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#168670 - 04/28/08 01:14 AM Re: ICR Denied Authority to Grant Degrees in TX [Re: Shane]
Vera Online   content


Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 130
Looks like they moved.
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#168684 - 04/28/08 03:38 AM Re: ICR Denied Authority to Grant Degrees in TX [Re: Vera]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16941
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Well if Wikipedia is right, they were definitely denied because they are teaching creationism.

"On April 22, 2008 education board's Academic Excellence and Research Committee unanimously voted against allowing the ICR to issue science degrees citing 'the institute’s program is infused with creationism and runs counter to conventions of science that hold that claims of supernatural intervention are not testable and therefore lie outside the realm of science.'"

Wikipedia also states, "California Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education granted the ICR religious exemption from postsecondary school requirements in California." I think that is the solution. Perhaps Texas doesn't have a "religious exemption" but it certainly should.
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#168690 - 04/28/08 04:21 AM Re: ICR Denied Authority to Grant Degrees in TX [Re: Shane]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16941
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
This one I find most amusing.

"Following the recent response from the ICR to the Board, Steven Schafersman, of the Texas Citizens for Science, reported that the ICR sent out 'prayer requests' and is currently arguing a creationist derived distinction of science in their application for approval."

As if ICR requesting prayer should be taken into consideration as to whether or not approve their application. It just goes to show the mindset that if someone believes in prayer they certainly are not qualified to teach science.
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#168838 - 04/29/08 05:59 PM Re: ICR Denied Authority to Grant Degrees in TX [Re: Shane]
Vera Online   content


Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 130
Should the state (and accreditation organizations) not have the option to deny such requests?

For example, anyone who wants such a graduate degree should get the kind that is generally recognized by scientists and relevant organizations. If they want further training in creationism, it seems like they'd be able to get it from something like ICR without having to worry about whether it's backed by the state.
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So love is greater than knowledge; how could I have forgotten? Annie Dillard, Holy the Firm | Wishing Doesn't Make It So

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#168869 - 04/30/08 12:02 AM Re: ICR Denied Authority to Grant Degrees in TX [Re: Vera]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16941
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Here is the catch. In order for the Christian colleges to be accredited their professors have to have a masters degree. If the state does not allow graduate programs that teach creation to grant master degrees in Science it is a back-door way of preventing Christian colleges that teach creation from being able to teach science. Thus it becomes a violation of the separation of church and state. It is telling Christian colleges that their professors must get a degree from a school that does not teach creation.

Note that California required ICR to teach evolution in addition to creation. Thus the graduates understand both world-views. I suspect the same requirement is placed on Adventist universities but I don't know that is true.

This is all about controlling how science is taught within Christian schools. That is the story here. Not happy with just being able to control what is being taught in the public school, "evolutionists" are now going after the religious classrooms too. All at a time when some want to discredit the premise of the movie "Expelled".
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#168891 - 04/30/08 02:46 AM Re: ICR Denied Authority to Grant Degrees in TX [Re: Shane]
Vera Online   content


Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 130
If one wants this to be about separation of church and state, then I suppose it can be stated that way.

One could also say that the state is telling the ICR that they can teach whatever they want, but they can't call it science. And truly, the ICR can teach whatever they want. The state isn't stopping them.

Anyway, Expelled was about intelligent design, not creationism or religion.
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So love is greater than knowledge; how could I have forgotten? Annie Dillard, Holy the Firm | Wishing Doesn't Make It So

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#169020 - 05/01/08 04:10 AM Re: ICR Denied Authority to Grant Degrees in TX [Re: Vera]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16941
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
But the same thing is being said about intelligent design. 'Call it what you want but it is not science' So it plays into this discussion.

The religious exemption that California offers is the correct way to handle it. If Texas wants to be consistent they can ban the teaching of creationism in the science classes offered by Adventist schools in Texas. That is where this could go. The religious exemption allows for religious beliefs to be taught in the science classroom of religious schools as long as evolution is also taught. So the students graduating such schools are still going to learn the same thing (evolution) that they would learn in a non-religious school. But they would also learn about religious teachings on the issue too. That sounds like a good policy. That makes California look a few steps ahead of Texas.
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