#179513 - 08/06/08 06:31 PM
Re: Is there more than one definition of sin?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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But why do you want to be delivered from the condemnation of the law for not measuring up?
Gerry Cause I don't like the idea of spending eternity in the grave, although I wouldn't know anything about it. That's the initial reason..... Rob
Rob, why don't you just admit that you want to be saved, delivered from the law, and not spend eternity in the grave because you love yourself enough to want to spend eternity with God? There is nothing wrong with loving oneslf enough to want to be saved.
Paul has described for us what agape love is like in 1 Cor 13. That's the kind of love for self that believers are to love others with. There's no sin in that. Gerry
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#179516 - 08/06/08 06:53 PM
Re: Is there more than one definition of sin?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 7671
Loc: CA
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Guess I might as well go out and have a good time and stop worrying about not measuring up, which it is impossible for me to do anyway. Now your indulging the flesh.... I am responding in the words that I have heard other people say when presented with ideas such as have been conveyed here. The above quote is not expressing my own personal feelings. I don't think that way at all because I don't believe that it's impossible to obey God's commandments with the Holy Spirit. How do you respond to a Christian who is "indulging his flesh"?
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Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#179518 - 08/06/08 07:00 PM
Re: Is there more than one definition of sin?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 7671
Loc: CA
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JOHN3:17-- Also seems to me that being concerned about being saved in heaven and saved from destruction [2nd death] is kind of selfish, isn't it?
Initially...yes, ... On that view, it would mean that when we respond to the preaching of the gospel and the Holy Spirit's conviction by fleeing to Christ for salvation, we would be sinning-- that is, if your argument is true that it's selfish to be concerned about being saved. The problem I have with this is that I see nothing in either the Bible or the Spirit of prophecy to support it, even by implication.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#179528 - 08/06/08 09:02 PM
Re: Is there more than one definition of sin?
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Kansas
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I think you missed the point with all your vain babblings!
The soul thus touched will hate its selfishness, abhor its self-love,
The prophet Daniel still had self-love in his life....So do you!
Rob She's not saying Daniel had self-love. You only want to see that like the homosexual wants to see David and Jonathan as gay lovers. 1 Sam. 20:41 ...and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.
2 Sam. 1:26 I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women. When people come to Christ, they have to give up self-love. Those who have self-love are not even converted: And all who would bring forth fruit as workers together with Christ must first fall into the ground and die. The life must be cast into the furrow of the world's need. Self-love, self-interest, must perish. {COL 86.3}
Those who are filled with self-esteem and self-love do not feel the need of a living, personal union with Christ. {COL 162.1}
Their self-love, their love of popularity and love of praise, exclude the Saviour from their hearts {COL 162.1}
Shall not the workers in the Sabbath school divest themselves of all pride and self-love, and heartily and sincerely become doers of the word? {CSW 106.2}
Selfishness destroys Christlikeness, filling man with self-love. It leads to continual departure from righteousness. Christ says, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." But self-love is blind to the perfection which God requires. . . {CS 24.3} Those are only the first few out of 250 quotes with the term "self-love". The message in that chapter you keep quoting is that if Daniel had walked with God all his life and still abhorred himself before the Lord, and the same with all the prophets, then how much more should a common sinner who is just coming to Christ from the world?
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#179597 - 08/07/08 12:27 PM
Re: Is there more than one definition of sin?
[Re: Gerry Cabalo]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 14480
Loc: Columbia, SC
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But why do you want to be delivered from the condemnation of the law for not measuring up?
Gerry Cause I don't like the idea of spending eternity in the grave, although I wouldn't know anything about it. That's the initial reason..... Rob
Rob, why don't you just admit that you want to be saved, delivered from the law, and not spend eternity in the grave because you love yourself enough to want to spend eternity with God? There is nothing wrong with loving oneslf enough to want to be saved.
Paul has described for us what agape love is like in 1 Cor 13. That's the kind of love for self that believers are to love others with. There's no sin in that. Gerry But this "self" won't be taken to heaven. I will be changed...The old goes.... Christ, on the other hand, was willing to be lost...He was willing to take our curse (the 2nd death). When He died hope didn't present Him with coming forth from the grave. That's selflessness.
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"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#179598 - 08/07/08 12:30 PM
Re: Is there more than one definition of sin?
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 14480
Loc: Columbia, SC
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JOHN3:17-- Also seems to me that being concerned about being saved in heaven and saved from destruction [2nd death] is kind of selfish, isn't it?
Initially...yes, ... On that view, it would mean that when we respond to the preaching of the gospel and the Holy Spirit's conviction by fleeing to Christ for salvation, we would be sinning-- that is, if your argument is true that it's selfish to be concerned about being saved. The problem I have with this is that I see nothing in either the Bible or the Spirit of prophecy to support it, even by implication. Folks usually respond out of fear and/or hope of a reward. That's self-centered. The only unselfish reason is a response to Christ's agape seen in His life, especially the cross.
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"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#179599 - 08/07/08 12:34 PM
Re: Is there more than one definition of sin?
[Re: rush4hire]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 14480
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Self-love, self-interest, must perish. {COL 86.3} So there's no self-love and self-interest in your life? Rob
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#179600 - 08/07/08 12:40 PM
Re: Is there more than one definition of sin?
[Re: rush4hire]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 14480
Loc: Columbia, SC
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She's not saying Daniel had self-love. It was the same presence of divine holiness that had caused the prophet Daniel to fall as one dead before the angel of God. He said, "My comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength." So when Isaiah beheld the glory (i.e., His Holiness, goodness) of the Lord, he exclaimed, "Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts." Dan. 10:8; Isa. 6:5. Humanity, with its weakness and sin, was brought in contrast with the perfection of divinity, and he felt altogether deficient and unholy.
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#179601 - 08/07/08 02:21 PM
Re: Is there more than one definition of sin?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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[quote=Gerry Cabalo] But why do you want to be delivered from the condemnation of the law for not measuring up?
Gerry Cause I don't like the idea of spending eternity in the grave, although I wouldn't know anything about it. That's the initial reason..... Rob
Rob, why don't you just admit that you want to be saved, delivered from the law, and not spend eternity in the grave because you love yourself enough to want to spend eternity with God? There is nothing wrong with loving oneslf enough to want to be saved.
Paul has described for us what agape love is like in 1 Cor 13. That's the kind of love for self that believers are to love others with. There's no sin in that. Gerry But this "self" won't be taken to heaven. I will be changed...The old goes.... Christ, on the other hand, was willing to be lost...He was willing to take our curse (the 2nd death). When He died hope didn't present Him with coming forth from the grave. That's selflessness. [/quote] So.......are you saying that wanting to be saved is selfish and that desire belongs to the old order and therefore sinful? That after you get to heaven with a changed body, you won't love yourself anymore so as to want to spend eternity with God?Gerry
Edited by Gerry Cabalo (08/07/08 02:23 PM)
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#179603 - 08/07/08 03:01 PM
Re: Is there more than one definition of sin?
[Re: Gerry Cabalo]
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Getting the hang of posting
Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 43
Loc: Michigan
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If we truely love God we will love His creation too, and we are a part of His Creation. There may be parts of us (in our actions) that we would wish better and not love, but as God renews us helping us to overcome one thing after another, preparing us for His Coming, we must love what God is doing in us, and there by love ourselves too. Opps, I forgot, there are some that don't believe we can overcome, even with God's help. I would hate mayself too if that was all I had to hang onto. :(
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