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#174148 - 06/22/08 04:21 AM Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law
Amelia Administrator Offline
Here Forever, by Request :)

Registered: 07/30/01
Posts: 17893
Loc: Out standing in a field
I had never read this before. It explains very clearly why the Catholic church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. A very inlightening read.



DIES DOMINI

OF THE HOLY FATHER JOHN PAUL II

TO THE BISHOPS, CLERGY AND FAITHFUL OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

ON KEEPING THE LORD'S DAY HOLY

Quote:
From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!


Quote:
The day of rest

66. Finally, it should not be forgotten that even in our own day work is very oppressive for many people, either because of miserable working conditions and long hours — especially in the poorer regions of the world — or because of the persistence in economically more developed societies of too many cases of injustice and exploitation of man by man. When, through the centuries, she has made laws concerning Sunday rest, (109) the Church has had in mind above all the work of servants and workers, certainly not because this work was any less worthy when compared to the spiritual requirements of Sunday observance, but rather because it needed greater regulation to lighten its burden and thus enable everyone to keep the Lord's Day holy. In this matter, my predecessor Pope Leo XIII in his Encyclical Rerum Novarum spoke of Sunday rest as a worker's right which the State must guarantee. (110


The whole letter:
http://www.cin.org/jp2/diesdomi.html
_________________________
"Earth - insane asylum for the universe." - Maxine

" Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him..."1 John 2:15-16

Fairview Or

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#174152 - 06/22/08 04:43 AM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Amelia]
Beryl Offline


Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
Hmmmm! Very interesting. They still have not produced a text to prove it!!! It is still MAN taking it upon himself to tell God what to do!

Beryl
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."

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#174160 - 06/22/08 05:32 AM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Amelia]
John317 Global Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 7563
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Amelia
I had never read this before. It explains very clearly why the Catholic church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. A very inlightening read.



DIES DOMINI

OF THE HOLY FATHER JOHN PAUL II

TO THE BISHOPS, CLERGY AND FAITHFUL OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

ON KEEPING THE LORD'S DAY HOLY

[quote]From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead.

...The whole letter:
http://www.cin.org/jp2/diesdomi.html


It's interesting to notice, though, that the Catholic Church and the papacy is particular are no longer publicly claiming that there is no Bible evidence for Sunday-keeping. Instead, today the Catholic church is talking about the change as if it took place back in the early days of the church, shortly after Christ's resurrection. In other words, the Catholic Church is speaking the same kind of language about this issue as Sunday-keeping protestants. It has been a long time since the Pope claimed the Roman Catholic Church or the pope changed it. That's an interesting, significant difference: "Christians saw... they made," rather than, as it used to be put, "we saw" or "we made."

I have some old Catholic books which teach that the NT says nothing about the change, but today we hear Catholics referring to such texts as 1 Cor 16: 2 as evidence for Sunday keeping, even though educated Catholics know (or at least used to know) that Paul was not referring to a church meeting on Sunday but rather to saving up money in one's private home.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats


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#174163 - 06/22/08 05:49 AM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Beryl]
John317 Global Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 7563
Loc: CA
Of course the Roman Catholic Church does not believe there is a necessity of showing Bible proof in support of the change. The Vatican itself is quite comfortable with church tradition as the source of the change. It echos the language of the protestants in regard to Sunday, not because it believes it must do it in order to have authority to celebrate it, but rather in order to be agreeable with protestants on the issue. Protestants do not like having it pointed out that every time they keep Sunday, they are acknowledging the authority of the pope. That is another statement the Church used to make but makes no longer, at least as far as I've seen.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats


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#174174 - 06/22/08 05:34 PM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: John317]
Amelia Administrator Offline
Here Forever, by Request :)

Registered: 07/30/01
Posts: 17893
Loc: Out standing in a field
Doesn't the Catholic curch see the pope as God and therefore anything he says is truth?
_________________________
"Earth - insane asylum for the universe." - Maxine

" Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him..."1 John 2:15-16

Fairview Or

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#174309 - 06/23/08 12:33 PM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Amelia]
John317 Global Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 7563
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Amelia
Doesn't the Catholic curch see the pope as God and therefore anything he says is truth?


The average Catholic doesn't. They respect the pope but most Catholics generally do not consider everything he says as necessarily true.

What he says "ex-cathedra" is a different matter. That is, what the pope says officially in his position as Pope, or Vicar of Christ, is considered the truth, such as when he writes his encyclicals.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats


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#174820 - 06/28/08 03:32 AM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: John317]
Tallmark Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 03/23/08
Posts: 51
Loc: Orlando, FL
I came out of that cult many years ago. I knew it was a strange religion when I was a child going to mass. Praise God I was never molested. Threatened and intimidated by the scary nuns, but never molested.

No matter what the pope says or does, the members are hypnotized, and feel some kind of strange tie to him. It's kind of the same way most blacks are loyal to Je$$e Jackson, Al Sharpton, and now Barak Obama.

That's why in Rev 21 and 22 when God mentions what types of people will not make it into the kingdom, he says those who love and believe a lie.

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#174848 - 06/28/08 08:39 AM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Tallmark]
Kountzer Offline


Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 544
Loc: Houston, Texas
You believe and have fallen in love with the lie that because you are a white, bigoted sda you are headed to heaven. Wrong.

DB
_________________________
Jesus Christ was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor.

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#174869 - 06/28/08 05:11 PM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Kountzer]
Redwood Online   content
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6863
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
You believe and have fallen in love with the lie that because you are a white, bigoted sda you are headed to heaven. Wrong. DB



Is this really necessary ???
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Another one of Woodies Goodies
Brought to you by Redwood ... a better tree for a new tomorrow.


Redwood

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#174872 - 06/28/08 05:34 PM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Redwood]
LynnDel Offline
Possibility person

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 2708
Loc: In transit
Out of the mouth, through the pen, and across the keyboard true colors are revealed.
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#174883 - 06/28/08 06:38 PM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Tallmark]
D. Allan Offline
Panning for gold

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3811
Loc: les Etats-Unis d'Amerique
But Mom, he started it:

Quote:
No matter what the pope says or does, the members are hypnotized, and feel some kind of strange tie to him. It's kind of the same way most blacks are loyal to Je$$e Jackson, Al Sharpton, and now Barak Obama.


I'm a white who admires Jesse, Al and Barak. (Even if they were Catholics I'd still be fans.)

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#174889 - 06/28/08 06:52 PM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Redwood]
Kountzer Offline


Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 544
Loc: Houston, Texas
Par for the course.
_________________________
Jesus Christ was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor.

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#174918 - 06/29/08 02:51 AM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Kountzer]
D. Allan Offline
Panning for gold

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3811
Loc: les Etats-Unis d'Amerique
Always happy to make par!

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#174944 - 06/29/08 05:26 AM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: D. Allan]
Kountzer Offline


Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 544
Loc: Houston, Texas
As you aptly stated D Allan, I like Jesse, Al and Barack. Perhaps I would like them even if they were Catholic. I don't follow them with a religious zeal. I've never seen any of them speak in person. I've never contributed any money to any of them. All three are sound bites to me. Wheter I am an ardent follower or not, all three men have the social and political dexterity to deal with strong opposition and keep at doing what ever it is they do. So I am not worried.

Conservative, suburban types find something endearing in the messages sent out by media personalities like Don Imus, and Rush Limbaugh. People of color tend to be accepting of Jesse and Al. That's basic human nature. Thank goodness we live in a country where divergent voices are allowed to speak and can be heard.

DB
_________________________
Jesus Christ was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor.

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#174971 - 06/29/08 05:43 PM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Kountzer]
D. Allan Offline
Panning for gold

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3811
Loc: les Etats-Unis d'Amerique
To me, Imus and Limbaugh lack even the tiniest shred of dignity.

All five are sound bites to me. But over time there have been enough bites to make a snack if not a meal - :) and I've found Imus and Rush to be tasteless.

The other three have 'class.'

/dAb

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#174977 - 06/29/08 07:45 PM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: D. Allan]
John317 Global Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 7563
Loc: CA

Never spent more than 2 minutes listening or watching Imus, but I do enjoy listening to Limbaugh. He's one of the best at what he does. Naturally, people don't have to agree with everything he says in order to find his program or his web-site worth while or interesting. In Hawaii, he's on one of the two AM radio stations for 3 hours every week-day. He's got lots of listeners so he must be doing something right.

_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats


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#174980 - 06/29/08 08:20 PM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: Kountzer]
John317 Global Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 7563
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Kountzer
...Conservative, suburban types find something endearing in the messages sent out by media personalities like Don Imus, and Rush Limbaugh. People of color tend to be accepting of Jesse and Al. That's basic human nature. Thank goodness we live in a country where divergent voices are allowed to speak and can be heard.

DB


It's great to live in a country where there are many divergent voices and beliefs expressed, both those on the left as well as on the right and in-between. One thing we don't want to do is denigrate individuals, or make personal attacks, because they hold beliefs different from ours.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats


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#174985 - 06/29/08 09:23 PM Re: Sabbath/Lords Day/Sunday Law [Re: John317]
Kountzer Offline


Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 544
Loc: Houston, Texas
Whatever. I don't like the tone of that guy's posts. I don't care for being thrown into one big bag and tossed aside. I'm all for civilitiy, but it is a two way street.

DB
_________________________
Jesus Christ was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor.

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