Care for the body is not sin. By that I mean you must eat...you must drink...and when it is cold and hot you must dress for it. But then we wouldn't be cold and hot in a perfect world, right? After all Paul says, "If we have food and clothing with this be content." Then why are Christians (including myself) not content with just these basic things?



That's kind of open-ended. Improve oneself for what motive? As I said, Jesus improved Himself by learning to read and write. He went to school. What was His motive? Answer: "To be servant of all!" Everything He did He did for others...he lived to serve! IF He had any self-love controlling Him on the cross He would have come down from the cross and saved Himself instead of dying the 2nd death (the eternal death).




Technically, yes...i.e., according to the spirit of the law.

Note EGW's view of heaven (where we will be sinless): "In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure but all, from pure, genuine love, will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132] Note...we won't even think of ourselves....We will be consumed...motived by agape, i.e., to live for others.


The reason I stress all this is so that those of you who desire to place us "under law" will understand why we had to be delivered from under the law!

Now, what motivated you to buy a house...a car? Did Christ buy a home? How about a horse? No! Why not! He denied His assumed self-nature...He lived a self-less life. When you live righteously, in this world under Lucifer, you too will be without. Why? Because this world system is build on the principle of self-love.




EGW:

All sin is selfishness. Satan's firsts in was a manifestation of selfishness.

Selfishness girds many about as with iron bands. It is "my farm," "my goods," "my trade," "my merchandise."

"Christ pleased not Himself." He did nothing for Himself; His work was in behalf of fallen man. Selfishness stood abashed in His presence.

Under the baleful influence of selfishness, men have lost the sense of what it means to love one another
with a Christlike love.

The danger is not in God's refusing to forgive willful sin. The real danger lies in the fact that continual practice of willful sin leads to a hardened heart and spirit and a perverted conscience, so that eventually, if it is not repented of and turned away, we get to the point where we think we are in the right and we cease to care if God forgives us. Then even God cannot help us. Continual practice of known, willful sin is spiritually dangerous.



All these expect to be saved by Christ's death, while they refuse to live His self-sacrificing life. They extol the riches of free grace, and attempt to cover themselves with an appearance of righteousness, hoping to screen their defects of character; but their efforts will be of no avail in the day of God.

The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin. A man may be a law-breaker in heart; yet if he commits no outward act of transgression, he may be regarded by the world as possessing great integrity. But God's law looks into the secrets of the heart. Every act is judged by the motives that prompt it. Only that which is in accord with the principles of God's law will stand in the judgment.

God is love. He has shown that love in the gift of Christ. When "He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life," He withheld nothing from His purchased possession. (John 3:16.) He gave all heaven, from which we may draw strength and efficiency, that we be not repulsed or overcome by our great adversary. But the love of God does not lead Him to excuse sin. He did not excuse it in Satan; He did not excuse it in Adam or in Cain; nor will He excuse it in any other of the children of men. He will not connive at our sins or overlook our defects of character. He expects us to overcome in His name. COL-- The Wedding Garment

I had to be delivered from under law!

Why?

Because I ain't measuring up!

Gal 5:19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one. 21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

We're in agreement on the above.

I have a question about the part where you say "we won't even think of ourselves."

Do you mean we will not even be aware of a "self," or an individual, apart from the "we"?

I have a hard time seeing it quite that way, if it's what you mean, because it seems obvious to me that we will be self-aware. We will be fully aware of ourselves as individuals with separate centers of consciousness. For instance, we will still have individual talents and thoughts and feelings. Not everyone is going to be exactly alike. Some may like one thing and others another. Some may enjoy doing one thing more and others something else.

For instance, I can imagine some liking a house that looks one way and other liking a house that looks different. If Einstein is in heaven, wouldn't he be apt to ask God questions about the laws of the universe, more than I might? I might be more apt to ask Jesus about what it was like for the Eternal God to live inside of human skin and be limited in his knowledge, etc.

So I see us all as being slightly different. Yet the point is that we will love each other despite any differences. We won't feel angry with one another over a difference of viewpoint or opinion. In other words, we will not put less value on the other person because he not "just like me." As Paul says, we will put others first. We will be like Abraham, who said to Lot, "Go ahead-- you choose first."

Do you agree?

Did I state this? No! Falling short isn't about willful sin. You might be a very mature Christian, but compared to Christ's life of self-denial, you fall short. That's all that I am saying... [/quote]

If that is all you are saying about falling short, then I AGREE with you 1 trillion per cent. I have repeatedly said that there will NEVER be a time in eternity when I can say that I have finally come to the point where I can say that I now love others in the fullest measure AS/IN THE SAME EXACT manner that God loves. BUT......when the believer truly loves God,

[color:red]"When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus accepts this disposition and effort as man's best service, and He makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit." 1 SM 382

Since I have been released from the law by virtue of my being crucified with Christ and Him being my new Master, no matter how short I may come of His glory because I am still imprisoned in a flesh & blood body, my shortfall is always made full by the righteousness of Christ. Therefore, God sees me as always in perfect obedience.



Gerry

But why do you want to be delivered from the condemnation of the law for not measuring up?

Gerry

What if I were to respond, "So what if you ain't measuring up?" (Now I really wouldn't respond that way, but I am using the voice of some people I occasionally hear.)

Don't worry about it. Jesus took care of it 2,000 years ago before you were even born. It's a done deal-- what you do doesn't have anything to do with your salvation, right?

You still aren't measuring up and neither are any of us.

Guess I might as well go out and have a good time and stop worrying about not measuring up, which it is impossible for me to do anyway.

Also seems to me that being concerned about being saved in heaven and saved from destruction is kind of selfish, isn't it?

Now your indulging the flesh....



Initially...yes, ...

Cause I don't like the idea of spending eternity in the grave, although I wouldn't know anything about it. That's the initial reason.....

Rob