Now you are putting words in my mouth that I never put there...

Don't misunderstand me...



So let me get this straight....You assert that a person who pulls the lever on a game of change is addicted to the game....If the are addicted, they can not be saved.

Whoa! that's two pretty big assertions...and they
are ones that I am not willing to agree with.



I see addiction, in any form, as evil. Even the addiction to theology. And yeah, I do believe that those who are most zealous for Christ, are addicted to a type of control/power, especially when they suppress the urges of growth and freedom.



Then you will never grow out of the addiction that you have...And I believe that Christ Hisownself had some very stringent comments on the slave that did not use his talents-

So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.'

26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28" 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.Matthew 25:25-28



Tell me, do they refer to gambling as an addiction or to the occassional lottery? Do they apply to people who are taking a risk in business ventures or to every circumstance of gambling?



Yeah, well, most people who play the lottery do so out of entertainment...not the urge to gain riches...And let's face it, addiction to gambling, is a powerful addiction...and, thankfully, one that can be overcome and an addiction to which, I am sure, every one of those EGW quotes do apply.

But since you are asserting that ANYONE who plays is automatically addicted, is an assertion which you would be hard pressed to show by experience as true.

And let's also face it...God may be asking you to purchase that one $1 ticket to support some ministrys that He has, because He knows He can count on you to support them.....after you set aside enough for your childrens college education, 401K, and support those people in the church who are struggling....That's between you and God, me thinks....

I would give 9.7M to my local church, buy a modest home and a new car, invest some and give away the rest.

Playing checkers is just a waste of time imo. If she said it leads to gambling, I believe it.

I think she was talking about bicycle racing as an exhibition, similarly, today we have race-car races. They where also very expensive then:



To say she condemns "bicycling" is not justice. That word is not found in E.G. White writings. Bicycling for exercise or transportation is ok. What she was talking about was an "exhibition".

But do you feel deprived 'cause you're not allowed to play checkers?

Does anybody else recall the case that happened about 1-2 years ago in a South American or Central American nation (can't recall exactly which one)? It was discussed on this forum at the time.

An Adventist person won a large sum of money in a lottery. He (I believe it was a "he") gave 10% to the church as tithe. The church accepted the money, and then disfellowshipped him for gambling.

Thoughts, anyone?

aldona

Pretty hipocritical I would say. I think that they should have not accepted the money.

pkrause

The church is totally within it's rights to disfellowship someone for gambling. The #2 listed reasons for discipline in the church manual states the following reasons ...

"stealing, profanity, GAMBLING, Sabbathbreaking, and willful and habitual falsehood."

These can all be reasons for disfellowship.

But ... I could not find any mention of accepting monies from gambling as a reason for disfellowship. So, the church is within it's rights to accept the money as I read the manual.

Spending time on internet forums is a waste of time too... But are all non-productive time consuming activities sinful and do they lead to gambling? Exactly how does one go about doing a time spent/moral benefit analysis in order to determine the moral merit/time value of doing (or not doing) anything? And by the way, how often have you actually witnessed (or even heard of) gambling on checkers?



Actually no. She was most concerned about the waste of money to buy a bicycle. ($40-$100 - which actually cost less than a good horse.) And the bicycling craze in Battle Creek she was specifically addressing was bicycling for exercise which was being promoted by JH Kellogg over at the Battle Creek Sanitarium. One example of the "exhibition" quite possibly was Kellogg riding endlessly in great circles out in front of the Sanitarium. (See - Kellogg history) Or quite possibly it was the "exhibition" of women riding bicycles in their bloomers... EGW took a dim view of any recreational exercise, whether sports or exercises in a gymnasium. Her view was that productive physical labor in the fresh air was the best way to get exercise.

And yes, the bicycle was in fact considered to be a good and economical transportation alternative for the working man of the day. (Do a bit of research on the history of bicycling...)

Bicycle Club - Battle Creek - circa 1895 (Doesn't look like a bicycle racing club to me.)

If it was only about bicycle racing then why not be equally fair and say that one should not spend money on a horse since horse racing ( and gambling on it) had been around for centuries. Riding a horse leads to racing and gambling more so than playing checkers does...

Tom

I always think about this. I would do it anonymously, or if they kicked me out I would go start my own church.

Hmmmmm......maybe to be good and fair, **IF** I should win the lottery, maybe I will set aside some money, to be willed to the church after I die....

Maybe that way they will keep me around for some 'small' projects....

Neil. I am sure they would keep YOU around just for the humor of it. You wouldn't need to bribe them with your money. And Neil ... You are more than just a 'small' project.