I hope to get into "the good stuff," sure, but I also want to make much of it as understandable and as simple as possible for those who are interested. I hope that doesn't mean it has to be "fluff."

What I propose on this thread is simply to make a close examination of the way in which the NT uses all of the words dealing with pastor, elder, bishop, minister, and deacon. It would also be helpful to review what the NT says regarding the qualifications and the responsibilities, or functions, of those occupying these offices.

So far, the following verses are the ones which some members of CA have pointed to as offering the best evidence that there were female elders or pastors in the NT church:

1) 1 Tim. 3: 11-- gunaikas-- referring to wives of deacons or possibly deaconesses; most probably the wives.

2) Romans 16: 1-- diakonos-- servant or deaconess. Even if translated as "minister", it does not necessarily mean "pastor." We need to examine the role and qualifications of the NT deacon, and also examine all the uses of diakonos in the NT.

3) 1 Tim 5: 2-- presbutera (Fem): All 66 translations that I've examined in English have "older women." All Greek-English lexicons and authorities agree with that translation of 1 Tim. 5: 2.

4) Titus 2: 3-- presbutis-- "an aged woman." Translated here as "aged women," "elder women" or "older women."

5) Romans 16: 3-- sunergous-- co-worker or fellow worker. Compare its use at 1 Thess. 3: 2.

Is there anyone who believes that these verses offer evidence that there were women functioning as pastor or elders in the NT church? If so, what is the evidence that these verses may properly be understand in this way?

Regards,
"John 3: 14"

I'm transferring some of the posts from another thread where the discussion was felt by some to be off topic:



In 1 Tim. 5: 2, Paul used the word, presbuteras, the only occurrence of that word in the feminine gender in the NT. If Paul had used it in Titus 2: 3, owing to the context, it would have meant a "female elder." In 1 Tim. 5: 2, however, the context leaves no doubt that it has reference to "older women," which is the reason ALL translations give that reading. Older men and older women are there compared and contrasted with younger men and younger women, and the language is that of family, not that of church officers. As for Titus 2: 3, and the word, presbutis, all Greek-English Lexicons and translations show that it is referring to "older women." There is no doubt as to the meaning of this word. The Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament Illustrated From Papyri and Other Non-Literary Sources, written by Moulton and Milligan, says, "Presbutis, 'an old woman,'" (p. 335).



Please produce a reputable translation or an authority on the Greek language which says that Titus 2: 3 is referring to an officer of the NT church rather than to "older women." All 66 of my translations of the NT, as well as those I have in Spanish, read, "older women," etc.



At this point, as far as I'm concerned, we're only talking about the meaning of Titus 2: 3 and 1 Tim. 5: 2. I think the best way to proceed is to examine each verse of the NT dealing with pastors, ministers, bishops, elders, and deacons, in order to see exactly what the NT evidence is on this topic.



Please offer your best evidence that there was a female elder in the NT church.



While no modern church is bound by every organizational detail of the NT church, yet Christian churches are certainly bound by God's commands. Also, I believe that the church should follow as closely as possible the NT pattern for governing the church, and part of that pattern is male-leadership. For instance, Christ chose 12 men, not 6 men and 6 women, as His disciples. Paul's argument for male leadership in the church is not based on culture or problems within the local church, as is sometimes argued, but he points us to creation and the law as the reasons that men should be the leaders in the family and in the church. If those are the underlying reasons for Paul's instructions, a good argument can be made that they are universal and not limited to a certain time or condition.

Regards,
"John 3: 17"

#149731 - 12/31/07 06:33 AM Re: History of Women Elders and Pastors [Re: John317]
Tom Wetmore
Latitudinarian


Registered: 06/21/00
Posts: 826
Loc: Silver Spring, MD, USA




What we need to do, and what I propose to do on this thread, is examine every single verse in the NT that uses the words that are translated as elder, pastor, minister, deacon, bishop, overseer, etc. We will look most carefully at those verses that you believe offer evidence that there were female elders or pastors in the NT church.

At this point, I would simply ask you to produce any translation that you know of which translates 1 Tim. 5: 2, as anything other than "older women." Also, please include any Greek-Lexicon which says that 1 Tim 5: 2 refers to female church officers.



As anyone knows who knows Koine Greek, both words are used to describe older men or women. See, for instance, Luke 15: 25. All of the Greek-English lexicons agree with this fact. Also, do not forget that every single translation of the NT translates 1 Tim 5: 2 the very same way, as "older women," etc. Do you know of any translation that translates this verse as referring to church officers?

We will look more closely at this question of the correct way to translate these verses as well as others as we continue this dialogue.

Regards,
"John 3: 17"

The following are all the NT verses containing the noun, presbuteros, Strongs # 4245, which is usually translated as "elder" or "elders." It is also translated as "older men," etc., such as in Acts 2: 17. The feminine gender of that word is only used once in the NT, at 1 Tim. 5: 2, where it is always translated as "older women." Except for that single exception, the word is in the masculine gender and always refers to males.

1) Matt. 15: 2--- "elders." All references in the gospels and the Acts are in regard to men.

Matt. 16: 21; 21: 23; 26: 3, 47, 57, 59; 27: 1, 3, 12, 20, 41; 28: 12.

2) Mark 7: 3, 5; 8:31; 11: 27; 14: 43, 53; 51: 1.

3) Luke 7: 3;9: 22; 10: 40; 15: 25; 20: 1; 22: 52.

4) John 8: 9-- here it refers to "eldest men."

5) Acts 2: 17-- "old men."

6) Acts 4: 5-- RSV, "elders."

7) Acts 4: 8-- RSV, "elders."

8) Acts 4: 23-- RSV, "elders."

9) Acts 15: 2-- RSV, "elders."

10) Acts 15: 4-- RSV, "elders."

11) Acts 15: 6-- RSV, "elders."

12) Acts 15: 22-- RSV, "elders."

13) Acts 15: 23-- RSV, "elders"

14) Acts 16: 4-- RSV, "elders."

15) Acts 20: 17-- RSV, "elders."

16) Acts 21: 18-- RSV, "elders."

17) Acts 23: 14-- RSV, "elders."

18) Acts 24:1-- RSV, "elders."

19) Acts 25: 15-- RSV, "elders."

20) 1 Timothy 5: 1-- RSV, New American Standard, New Jerusalem Bible, TEV, LB, Phillips, Revised New English Bible, New King James Version, NIV-- "older man;" KJV-- "elder."

21) 1 Tim. 5: 2-- RSV "older women." ALL 66 translations that I own read the same here. All Greek-Lexicons also agree that this is the correct translation at this verse.

22) 1 Tim. 5: 17-- RSV, "elders"

23) 1 Tim. 5: 19-- RSV, "an elder"

24) Titus 1: 5-- RSV, "elders."

25) Hebrews 11: 2-- RSV, "men of old;" KJV, "the elders;" NIV, "the ancients."

26) James 5: 14-- RSV, "elders;" i.e., "elders of the church." This verse assumes that the "elders" are all males.

27) 1 Peter 5: 1-- RSV, "elders."

28) 1 Peter 5: 5-- RSV, "elders."

29) 2 John 1-- RSV, "elder."

30) 3 John 1-- RSV, "elder."

31) Rev. 4: 4-- RSV, "elders."

32) Rev. 4: 10-- RSV, "elders."

33) Rev. 5, 6, 8, 11, 14-- RSV, "elders."

34) Rev. 7: 11, 13-- RSV, "elders."

35) Rev. 11: 16-- RSV, "elders."

36) Rev. 14: 3-- RSV, "elders."

37) Rev. 19: 4-- RSV, "elders."

In heaven all the "elders" are described as males. Rev. 14: 3 and 19: 4 tell of events yet future.

The only occurrence of presbutis, Strongs #4247, is at Titus 2: 3, where it is always translated as, "aged women, " etc. All Greek-English Lexicons agree that this is the correct translation.

Presbuterion, Strong's #4244, occurs in three verses, and each time is translated, "elders," and obviously refers to men: Luke 22: 66; Acts 22: 5; 1 Tim. 4: 4.

Next we will look every occurrence in the NT of the verb, diakoneo, Strongs #1247, which means to be a servant, attendant, domestic; to serve, minister, wait upon. We'll eventually discuss every occurrence of every word and verse of the NT dealing with the various officers of the church as well as any that deals with women's role in the NT church. If anyone thinks of a word or verse or of an argument that is not brought up here, please bring it up and let's talk about it.

Regards,
"John 3: 17"

Below are all of the NT verses containing the verb, diakoneo, Strong's #1247, meaning to be a servant, attendant, domestic; to serve, minister, wait upon.

Does anyone see any evidence here that there were women pastors and elders in the NT congregations?

1) Matt. 4: 11-- RSV, NASB, angels "ministered"

2) Matt. 8: 15-- RSV, Peter's mother-in-law "served" Jesus; NASB, "wait on."

3) Matt. 20: 28-- RSV, not to be "served but to serve"

4) Matt. 25: 44-- RSV, "minister to you."

5) Matt. 27: 55-- RSV, "ministering."

6) Mark 1: 13-- RSV, "ministered;" NIV "attended."

7) Mark 1: 31-- RSV, "served;" NIV, "to wait on."

8) Mark 10: 45-- RSV, NIV, not to be "served but to serve."

9) Mark 15: 41-- RSV, "ministered;" NIV, "cared for his needs."

10) Luke 4: 39, RSV, to serve; NIV, to wait on.

11) Luke 8: 3-- RSV, "provided for;" NIV, "helping to support."

12) Luke 10: 40-- RSV, "to serve;" NIV, "to do the work."

13) Luke 12: 37-- RSV, NIV, "serve"

14) Luke 17: 8-- RSV, "serve;" NIV, "wait on."

15) Luke 22: 26-- RSV, NIV, "serves."

16) Luke 22: 27-- RSV, NIV, "serves...serves."

17) John 12: 2-- RSV, NIV, Martha "served."

18) John 12: 26-- RSV, NIV, "serves... serves"

19) Acts 6: 2-- RSV, "to serve [tables];" NIV, "to wait on [tables]." Jerusalem Bible, "so as to give out food;" TEV, "to handle finances." (This is in reference to the first deacons in the NT church.)

20) Acts 19: 22-- RSV, NIV, "helpers;" Robert Young Literal, "those ministering." Masculine participle.

21) Romans 15: 25-- RSV, "aid;" NIV, "in the service of" of the saints; RYL, "ministering to."

22) 2 Cor. 3: 3-- RSV, "delivered;" NIV, "ministry;" NRSV, "prepared;" RYL, "Ministered."

23) 2 Cor. 8: 19-- RSV, "carrying on;" NIV, "administer;" NRSV, "administering;" RYL, "ministered."

24) 2 Cor. 8: 20-- RSV, "administering;" NIV, "administer."

25) 1 Tim. 3: 10-- RSV, NIV, "Let them serve [as deacons];" RYL, "let them minister."

26) 2 Tim. 1: 18-- RSV, "service;" NIV, "helped;" RYL, "minister."

27) Philemon 13-- RSV, "serve;" NIV, "helping;" NASB, "minister."

28) Hebrews 6: 10-- RSV, "serving... still do;" NIV, "helped... continuing to help." NASB, "ministered... still ministering."

29) 1 Peter 1: 12-- RSV, NIV, NASB, NRSV, "serving." Literally, "ministering."

30) 1 Peter 4: 10-- RSV, "employ it for;" NRSV,NIV, "serve;" NASB, "employ it in serving."

31) 1 Peter 4: 11-- RSV, "renders service;" NASB, NIV, "serves; "RYL, "minister."

We'll look next at every occurrence of the Greek noun, diakonos, Strong's # 1249, which is the ordinary word for "servant" when it is used in contexts not dealing with church officers. It occurs at Romans 16: 1 and is there translated as "deaconess" (RSV, NRSV), "servant" (KJV, NKJV, NIV, ASV, NASB), "minister" (Darby, New American Bible), and "ministrant" (Robert Young's Literal).

Regards,
"John 3: 17"

The following are all of the NT verses in which the noun diakonos occurs, #Strong's #1249, the ordinary word for "servant" when not used in the context of church officers.

At Romans 16: 1, it is most often translated as either "deaconess" or "servant." The New American Bible (Catholic), usually a very dependable translation, reads, "minister." Robert Young's Literal here reads, "ministrant."

1) Matthew 20: 26-- RSV, NIV, "servant."

2) Matthew 22: 13-- RSV, NIV, "attendants."

3) Matthew 23: 11-- RSV, NIV, "servant."

4) Mark 9: 35-- RSV, NIV, "servant."

5) John 2: 5-- RSV, NIV, "servants." (Regarding waiters, one who serves food and drink.)

6) John 2: 9-- RSV, NIV, "servants."

7) John 12: 26-- RSV, NIV, "servant."

8) Romans 13: 4-- (of government) RSV, NIV, "servant."

9) Romans 15: 8-- (of Christ) RSV, NIV, "servant."

10) Romans 16: 1-- (of Phoebe) RSV, Amplified, "deaconess;" NIV, NKJV, NASB, "servant;" New American Bible, REB, Darby, "minister."

Both Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon and the Lexicon by Bauer, Arndt and Gingrich conclude that here the word diakonos has reference to deaconess.

11) 1 Cor. 3: 5-- (of Paul and Apollos) RSV, NIV, "servants."

12) 2 Cor. 3: 6-- (of Paul and Timothy) RSV, NIV, "servants."

13) 2 Cor. 6: 4-- (of Paul and Timothy) RSV, NIV, "servants."

14) 2 Cor. 11: 15-- (of Satan's followers) RSV, NIV, "servants."

15) 2 Cor. 11: 23-- (of Jewish Christians) RSV, NIV, "servants."

16) Gal. 2: 17-- (of Christ), RSV, "agent;" NRSV, "servant;" NIV, "one who promotes;" KJV, "minister."

17) Eph. 3: 7-- (of Paul) RSV, "a minister;" NIV, "a servant."

18) Eph. 6: 21-- (Of Tychicus) RSV, "minister;" NIV, "servant;" NEB, "helper."

19) Phil. 1: 1-- (Ones to whom the letter, Philippians, is addressed), RSV, NIV, "deacons;" TEV, "helpers."

20) Col. 1: 7-- (of Epaphras), RSV, NIV, "minister;" NEB, TEV, "worker;" Jerusalem Bible, "deputy."

21) Col. 1: 23-- (of Paul), RSV, "minister;" NIV, "servant."

22) Col. 1: 25-- (of Paul), RSV, "minister;" NIV, "servant."

23) Col. 4: 7-- (of Tychicus), RSV, NIV, ASV, "minister;" NASB, "servant."

24) 1 Thess. 3: 2-- (of Timothy) RSV, "servant;" ASV, "minister;" (if reading is diakonos, based on Majority Text and Sinaiaticus; virtually all Greek manuscripts, including the most ancient, give this reading);

--- NIV, "fellow-worker;" NRSV, "co-worker;" (if reading is sunergon, based on manuscript D, a fifth century manuscript, and on #33, a 9th century manuscript. The Critical Text has sunergon, and therefore NIV, NASB, and NRSV all give that reading.)

25) 1 Tim. 3: 8-- (of men chosen to be deacons) RSV, NIV, "deacons;" TEV, "church-helpers."

26) 1 Tim. 3: 12-- RSV, NASB, "deacons;" NIV, "a deacon;" the Greek is plural.

26) 1 Tim. 4: 6-- RSV, "minister;" NIV, NRSV, "servant."

Next we'll look at 10 other words in the NT that are sometimes translated as "minister." We will see that none of them have reference to women as pastors of the church.

After that, we'll look at all the words translated as "bishop," or "overseer," "pastor," "leader," "governor," etc. It will be seen that none of these, either, have reference to women as bishops, overseers, elders or pastors in the church.

Regards,
"John 3: 17"

There are many different kinds of ministers. The word, diakonos, is the ordinary Greek word for servant. By comparing its use in the NT, you can see that it refers to all kinds of ministry and service, from serving drinks to serving tables or distributing food, etc., to the poor. When it is used in the context of church officers, it is usually translated, "deacon" or "minister." The only time it is used in reference to a woman is in Romans 16: 1, and here it is most often translated servant or deacon or deaconess.

The proof that Phoebe was not a minister in the sense of being the pastor of a church is shown by the fact that Paul says in 1 Tim. 2: 12 he "permits NO woman to teach or have authority over a man." Now, Paul could not make that statement if Phoebe was an elder or pastor of a local church, with authority over the men in the church. The truth is that Bible scholars are agreed that we can't know exactly what kind of "servant" or "minister" Phoebe was in the local church, but one thing we can know for sure is that she was not the elder or pastor of the church in Corinth, because Paul wrote to the Corinthian believers, "As in all the churches of the saints, let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says" (1 Cor. 14: 33b-34; ASV, RSV, NRSV, NIV, New Jerusalem Bible, Beck, Amplified.)

It should be noted that the apostle wrote this from a church where Priscilla-- a woman who, along with her husband, taught Apollos the Scriptures-- was an active member (see 16: 19). Priscilla was an intelligent, educated woman, yet Paul included her among the women whom he would not permit to exercise authority over a man. Can you imagine Paul writing this to a church at the same time that a woman, Phoebe, was the pastor of a local church? I can't.





Except for the simple fact that, for some reason, you never come across any Biblical instructions that a church officer is to be "a one-man woman."

Also, one really should consider the fact that in all the references to elders, bishops, overseers, and pastors, there are clear indications that a man is meant, not a woman. Would you be anxious to argue that this is merely coincidental?

In the context of 1 Tim. 3: 2, the word gune means wife and the word aner means husband. These are the same words that are used in Eph. 5: 23-24 where it says that "the husband is the head of the wife," "as the church is subject to Christ and as the wives are to be subject to their own husbands in everything."

Please notice that Eph 5: 32 significantly compares the husband's relationship to the wife with Christ's relationship to the Father and to the church. It's a point that we need to dwell much more on as we discuss this subject. Would it ever be appropriate for the church to try to take over the leadership role that belongs to Christ? How about if Christ were to try to take over the leadership role of the Father? If those things would never be right, would it be right for the wife to try to usurp the leadership role of the husband? If the woman takes over this leadership role of the man in the church, would not the same thing happen in the family and in the home? What would be the effect of this on the family, society and the church?

Regards,
"John 3: 17"

Below are 8 Greek words that are sometimes translated as "minister" in the NT. Interestingly, the Greek noun, hyperetes, Strong's #5257, is used by the KJV and RSV at Luke 1: 2 with reference to men and women "ministers," (NASB, NIV, "servants"). None of these refer to women as pastors, elders, or ministers of local churches.

1) Leitourgos-- Strong's # 3011-- a masculine noun. Gives no references to women as ministers or pastors.

a) Of government officials, Romans 13: 6: "ministers" (NKJV).

b) Of Paul, Romans 15: 16: "a minister of Jesus Christ"

c) Of Epaphroditus, Phil. 2: 25: "minister to my need" (RSV); "one who ministered to my need" (NKJV).

d) Of the angels, Hebrews 1: 7: "ministers" (NKJV).

e) Of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 8: 2: "a Minister of the [heavenly] Sanctuary" (NKJV).

2) Didomi-- Strong's #1325-- a verb, usually meaning to give.

a) Of communication of our mouth, Eph. 4: 29: "minister" (KJV); "impart" (NKJV; RSV).

3) Epichoreegeo-- Strong's #2023-- a verb. (No references to Women "ministers".)

a) Of God, 2 Cor. 9: 10-- Masculine Participle-- "he that ministereth" (KJV); "He who supplies" (NKJV).

b) Of God, Gal. 3: 5-- Masculine Participle-- "He that ministereth" (KJV); "He who supplies" (NKJV).

c) Of the Head, Col. 2: 19-- "ministered" (KJV).

d) Of the believer, 2 Peter 1: 5-- "add to your faith" (KJV)

e) 2 Peter 1: 11-- "an entrance shall be ministered unto you" (KJV).

4) Hieroupgeo , Strong's #2418, usually means priesthood. 4 occurrences. Gives no references to women as "ministers."

a) Of Paul, Romans 15: 16-- "ministering the gospel of God" (KJV; NKJV).

5) Parecho-- Strong's # 3930-- verb: usually means "to offer," "give," "brought," "kept."

a) Of fables and genealogies, 1 Tim. 1: 4, "minister questions" (KJV), "cause disputes" (NKJV); "promote" (CSB).

6) Hypereteo-- Strong's #5256-- verb, "to serve," "to minister," "to provide for."

a) Of David, Acts 13: 36, "served" (KJV; NKJ).

b) Of Paul's hands, Acts 20: 34, "ministered" (KJV); "provided" (NKJV).

c) Of Paul's acquaintances, Acts 24: 23, "minister" (KJV); "to provide for" (NKJV).

7) Hyperetes-- Strong's #5257-- noun: servants, officers, ministers, attendants.

a) Of eye-witnesses of the Lord, including apostles, disciples, women followers, Luke 1: 2, "ministers of the word," (KJV; NKJV; RSV; ); "servants of the word" (NASB; NIV).

b) Of the Jewish attendant in the synagogue, Luke 4: 20, "minister," (KJV); "attendant" (NKJV).

c) Of John, Acts 13: 5, "minister" (KJV); "assistant" (NKJV); "to assist" (RSV); "helper" (NIV).

d) Of Paul, Acts 26: 16, "to make thee a minister" (KJV); "to appoint you to serve" (RSV); "to appoint you as a servant" (NIV).

e) Of Paul and Apollos, 1 Cor. 4: 1, "ministers" (KJV); "servants" (NKJV; NIV; RSV; NASB).

8) Epichoreegeo-- Strong's #5523-- to supply further, to superadd, to supply

a) Of God, 2 Cor. 9: 10, "minister bread," (KJV).

b) Of ability that God gives his ministers or servants [diakoneo with masculine indefinite pronoun, hence: "if any man minister" KJV], 1 Peter 4: 11, "the ability which God giveth" (KJV); "supplies" (NKJV).

Regards,
"John 3: 17"

So far, I've posted all the verses that deal with deacons, ministers, elders. Of these, the only ones that refer to women are Luke 1: 2; Romans 16: 1, 3; 1 Tim 3: 11; 5: 2; and Titus 2: 3.

Now, below, please find all the verses that refer to bishops, overseers and pastors. On a separate post, I will give the remainder of the words-- about 10-- dealing with church officers.

1) Poimeen-- Strong's #4166: Pastor, shepherd, superintendent, guardian.

a) Verses where it means "shepherd" and is so translated: Matt. 9: 36; 25: 32; 26: 31; Mark 6: 34; 14: 27; Luke 2: 8, 15, 18, 20; John 10: 2, 11, 12, 14, 16; Hebrews 13: 20; 1 Peter 2: 25.

b) Of the spiritual gifts in the church, Eph. 4: 11-- "pastors" (noun plural masculine). The fact that both "pastors and teachers" have only one definite article shows these two spiritual gifts are given to the same individual.

2) Episkopos-- Strong's #1985-- bishop, overseer. All are masculine gender and refer to men.

a) Acts 20: 28-- "overseers" (RSV; NIV).

b) Phil. 1: 1-- "bishops" (RSV); "overseers" (NIV).

c) 1 Tim. 3: 2-- "bishop" (RSV); "overseer" (NIV).

d) Of overseers', or bishops', qualifications, Titus 1: 7-- "bishop" (RSV); "overseer" (NIV).

e) Of Christ, 1 Peter 2: 25-- "guardian" (RSV); "overseer" (NIV; NKJV).

3) Episkopee-- Strong's #1984-- fem. noun (for definition, see below).

a) Luke 19: 44-- "visitation" (RSV; NRSV; NKJV); "of God's coming" (NIV)

b) Acts 1: 20-- "office" (RSV; NASB); "place of leadership" (NIV). NASB, margin: "office of overseer."

c) 1 Tim. 3: 1-- "office of bishop" (RSV); "overseer" (NIV).

d) 1 Peter 2: 12-- "visitation" (RSV; NKJV); "comes to judge" (NRSV); "visits" (NIV).

Next will come about 10 more NT words related to church leadership and officers.

Regards,
"John 3: 17"

Peers? Oh my! What of one who is a peer unto himself ;-) ?

I’m dissuaded from becoming invested in this issue as – I’m of a mind that those who advise against and actually proscribe women from serving the Lord in which/whatever capacity – are more chauvinistic than Biblical.

I note that the books Timothy and Titus are much depended-upon as valid(?) sources upon which to plant the anti-distaff banner. Would it tend to signify if it is reminded that

those letters are simply Pastorals.

All this recourse to Greek compels me to ask – what of Junia the Apostle? or, disregarding that, what of the fact that the first Evangelists to proclaim (correct me should I err) of Jesus Christ – both before the crucifixion and after – were women; that is, the Samaritan woman at the well in Jesus Christ’s first year of ministry – and St Mary after the Resurrection.

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

St Paul seems to have set forth in Ephesians a hierarchical order – beginning with Apostles and devolving from that... Disregarding the minority view obtaining per Junia

it seems it is posited that women performed in the roles Apostle, prophet, evangelist, teachers, etc – with the exception being that it was/is unacceptable they perform(ed) as “pastors”?

(might not the conjunction in "pastors and teachers" actually function conjugally?

Okay, perhaps, more immediately, precedent ought obtain and women might be ordained ministers as was the most noteworthy of the .Org.

(1 Corinthians 11 and 14 are seen as yet another of St Paul’s peculiar ‘post and pillar’ peculiararities... that require diligent cogitation)