Yeah, it's that spending some time together and being prepared to answer those hard questions....that is what 'hooks' a person on God...

Hmmmmmm....maybe I need to save up for a boat....

Would you believe that homosexuality is wrong?

Wrong, of course, can mean more than one thing. It can mean "a sin," or "not according to God's original plan," among other things. The second case is the result of sin, but not necessarily sinful in itself.

When challenged concerning divorce, Jesus enunciated this principle.

4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'[b]? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"

8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
Matt. 19:4-8. see also Mark 10. Luke 16.

"At the beginning. . . the Creator made" i.e., "This was God's original plan." This is Jesus' consistent teaching in the Gospels.


A child born with Down's syndrome is "not according to God's original plan," but that child is not sinful because born with an extra chromosome. In the sense that it was not God's design that a child should be born other than perfect, it is 'wrong' for a child to be born with Down's syndrome.

God's original design did not include homosexual desire. "Male and female" were designed to become one flesh, not 'male and male' or 'female and female.' Indeed, I think Biblically it is impossible for two persons of the same sex to become one flesh.

Since God's original plan did not include homosexual desire, it is, at least in that sense, wrong. IF it is true that homosexuality is solely inborn, not in any sense chosen -- God knows, I do not--then it is wrong in the same way that Down's syndrome is wrong.

And by extension, though this question was not asked, homosexual marriage is wrong, since it is not in accordance with the original plan that Jesus enunciated for marriage.

If homosexuality is in any sense chosen, then it is wrong in the additional sense of being an explicit sin, rather than the unfortunate result of sin.

Good Post Ich.

What do we do with this?

I would propose that since we do not really know the answers to your questions ... perhaps it would be safest not to judge a fellow Christian or non-Christian on this matter. Could we just let it be between them and God. We don't have to know and teach every detail of Christian life. We could depend upon the Holy Spirit to fill in the gaps.

Depending on what you mean by 'judge' I agree.

Something which seems extremely difficult for people to understand, is the necessity to separate the person from the behavior. We are not to condemn Gr. krino (often translated 'judge') individuals: "Neither do I condemn you. . ."

At the same time, we must evaluate behaviors. "Go and sin no more. . ."

Jesus did not condemn the person, but he did declare the behavior to be sin.

Does not the term "judge" carry two different meanings in the Good Book?

To condemn (as Ich rightly noted).
To discern.


oG

We don't judge the sinner ... we judge the sin.

Good and thoughtful posts, all of you.

In the process of convicting a person of his/her sin, we assume the job of the Holy Spirit. I just want to clarify the above process....Are we to lift up a standard ? When does this process of convincing a person that he is doing wrong [ie 'sinning'] and assuming one of the jobs of the GodHead?