We as Seventh Day Adventists believe the Separation of church and state is crucial to our well being. I come across alot of Christians who believe this a christian nation and therefore homosexual marriage would violate our founding fathers intent for our fair country.

I understand and beleive what the bible says about Homosexualty. The Christian RIGHT also believe it is their GOD Given Commision to ENFORCE their belief system on other americans. The 1st amendment clearly says that we as a nation cannot as a nation establish(force) a religion on people who dont beleive as we do.

As SDA's we know full well what forcing doctrine on others can and will do. Many Homosexuals do not prescribe to the levitical OT laws and should not be forced to adhere to them by governmental laws.

All americans have the same rights as all americans. It has taken hundreds of years for americans to figure that out and still many americans STILL dont believe all men and woman are created equal.

As Christians we have been blessed to live in a land that grants us basic rights for human beings. God has given all men rights to choose how we should live that many countrys do not recognize.

Many christians have used the Bible to keep slavery and mysogeny and prohibition of whites and blacks marrying. It wasnt about God's will it was about fear and greed. And Use the BIBLE as back up?

If this was a theocracy (as in ancient Israel) then we would banish more than Homosexualty and fornication (heterosex outside of marriage), adultry, blaspemy,disrespcting parents,murming and complaining, false accusations in court,cherishing something other than GOD, ect.

and some people in the USA would not be happy to just stop the above..

if it feels good-stop it
if it looks good-dont wear it
if it tastes good-spit it out

But this is America- a republic/democracy.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of(OT Levitical/Paul's epistles Christian laws) religion or prohibiting the free exercise(Sabbathkeeping) thereof."

We as SDA's know how important the right to pursure our God according to what our belief is. In other countries they appreciate it much more than us. Our commission is to spread the Gospel of JESUS Christ / Three angels message.Anything else is just playing church

It shares Gods Love for man and we are sinners.
He imparts repentance and grace for all sinners if we choose to Trust and Obey.

Seeing the christians gearing up in california with feathers in a ruffle and claws out with millions of bucks and talents and time to fight their equal americans for rights that they take lightly themselves(50% divorce rate like the worldlings) is repugnant to God.

They arent fulfilling the Gospel commision by doing that no matter what their seared their concience tells them.

They are just alienating more people from God by their ugly zeal.
Jesus said "If I be lifted up- I will draw all me".

not berating sinners adnaseum and making them feel like they should sit in the back of the bus cause they less deserving of happiness and rights in this sin sick world.

I will share a few thoughts.

Marriage is a religious institution. It was created by religion. The civil government recognizes this institution but it is not an invention of civil government.

Families are the building blocks of society. Not all marriages produce children but many do. This was even more true before the invention of birth control. The family unit provides the structure where children are taught right and wrong, how to treat others, a work ethic and religious principles. None of these things can be done as effectively in a setting outside the home.

A gay lifestyle is one that is chosen. Some may argue that many gays are born gay - and they may be right. It could be a birth defect. Regardless of that, to act out on the desires is still a conscience decision which is made. We cannot compare this to skin color or sex and remain intellectually honest. A woman doesn't choose to be a woman. An Asian doesn't choose to be an Asian. They are born that way and there is no changing it.

The gay lifestyle does not promote a healthy community. Gays are much more likely to spread STDs than married heterosexual couples. Studies have also shown that gays are more apt to struggle with emotional disorders, suicidal tendencies, alcoholism and drug addiction. There has been some studies that suggest domestic abuse is more prevalent among gays. Extended families (aunts, grandparents, cousins, siblings, etc.) all living within the same community make the best communities. Public policy should be such that it encourages this. Since the gay lifestyle is less likely to produce children, it is less likely to produce extended families and thus should not be promoted as part of public policy.

Civil unions should be created to allow gay persons some of the rights given to married couples but shouldn't be done in a way so as to encourage the behavior. Gay couples should be able to visit each other in hospitals and prisons. Gays should have access to insurance for their partners from insurance companies that offer domestic partnership insurance (insurance companies shouldn't be required to offer such policies). Gays should get any tax breaks afforded to married couples. Gays should be allowed spousal Social Security benefits. Resident or any legal status should not be granted to foreigners desiring a civil union with an American citizen as that would encourage the behavior instead of simply accommodating it.

You are making a fundamental error. The first amendment speaks to the establishment of a religion, not to the application of particular biblical texts, one way or the other.

The 10 Commandments also prohibit murder, but that does not mean that the government is establishing a religion by also prohibiting murder.

But there are plenty of reasons why a state might choose to ban homosexual marriage, which have nothing to do with textual evidence from the Bible.

So the argument that prohibiting gay marriage, so-called, violates the First Amendment is specious. It may be a bad idea, it may be a good idea, but it has nothing to do with the First Amendment.

The Amendment that the christian right movement wants to pass dont want gays to have marrital rights of visit their partners in hospitals and such or to be recognized in any way shape or form.

They are many more STDs spread about by hetero fornicators to each other. Gays spread STD..thats a reason why gays shouldnt have marrital monogamous unions?????

And many straight people get married who dont have children by choice or health or other reasons. They still have the RIGHT to get married.

And most people I know do not bow or recogognize God or religion do get married in church or City Hall.

Christians use the BIBLE to give creedance and honour to their own fear and hate.

Its because they dont believe gays are equal to them.

Homos are inferior.
Their love for their partner should not be sanctioned cause its wrong in their own eyes.
It will bring about God's wrath(BTW its coming but not because of the small percentage of gays in the world's sins only).
It threatens hetero marriages(pssst...50% divorce rate and all that adultry and abuse in your own church backyard dont weaken marriage.. hmmm? talk about a BEAM in your own eyes!)

what does that mean? Marriage is a religious institution?

Well yes it is! created by GOD in the Garden of Eden for Adam and Eve. That and the Sabbath.

Its divine. It was also created for mankind hopefully get a glimpse of a GOD Union of Himself and mankind. Its perfect!

and how many here have witnessed a marriage that was like God's love for man and man's devotion to God?

and sinful man(hetero) have perverted it with its abuse of their women and children.

So now the Christians are upset that gays who have rights in America want to be recognized as equal.

Many christian homosexuals do not believe in the Levitical Laws and bigoted heavyhanded interpretations of zealous Bible Thumpers. It does not make sense to them. and Most straight christians in the USA dont EVEN prescribe to the levitical laws either and deny the Ten Commandments as being relevent, so christian Gays are trying to make sense of it all and it dont make sense...

and because of the hatred and fear practiced in the daily lives of straight christian the gay christians (who longed for a GOD who really loves and wants them) started their own churches and movements in established churches. THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT ALSO IN america

and they are non religious gays who dont recognize or bow to God in their lives who want to live their lives as equal citizens.

So saying Marriage is a religiouse institution is irrelevent in their own lives cause they arent religiouse. Just like the hetero counterparts.

the Gays in america have the right to bear arms
and freedom of speech and peaceful assembly and
voting in elections
buying a house...




..to not practice the christian/judao religion.

In America!

.

Gays have precisely the same right to get married as anyone else. Any competent unmarried male can marry any competent unmarried female, so long as they both are willing. There is nothing in the law that bars a homosexual or lesbian from getting married.

What is desired is for a man to marry a man, or woman to marry a woman. That requires a change in the definition of marriage. But there's nothing that says that gay man can't marry a woman, etc..

Once we start redefining what a marriage is, there are no practical limits to that. The definition of marriage, as consisting of one man and one woman simply recognizes what it takes to make a productive pair, who can form the basis of a family, without medical intervention. The fact that that doesn't always happen doesn't change the practical reality.

To be somewhat crude, one man and one woman can mate, produce offspring and become a family. if they were on a desert island, they might even start their own civilization. This demonstrates the simple fact that monogamous marriage is indeed the foundation stone of civilization.

Even if a man has numerous wives, or a wife as numerous husbands, they can only mate one on one.
A man and a man, or a woman and a woman, may do many things, but they cannot mate and produce offspring without a third-party.

So the one man one woman definition of marriage need not be founded on the Bible, but on simple physiology.

This is the point. Marriage comes to us (society) from religion. It was not something that some ancient government or philosopher invented. Civil governments recognize marriage and even perform marriage ceremonies. But the definition of it comes from religion. Baptism is similar. Although civil governments do not perform baptism, they do issue birth certificates and recognize baptismal certificates as a form of identification. Baptism is not defined by the civil government even though it is recognized by that same government. Civil unions are to marriage what are birth certificates to baptismal certificates.

As a nation that values freedom we should accommodate gays. By changing the definition of marriage on the federal level gay US citizens would be allowed to marriage non-citizens. After three years the non-citizen could become a citizen divorce the spouse and both would then be free to marry two more non-citizens and do the same thing again. This would promote the gay lifestyle in the US by allowing the population of gays to grow astronomically over a short time. That would be far beyond accommodation and become promotion. Civil unions on a state level would provide domestic couples with the same rights as a married couple while not allowing them to bring non-citizens into the county.