However you want to twist it John it is still salvation by one's goodness! What did EGW state concerning perfection?

"Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ. Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation....This is the condition in which those must be found [not should aim to be found] who shall stand in the time of trouble."




Yes, but He didn't say or else! Plus you need to look at the context. The context isn't referring to the Ten Commandments.

15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— ...for he lives with you and will be in you...."

If this was referring to the Ten Commandments Jesus would be asking the impossible. Why? Because Christ can't demand commandment keeping BEFORE one has the Holy Spirit! Context!

If she is wrong where you don't agree with her, how do you know that you are not wrong also where you do agree with her?

Gerry [/quote]

Gerry...again...I use EGW in talking to Adventist. She isn't my pope.

What's wrong with the phrase, "making the atonement for us"?

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his [agape] love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Paul tells us that we have already "received the atonement". But it seems that EGW states that God is still "making the atonement for us"....Complete? or uncomplete? The latter would require salvation by works to make it complete. Hence legalism abounds !

Apparently when Satan accused God, saying nobody could obey His Law, he was correct then?

Graeme

If she is wrong where you don't agree with her, how do you know that you are not wrong also where you do agree with her?

Gerry [/quote]



In other words, it seems to me, you are saying you just use her whenever you find it convenient to prove your point. For instance, you like the fact that she says there will be people in heaven who have never heard the gospel, even though there is nothing in the Bible about that. So if she agrees with you, you apparently have no trouble using her, but if she does not agree with you, then you refer to her as "legalistic," "pope," etc. Is this true or am I totally wrong?

Would you like to discuss the subject of the atonement in depth? It's an important one.

The sacrifice of Christ-- that is, the shedding of His precious blood, the dying-- was a once-for-all, unrepeatable event. That was full and complete. But that is only part of the atonement. It is illustrated in the sanctuary service. The killing of the lamb-- which was a type of the shedding of Christ's blood on calvary's cross-- was only a part of the atonement. The blood had to be applied in the holy places, didn't they? That was also an essential aspect of the atonement. What Christ is doing now in the heavenly sanctuary is just as essential for our salvation as was his death.

Someone should invite Tom Hughes here

I didn't know that he actually said this. Would you be so kind to give me that Bible quote?

Robert

Sure there is.....That's where I got it from, the Bible. Go re-read what I said there.




Bingo!



I can't agree with some legalistic statements she makes. Some SDA make her pope Ellen. It's just that simple.

Would you like to discuss the subject of the atonement in depth? It's an important one. [/quote]

No, it's not important to me. I have assurance because by faith I stand complete "in Christ"! I have received the atonement. I have been reconciled to the Father by Christ's doing and dying. By faith I have accepted the truth as it is "in Christ". At the 2nd coming I will fully experience and receive what is true of me "in Christ".

Right now I am both a sinner, but "in Christ" 100% righteous. At the resurrection I will actually be righteous. One is by faith the other is by reality. I am waiting for the reality. In the meantime as long as my faith remains in the Beloved I am saved. But I am also being saved because ultimately, until I actually receive my glorified life, I have yet to fully receive the benefits of Christ's complete atonement. Therefore I was saved "in Christ" some 2000 years ago. I received that truth and as long as I have Christ I am saved. But I must keep my faith in Him and therefore I am being saved, while saved, until I receive what is true of me "in Christ."

You are placing the Testimonies on equal billing with the Bible. This is the mark of a cult!

And what is He doing?

Col 1:21 And you, who once were estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, [Eph says the same: "we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath...."]verse 22 "but He has now reconciled us [where?] in his body of flesh by his death, [why?] in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before Him [God], 23 provided that you continue [to keep the whole law...No?]

23 provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Notice that "in Christ" you are "holy and blameless"! By faith Christ presents you perfect in Himself.

Could you please precisely define what a cult is? It is very easy to throw stigmatized names around but we need to define exactly what is meant. It was earlier posted that we cannot understand God's agape love. I find the Bible says different. Agreeing that you can use sister White's writings when they agree with your position and reject them when you don't like what they say completely destroys any credibility. If she was not inspired then she has no credibility at all! From your position you then are using a non credible source as verification of your position!

"A group or sect that arrives at its doctrine by other means than the Bible alone."





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We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. ....When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves, to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition, and worship they know not what.

If she is wrong where you don't agree with her, how do you know that you are not wrong also where you do agree with her?

Gerry [/quote]

Gerry...again...I use EGW in talking to Adventist. She isn't my pope. [/quote]

You have no credibility whatsoever when you take only the ones you agree with and disregard those that contradict your views. That's dishonesty of the grossessed kind.

Gerry

And what does "continue in the faith" mean? Same old life of sin?

Here is what Paul wrote to the Thessalonians: "We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers, remembering without ceasing your WORK OF FAITH, LABOR OF LOVE, and patience of hope..." 1 Thes 1:2,3 NKJ.

Faith is not just some mental assent to propositional truth. Faith like love is a living, breathing, working truth. Then Paul adds:

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, LIKE the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter.....For God did not call us to uncleannness, but in HOLINESS [same Gk word for sanctification]. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given as His Holy Spirit." 1 Thes 4:3-8 NKJ.

So, what does continueing in the faith mean? According to Paul in this letter, it is continueing in a faith that works, a faith that abstain from immorality and uncleanness of any kind. If a believer is doing this, he/she would have to be keeping the law!!! Legalism, huh?

And horrors!!! Paul tells the Thessalonians, "...work with your own hands, as we commanded you, that you may walk PROPERLY toward those who are outside, AND THAT YOU MAY LACK NOTHING!" 4:11,12 NKJ.

What? Work so that they won't lack anything instead of "so your neighbor won't lack anything?"

Gerry

Would you like to discuss the subject of the atonement in depth? It's an important one. [/quote]

No, it's not important to me. I have assurance because by faith I stand complete "in Christ"! I have received the atonement. I have been reconciled to the Father by Christ's doing and dying. By faith I have accepted the truth as it is "in Christ". At the 2nd coming I will fully experience and receive what is true of me "in Christ".

Right now I am both a sinner, but "in Christ" 100% righteous. At the resurrection I will actually be righteous. One is by faith the other is by reality. I am waiting for the reality. In the meantime as long as my faith remains in the Beloved I am saved. But I am also being saved because ultimately, until I actually receive my glorified life, I have yet to fully receive the benefits of Christ's complete atonement. Therefore I was saved "in Christ" some 2000 years ago. I received that truth and as long as I have Christ I am saved. But I must keep my faith in Him and therefore I am being saved, while saved, until I receive what is true of me "in Christ."

[/quote]

All the while practicing selfishness? Haven't you been preaching that there will be NO selfishness in heaven? Do you have some special dispensation to practice selfishness but yet allowed to go in?

Gerry

If you would have read what I said above we wouldn't be having this conversation. Here it is again:

"At the 2nd coming I will fully experience and receive what is true of me "in Christ"."

Gerry, face it - you are selfish...you are falling short of God's love. He gave up everything...even heaven...so that you could have it without Him. That love was revealed at the cross. So please don't lie and tell me you are living His life. Do not let Satan convince you that you are Holy and selfless....Repent!

Nobody believes everything EGW wrote. And this is one of those to not believe.
It is rather self serving isn't it?

This is the problem with some SDAs. They want to place her as an infallible guide. She was inspired to give certain messages to us. She was not inspired to say every word that came out of her mouth or written down to any and every individual for her entire lifetime. NO prophet has ever been put in that position. And EGW should not be either.

In with the good ... out with the bad. Robert's approach is exactly the correct one.

AMEN. And praise God we will be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye and be fit for heaven . Ellen puts it in a beautiful way.

How do you know? What if you are wrong?

Gerry

IF I am wrong ??? The blood of Jesus saves me ... not my knowledge or my works. I will stick with what I find in the Bible. I think I am safest with that.

If you would have read what I said above we wouldn't be having this conversation. Here it is again:

"At the 2nd coming I will fully experience and receive what is true of me "in Christ"."[/quote]

New birth by and by?

"I tell you the truth, unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Jn 3:3 NIV.
"TODAY, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."

Conversion at the Second Coming? Guys, if I am wrong I have nothing to lose. If you are mistaken in thinking that you can hang on to willful/deliberate sin until the Lord comes and believing that you will be separated from it at that time, you have everything to lose.

Gerry

So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!" 1 Cor 10:12 NIV

Gerry

I have good news for you Gerry. This is the first time I agree with you. You have nothing to lose for you are saved. Praise God. Even despite your understanding of God ... at the second coming ... He will fill you in with the blessing of the full knowledge of Salvation.

BTW Gerry ... you had asked for more of Tom Hughes .... So I posted a "Part 2 " in a new thread.