Personal preference for me is to use 'h' instead of 'ee.' Am at home right now, but I believe the verse in question reads, 'h proth,' in N-A 26th.

Dave

I believe that in the case of Heb. 9: 2, skeenee is used as a collective noun because the sanctuary consisted of two parts or two rooms.

All through the NT, except, significantly, for Hebrews 11:9, it is in the singular, although plainly it is describing two places.

I would have to disagree with that. Note v. 1, the reference is a continuation of ch. 8, no chapter or verse breaks appearing in the original. H proth is the continuing reference. 'First' in v. 1 pertains to the first or old covenant, NOT to the first tent or apartment of the earthly sanctuary.

hagion kosmikon (accusative singular) pertains to h prwth. V. 2 is different. In v. 2, the 'first tent' (H . . . proth skhnh) is described SEPARATELY from the 'second tent.' 'First' in v. 2, in contrast to v. 1, describes the first apartment of the sanctuary, oddly enough called the 'first tent.' It is indeed separately described and separately treated.

My explanation in regard to the diacritical marks on hagia, v. 2? Elementary, my dear fellow . . . The diacritical marks were not Paul's or his writing assistant's. They did not appear in the original. They are not inspired, just like the punctuation in the English translations. They are man's idea of how someone thinks it should be. Thus, we don't know Paul's intent with regard to hagia. It could be taken either way.

Aside from that, I do not believe in verbal inspiration.

All through the NT, except, significantly, for Hebrews 11:9, it is in the singular, although plainly it is describing two places.

Please provide cites. It looks like there are twenty or so occurrences of the word in various forms, in the NT. I have not taken the time to look them all up.

Dave

At Acts 7: 33 and Exodus 3:5 (LXX), the words translated "holy ground" are both in the singular. The adjective there agrees in number and gender with the noun, earth (Gk, gee).

As for why the sanctuary is referred to by the plural, hagia, it is used in the plural neuter because the Hebrew sanctuary had two compartments, and also because, as Hebrews 9: 1-4 explains, it held the numerous holy things, such as the alter of incense, the lampstand, the table of showbread, and the ark of the covenant. Therefore the entire sanctuary is referred to, literally, as the holies, or holy places. Even when referring to only the first compartment, or holy place, the original Greek has the plural, "holies."

Yes, and some confusion has resulted, I think. It is good to be able to compare with the original.

Well, I think this whole discussion of hagia has been very fruitful. At this point in time, I would like to proceed to another interesting Greek word, this one occurring in Hebrews 4:0. The word is 'sabbatismos.' I do not now have time to share research on it. We are just beginning an evangelistic push out here, and I won't be able to get back to this for a few weeks. Meanwhile, I wonder if John317 would have time or interest to begin reviewing the word, which I believe only occurs once in the Greek NT, but does occur elsewhere in Greek literature?

Dave



Yes, I agree that "first" is a reference to the first apartment in the sanctuary. It can be taken to mean "first part" or "first room." In other words, the word "part" or "apartment," is to be added, just as the word "covenant" is added in first verse.

Here in this verse, I take "tabernacle" [skhnh] to mean the sanctuary as a whole, and not just the first room. So it is the first room or first part of the sanctuary in which the lamp-stand and other holy things are placed.

Paul is here making a clear distinction between the two parts of the tabernacle, which, as you've pointed out, consists of two apartments.

A half dozen translations of this verse will suffice to show this as a legitimate way of understanding and translating it:

1) New King James Version: "For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lamp-stand, the table, and the show-bread, which is called the sanctuary; (v. 3) and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all."

2) New International Version: "A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lamp-stand, the table and the consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. (v. 3) Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place."

3) The English Standard Version: "For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lamp-stand and the table and the bread of Presence. It is called the Holy Place. (v. 3) Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place."

4) The Christian Standard Bible: "For a tabernacle was set up; and in the first room, which is called 'the holy place,' were the lamp-stand, the table, and the presentation loaves. (v. 3) Behind the second curtain, the tabernacle was called 'the holy of holies.'"

5) The New Jerusalem Bible: ""There was a tent which comprised two compartments: the first, in which the lamp-stand, the table and the loaves of permanent offering were kept, was called the Holy Place; (v. 3) then beyond the second veil, a second compartment which was called the Holy of Holies."

6) "Amplified Version: "For a tabernacle (tent) was erected, in the outer division or compartment of which were the lamp-stand and the table with [its loaves of] the show-bread set forth. [This portion] is called the Holy Place. (v. 3) But [inside] beyond the second curtain a veil, [there stood another] tabernacle [division] known as the Holy of Holies."

Over 20 translations render these verses similarly.

Also consider the following:

1) "skhnh h proth the front part of the tabernacle (and afterwards of the temple), the Holy place, Heb. ix. 2, 6, 8; of the Holy of holies, Heb. ix. 3." (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 578.)

2) "In Hebrews 9: 1 the earthly sanctuary is called to havion kosmikon, 'the earthly holy place.' A singular noun with a definite article is used (to hagion) to designate the sanctuary of the first (protee) covenant. This sanctuary had two apartments, here called "tents" (skhnh). The first is called hagia, literally, 'holies,' without a definite article, for with the article ta hagia designates the sanctuary as a whole and not merely one of the compartments (cf. 8:2). The second tent is called the hagia hagion, literally, 'holy of holies.' In verse 6 the priests enter continually into the first tent to perform their daily responsibilities. In verse 7, on the annual Day of Atonement, only the high priest enters the second tent. A contrast is implicit between the daily access of the priests to the holy place every day and the yearly access of the high priest once a year to the Most Holy Place." (Handbook of Seventh-day Adventist Theology, Commentary Reference Series, Volume 12, p. 412.)



Yes, this is very true, the accent marks are not part of the ancient manuscripts. I was referring to them as they occur in the printed Greek texts. You could, of course, discount the accent marks as they occur in the printed texts if you choose to, and consider hagia in Acts 7:33 as plural.



I don't believe that God dictated the words to the Bible writers, but I do believe that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit helped the writers choose the words in which to express the message.

In this connection, it's important to keep in mind that despite the differences between the Hebrew Scriptures and the Greek translation as it occurs in the Septuagint, Paul referred to both as the word of God. The Septuagint is often more of a paraphrase than a literal translation of the Hebrew.





In the book of Hebrews alone, the occurrences are:
Hebrews 8:2; 8: 5; 9: 1 (some copies, h prowth skhnh); 9:2, 3, 6, 9, 11, 21; 11: 9; 13: 10.

In Hebrews 8: 2 and 9:11 ths skhnhs, singular, refers to the entire sanctuary. (I did not mean to imply to all occurrences of the word refer to two places.)

Also, the singular, to hagion, does describe the two apartments in the LXX at Exodus 36: 3 and Number 3: 38. In Hebrews 9: 8, twn hagiwn refers to the entire sanctuary, not to a particular room in it.