository ones.
Also for the preachers who are used to old wine skins...they hav eproblems with the other type
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#14506 - 10/02/04 10:05 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 4058
Loc: Western United States
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Quote:
I know which ones hit the bull's eye.
I know who and what I am..and what my purpose is....
TO MINIMIZE NON FAT DRY MILK TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMONS.
And yet you continue giving one (the same one, though short) on this forum, do you not? I've heard it said, 'It takes one to know one'.
"But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? Romans 2:3
Courage!
Lift Jesus up!!
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#14508 - 10/02/04 05:33 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
And yet you continue giving one (the same one, though short) on this forum, do you not? I've heard it said, 'It takes one to know one'.
I am on a forum..not in a pulpit....
Even when I teach sabbath school...
it is not a one topic event.
Nice try..
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#14509 - 10/02/04 05:35 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: zion]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Bille,
A preacher could go up to the pulpit and say a 2 word sermon..
Be nice"...and you could conclude the same thing.
What is your personal vege-beef with my purpose?
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#14510 - 10/02/04 06:12 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Possibility person
Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 2708
Loc: In transit
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JimBob,
Just thinking. . . The trouble with riding a hobby horse - having one major issue that you often address - is that it can get to the point when people see your name at the head of a post, they will think to themselves, "I know what he's going to say," and not bother to read it.
It has been my personal experience that it is the rare professional sermon giver who can take kindly to sermon suggestions. It is human nature to consider one's creations, including sermons, in the same light that some might view their grandchildren or their pet. Love me, love my dog. Love me, love my sermon. I have not ever seen any church member effectively influence sermon preparation or delivery, and only sometimes content.
Constructive criticism is only useful if the target is listening or wants to improve. I think your hobby horse is firmly rooted in one spot. It ain't gonna go anywhere, JimBob.
LynnDel
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#14511 - 10/02/04 09:07 PM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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There's an EGW quote that addresses this whole thing rather nicely. I believe it's from MH p. 143? Anyway ... it addresses the whole topic of sermonizing itself, and summarizes the matter quite nicely:
"Christ's method alone will give true success in reaching the people. The Saviour mingled with men as one who desired their good. He showed His sympathy for them, ministered to their needs, and won their confidence. Then He bade them, "Follow Me."
There is need of coming close to the people by personal effort. If less time were given to sermonizing, and more time were spent in personal ministry, greater results would be seen. The poor are to be relieved, the sick cared for, the sorrowing and the bereaved comforted, the ignorant instructed, the inexperienced counseled. We are to weep with those that weep, and rejoice with those that rejoice."
Seems it doesn't matter whether sermons are topical or exegetical, meaty or milky -- the bottom line is, less talk, more action; less preaching, more personal involvement.
Personally, I second that notion.
N.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#14512 - 10/03/04 01:54 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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OK..NON FAT DRY MILK TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMON DOPER,BIBLEHATING GAINSAYERS...LISTEN UP!! I just got off the phone with a friend who is head deacon where John Bradshaw of Amazing Facts is doing an evangelistic series. The title of his sermon today was.... "The 2 preachers who stopped coming to church." Guess what the 2 preachers are???? The OLD and NEW TESTAMENTS?? the theme being that the exposure of the bible from the pulpit is getting low/minimized. Want to pick on John too?? Maybe he is reading my TYPICAL TOPICAL SERMON posts on the internet.. AND another thing....if I ceased my campaign...then new people on the forums like Bille etc..would not have someone to agitate them. BTW..Nico..I think you know I am very familiar with the MH 143.(MSNCF).since I usually use it in my outreach tirades along with FORT and CLIRTS
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#14513 - 10/03/04 02:02 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anyone care to share the sermon debriefing of today from their church???
As much as I think my current pastor is a for real serious, no nonsense, caring pastor...
today's TOPICAL SERMON covered 3 verses and used 4 stories..
let's see 3 verses a week and 30,000 verses in the bible....hmm
Do we have 10,000 weeks/sabbaths til Jesus comes???
SDA..people of the book???
Who started that Urban legend anyway?????
OH....in the SS class we covered at least 21 verses in Daniel and used at least 2 other verses for elaboration and covered ..
Outreach, exclusivity, health and holiness connection,(brain scans of the frontal lobe), great controversy, prayer, seeing the writing on the wall, countering secular humanism...and more...
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#14514 - 10/03/04 03:12 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: ]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
It has been my personal experience that it is the rare professional sermon giver who can take kindly to sermon suggestions. I have not ever seen any church member effectively influence sermon preparation or delivery, and only sometimes content.
Constructive criticism is only useful if the target is listening or wants to improve. I think your hobby horse is firmly rooted in one spot. It ain't gonna go anywhere, JimBob.
LynnDel
2 Timothy, chapter 4
"1": I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
"2": Preach the word ; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
"3": For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
"4": And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
That is ok...I am posting for that rare clergy who hasn't gone deaf...they are one in a thousand.
Ever read about George Whitefield? He knew exactly what I am talking about.
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#14515 - 10/03/04 03:21 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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darlene, Hurry up ...I can't stand the suspense!!
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#14516 - 10/03/04 03:22 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: sweettrini]
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Make It Happen
Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 3151
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
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JimBob7, I am not a trained preacher but, I preach. I believe that the Lord gives me the topic to preach on; be it a topical sermon or any other kind of sermon. I take my direction from Him and speak on the topic that He gives that is necessary for the group I speak to. I believe that there are many other speakers who do the same thing. So, if the Lord gives me a topical sermon, in your estimation that is wrong?
When I look at the life of Jesus, I see that He used parables (stories) most often. Common everyday stories which reached the hearts of the common everyday folk. Jesus was in the business of reaching hearts. So, today many times the topical sermons reach hearts more readily than does a theological sermon. Theological sermons most often benefit an educated audience. I know, because I am a common person and I can understand stories better than theological sermons.
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#14517 - 10/03/04 03:42 AM
Re: Silver Spring, we have a problem.
[Re: meek]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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