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#175122 - 07/01/08 02:08 AM Re: Something to Think About [Re: Bravus]
carolaa Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Texas
Just a general comment. I liked the article, and I liked Bravus's version. But weren't they both pretty much saying the same thing? What did I miss?

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#175126 - 07/01/08 02:30 AM Re: Something to Think About [Re: carolaa]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 7128
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
I guess my point was that I felt the 'over-regulating your industries' comment, for example, was a bit of right-wing spin on the first story... from my perspective much of the problem with energy in the US has been too little regulation rather than too much, although I recognise that's just an opinion.

Likewise with the whole 'the solution is to rape the earth much harder within the borders of the US' approach. That's a very short-term and short-sighted approach, because those reserves are still finite: the solution is replacing oil, not scraping out a little more oil.
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#175137 - 07/01/08 04:17 AM Re: Something to Think About [Re: Bravus]
carolaa Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Texas
OK, that makes sense. So, does anyone really know why gas prices are so high? Is it speculators? Who sets the price per barrel, and what is it based on?

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#175138 - 07/01/08 04:24 AM Re: Something to Think About [Re: carolaa]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 7128
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
There are a heap of factors. One is definitely speculation - or investment, depending on where you sit! But oil futures keep rising because businesses are willing to, say, buy oil for delivery next year at $100, even if it's only $80 now, because they're scared it will be $120 next year. But of course that becomes a vicious cycle.

Add to that the fact that (some folks' opinions aside) they're not making any more oil, but they are making lots more people, and a billion Indians and a billion and a half Chinese aspire to the standard of living (read 'energy consumption') we Westerners enjoy.

Add to that the effects of unrest in the Middle East, particularly threats against Iran by the US and Israel.

Add to that how close to full capacity we're running: one cyclone gets one refinery and we're into scarcity.

Add to that what's going on with Chavez in Venezuela.

Ad infinitum, almost.

It's a bit of a 'perfect storm' that has seen the price of oil triple in not much more than a year. It may fall back again at some point in the future, but I very much doubt we'll see $50/barrel oil ever again.
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#175142 - 07/01/08 04:33 AM Re: Something to Think About [Re: carolaa]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 17011
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
The price is set by what the market is willing to pay. That changes from day to day and speculators play a major role in that because they buy oil futures.

Regulation is a fine line. Not enough regulation and industries will take advantage of the people and the environment. Too much regulation and industry fails to provide jobs for the people and advancements in science and the arts.

Industry is a good thing but it needs some regulation. It is a friend of freedom and the engine that creates and maintains a healthy middle class. Unregulated industry can be an enemy of society as much as an over-regulating government.
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#175145 - 07/01/08 04:42 AM Re: Something to Think About [Re: Shane]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 7128
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Yep, agreed, definitely. What got my goat was 'too much regulation is why America hasn't got into alternative energy'? Doesn't make sense to me: some kind of regulation penalising energy waste and rewarding efficiency would seem to be the most useful way for government to be involved in the issue, in addition to funding research. Heck, if there were tax breaks for efficiency industry would fund the research itself.
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#175146 - 07/01/08 04:44 AM Re: Something to Think About [Re: Bravus]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 7128
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
The Chrysler PT Cruiser is an example of where regulation *hasn't* worked. That vehicle, which is a small car, actually had extra weight *added* so that it would be classified as a light truck. That enabled the manufacturer to average it in when calculating the emissions of the rest of its truck range, making that number look better... but at the expense of actually making the PT Cruiser use more fuel than it needed to.
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#175174 - 07/01/08 07:09 AM Re: Something to Think About [Re: Bravus]
jasd Offline


Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Oregon
I tend to agree with John317 and carolaa – though your version has more spritz.

>>...the Patek Philippe<<

The Patek Philppe, of course!

That said, America is not the only global auto manufacturer. So, where are the cold fusion engines, the hydrogen propelled, the yesterday’s get’um-up-go Jack Daniel whiz accelerant, etc? No optimal gel batteries, no water vapor exhaust, no antigravity, etc – just smaller and more dangerous little lawnmowers running down our major Interstates. ;-)

I drive a Suburban because – should I ever be so unfortunate as to become involved in an accident – I think my odds of being the one asking the question, “Hey, buddy, are you still alive?” – is much improved with a heavier automobile. Moreso,

the argument for a BIG car obtains – should my family be onboard.

But, I gotta admit, the gas is killing me!

Per regulations: killing us.

Per crude crud on our beaches: seems that most of the spills occurring are because of supertanker spills (hauling crude from elsewhere, rather than drilling). Spills in ANWR? I’d rather the old grannies in my town have heating oil – than worry ‘bout spills where not one of us in a score of millions will ever set foot or eye.

And, if it is cause for concern, we now have bacteria that consume crude oil.

Unsightly drilling platforms off our coasts? California disguises them to look like tropical islands, Cute, eh? As it is, China is currently contracting with Cuba to slant drill into our offshore Caribbean oil field(s).

I rather think US platforms will constitute less of an environmental hazard in our waters than those of China.

Today, rape, raze, and plunder: tomorrow, the stars! [/kidding!]

Oh, education? Spending lots and lots, sufficient unto the day, already.

Interestingly, until the recent run-up in crude prices our oil companies were able to purchase, refine, and transport a quart of oil to a local Service Station cheaper than the Post Office could deliver a one ounce envelope across the street.

>>...you'd own the technologies of the 21st century.<<

Some, what says, that we already have 21st century technologies in our Black Ops Programs. Unfortunately, the benefits are not meant to accrue to the hoi polloi. Sigh.


Lastly:

>>And the facts are that a majority of the oil used in the US is from the US and Canada (roughly 60-65%). ...<<

It doesn’t really matter a whole bunch to us where our oil originates if OPEC, operating as the cartel that it is, meets regularly to set and/or manipulate global crude prices by quota pumping – other considerations aside.

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#175239 - 07/02/08 01:37 AM Re: Something to Think About [Re: Bravus]
carolaa Offline


Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 1681
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Bravus
There are a heap of factors.

Ad infinitum, almost.

It's a bit of a 'perfect storm' that has seen the price of oil triple in not much more than a year. It may fall back again at some point in the future, but I very much doubt we'll see $50/barrel oil ever again.



Lindsey Williams swears it is the World Bank and IMF - and that it will go up to $10/gal.

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#175268 - 07/02/08 04:22 AM Re: Something to Think About [Re: carolaa]
Amelia Administrator Offline
Here Forever, by Request :)

Registered: 07/30/01
Posts: 18472
Loc: Out standing in a field
You can bet alot of people will be out of work if it goes higher than $5 gal. Too many of us don't make enough money to compensate and riding a bike or taking the bus just doesn't work for many jobs either.
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