And I might add "self-righteous" doctrines....This idea that one goes to heaven after he dies is rooted in iniquity. Now I am not saying because some believer doesn't see it my way that he stands condemned. Jesus takes folks where they are at. He accepts them in their ignorance. Good thing for me because while I do understand the issue on the state of the dead I am surely ignorant in other areas of my life.

But the subject is do we receive paradise the moment we die? No...nothing in us is good therefore nothing in us is immortal. I have a Baptist friend at work. One day I was telling him of our condition by birth. He stopped me before I finished my sentence. He wouldn't discuss it. He said I was wrong - that there is some good in us. Well, he was ignorant here. If he's truely ingorant I don't know....That's between him and God.

In the judgment God will not examine how good we are...or examine if our good works is more than our bad works. No, He's going to look at the source of our works. Do they come from pride? Does it come from wanting credit? Do you want Christ to accept you into heaven based on your works? If so your works are works of iniquity.

Rob

Good Stuff Rob.

Does your Baptist friend at work ... allow you to do much talking? Why is he so resistant to hearing Biblical principles in opposition to his current belief? Perhaps this is an opening. Perhaps he is so unsure of his beliefs that he doesn't want to hear others.

Keep us informed as to how your conversations with this person go.

A question that the lesson asked this week was ...

"How central is the cross to your own theology? Perhaps this would be a good question for your Baptist friend.

Actually, I think this is such a good question that I am going to start a thread with it.

I try to talk of only things we have in common....Otherwise it goes no where.

It was years ago we had that conversation about what happens when you die. He took the stance that there was good in him. When I pressed him on it he said the Holy Spirit is good. I agreed, but I said "you aren't the Holy Spirit" and therefore in and of yourself there's nothing good. He said "no - I have become one with the Holy Spirit." I asked, "So you are claiming to be the Holy Spirit?" His face got red and so I knew he was mad....I said to him, "That's blasphemy....The Holy Spirit is not you and you are not the Holy Spirit. Yes, the two of you share the same body, but you are not one and the same. The HS is immortal; you are mortal."

Anyway, he walked out....He didn't want to discuss it.....Rob

Perhaps this is why your conversations are not going far. When someone is "mad" ... I wouldn't tell them they are speaking "blasphemy". The conversation would naturally stop. Could you break it to him more gently?

Actually, the mad part came before my comment....

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." Philippians 2:13 KJV

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me" Galatians 2:20 KJV

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation...." 2 Corinthians 5:17 NKJV

Not all of the works done in man are his own.

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." Matthew 12:31 KJV
Regards!