#176061 - 07/08/08 08:36 PM
Re: WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
[Re: rodgertutt]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10414
Loc: CA
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For the first 500 years after Christ, universalism was the prevailing doctrine believed and taught by the Christian church. http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.shtml Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years The author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present some of the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church. The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.” And they were using the Bible in its original language. This online book also explains why and how this changed.... Besides the fact that the Bible plainly does not teach universal salvation but the eternal death of the wicked (as in Mal. 4; Isaiah 1: 28; 2 Thess. 2 and 3; Rev. 19 & 20; Luke 16: 19ff), there is also the fact that universal salvation was not taught by such early Christian leaders or writings as Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna, The Epistle of Barnabas, The Didache. The last paragraph of the Didache gives basically the same view on end-time events as Seventh-day Adventists have believed.
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Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#176064 - 07/08/08 08:53 PM
Re: WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 645
Loc: B,C.
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(sigh)
May I remind you again of the majority of the human race who, through the ages, have never heard of your theology. Yes universal salvation covers them also and their fate depends on the choices they make and the things they do. It is not at all as complicated as Paul teaches. mel
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#176065 - 07/08/08 09:01 PM
Re: WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
[Re: melvin mccarty]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10414
Loc: CA
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You are saying, then, that we cannot depend on what Saint Paul taught about salvation.
Universal salvation means that all will be saved, and if all will ultimately be saved--including those who reject God and do the worst evil without repenting-- it can only mean that salvation does not depend at all on what people do or wish.
The Bible plainly contradicts this.
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Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#176067 - 07/08/08 09:08 PM
Re: WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
[Re: melvin mccarty]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10414
Loc: CA
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(sigh)
May I remind you again of the majority of the human race who, through the ages, have never heard of your theology.... And? Isn't that what the gospel commission is all about? As I understand it, it is important to preach the gospel to people who do not know it because if they do not hear it or respond in a positive way to Christ, they will be lost. Christ is the only way to salvation. There is no other way. Isn't that what the Bible teaches?
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Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#176068 - 07/08/08 09:12 PM
Re: WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
[Re: melvin mccarty]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10414
Loc: CA
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Do you believe that God would have been right if He had chosen to leave mankind to the consequences of sin without any plan to save us through the death of Christ?
Or do you believe that God was obligated, or had, to save anyone?
Will any people be lost? Will the devil himself finally be saved?
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Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#176082 - 07/09/08 12:30 AM
Re: WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
[Re: cricket]
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Swiss n Swedish American
Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 9049
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
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Good Post. Yes, Christ died for ALL. You have to choose to not be saved. Do you accept the cross or not?
_________________________
Another one of Woodies Goodies
Love WON Another.
Redwood the tree
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#176093 - 07/09/08 02:05 AM
Re: WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
[Re: cricket]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10414
Loc: CA
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The point I am making through all this is that the Bible teaches that one must repent and believe the gospel, put their faith in Christ, and be born again, in order to see the kingdom of God.
It is not true that all people will finally repent and be saved. Many will be lost because they did not believe in Christ and accept the gospel.
The Bible does not teach universal salvation. We need to be clear about that.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#176094 - 07/09/08 02:13 AM
Re: WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
[Re: Redwood]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10414
Loc: CA
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Good Post. Yes, Christ died for ALL. You have to choose to not be saved. Do you accept the cross or not? One must choose to be saved. It is not enough merely never to have said, "I don't want to be saved." In the judgment, the question will not be, "Did you ever reject Christ?" The question will be,"Did you accept Christ as your Savior and Lord?" Nowhere does the Bible or Ellen White teach that the way to be saved is simply never to reject Christ. That is a false, dangerous doctrine. That would mean we could live however we please and be assured of salvation just so long as we don't say that we do not want salvation. Nothing could be further from the truth. There will be people lost who claimed they wanted to be saved, but they did not put their claims into practice. There is such a thing as false faith-- it is called presumption. It is claiming salvation without fulfilling the conditions. There are conditions to salvation. A condition is the placing of one's full confidence in Christ and accepting Him as one's personal Savior and Lord. That is a basic tenet of the Christian faith.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#176095 - 07/09/08 02:18 AM
Re: WHY I BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
[Re: John317]
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Swiss n Swedish American
Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 9049
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
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There are conditions to salvation. A condition is the placing of one's full confidence in Christ and accepting Him as one's personal Savior and Lord.
There will be people lost who claimed they wanted to be saved, but they did not put their claims into practice. There is such a thing as false faith-- it is called presumption. It is claiming salvation without fulfilling the conditions.
Maybe you could explain further what you mean by these words such as FULL confidence etc. What does that mean to you personally? What are the conditions that you see? What claims must be put into practice?
Edited by Redwood (07/09/08 02:25 AM)
_________________________
Another one of Woodies Goodies
Love WON Another.
Redwood the tree
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