How can they be saved apart from personal faith in Christ?

Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. [NASB]

Note: "There resulted justification of life to all men"

Eph 2:4...God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love [agape] with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus....

Note: "By grace (not faith) you have been saved"

Yes, for those who have been enlightened they must accept Christ by faith. See verse 8.

We've already discussed that verse many times. The verse reads, literally, "Consequently, then as through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also through one just [act] for all mankind for life's justifying."

The words supplied by the translator are in red: "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men."

The verbs "there resulted" are supplied by the translator. If you go by verse 19, "many will be made righteous," you would supply the words, "there comes" or "there results."

The translation given by the NKJV at Romans 5: 18 is also quite possible: "so through one Man's righteous act, the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."

In any case, it is not necessary to translate Romans 5: 18 in such a way as to mean that all the world has been already justified and forgiven. The sacrifice of Christ has already been made so that we can be forgiven and saved, but that depends on our acceptance of the free gift. This is, in fact, how the gospel is always presented in the NT. First comes the proclamation of the gospel; next comes repentance and faith in Christ; then comes justification and salvation. You never hear the gospel presented as if everyone is already justified and forgiven and we just need to know this fact. Justification and salvation always comes to us BY grace THROUGH faith. The Bible does not teach that we were justified and saved before we were born.

Look carefully at all of the NT passages describing how the gospel was proclaimed and you will always hear it proclaimed the same way, as I've described above. See, for instance, Acts 13: 38, 39: "By Him everyone who believes is justified..." Again, "Believe on the Lord and you will be saved..." IT DOES NOT SAY YOU HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED or YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED before you believed!

The fact that Ellen White had a vision of babies in heaven cannot be made the basis of our theology of salvation, which is what it seems to me you are attempting to do. The Bible is very clear that salvation comes to us, or is received, through placing ones faith in Jesus Christ and not by being a good person. If that were the case, there would be no need for the gospel, since we could all be saved simply by being a good person. But the Bible teaches plainly that this is impossible. In order to be saved apart from faith, one would have to obey the law perfectly, and we all know that is an utter impossibility.

All that leaves us with is the necessity of hearing the gospel and putting faith in Christ in order to be saved in God's Kingdom. Will God save some apart from the hearing of the gospel? He may, in fact I believe he will -- but that is His affair. It does not affect the Bible's teaching that one must both hear and accept the gospel and be born of the Spirit. He gave us the Bible as it reads for a good reason. It would be wrong to base such an important view of missions and of salvation on this vision given to Ellen White. We may be sure that Ellen White would not have been supportive of such a misuse of her vision.

Welcome to the forum, and forgive me for not reading all of the posts before adding my 2 cents.


I think before you arrive at the threshold of the universal salvation, you'd have to presumptuously throw away much of the Bible. I think that the argument is based more on emotions rather than Biblical view. It goes something like this:

1) I can't believe that God is merciful and just and will burn some people up based on the sins of their parents... therefore he will save all.

2) Based on one... there are some verses in the Bible that say "all" in them, then it must mean that all are saved no matter what.


I understand the emotional bases for the argument, as I do have great parents who reject even the possibility for God's existence, and I do hope and pray that some day He will reveal Himself to them. Yet, for me to accept the Universal Salvation I'd have to Ignore the following:


1) The entire subject of hell, and chalk it up as a scare tactics of God... thus he is really lying about the whole destruction thing and the wicked being the ashes under the feet of the just.

2) The entire subject of salvation by faith... and chalk it up as salvation by faith means the faith OF Jesus and not the faith IN Jesus.

3) Only parts of the Bible are true then, and the others are symbolic... the ones that do not deal with "universal salvation".... aka... Only those who exited the Sodom and Gomorrah were saved....only part of the Jews Entered the promise land... and etc.


Yet, I think we can still take something away from the Universal Salvation view... and it is the fact that we don't get what we deserve, and that salvation is the Thing of God and not men.

I agree with you. But of course I never have believed in universal salvation. I completely reject it because I find no support for it in the Bible.

The original post that started this thread appears to have been a "Hit-N-Run," as it is the only post the user made to any forum here. Maybe s/he was banned from the forums rather quickly. I don't know. Yet, the thread continues, why?

Yes, I noticed the same about the original poster.

The thread continues as long as there are members who feel that they want to contribute something to the topic or if anyone else has a question about it. It's certainly a subject that lots of people wonder about-- not only on the precise question but on some which are closely related.

I'm an Adventist interested in Universal Salvation, are there actually any Adventists who accept this? I would like to hear from them.

In researching this I came across these statements:

"As ministers, they focused much more strongly on the health reform oriented doctrines of EGW and her emerging ideas of universal salvation (contradicting her earlier "Shut Door" testimonies) than on the fundamentalist- apocalyptic theology of the General Conference (as the formal ministry of the church was organized)."

"The vast majority of EGW's testimonies were about what Adventists should eat, wear, and do in propagation of the faith. Issues directly affecting the church business operations were often addressed. Many of the testimonies were spiritual in nature, but they ran the gamut from hell-fire damnation to universal forgiveness, apparently paralleling EGW's own spiritual development from her fanatically fundamentalist-apocalyptic roots to become the spiritual leader of a major new religious movement."

http://ubfellowship.org/archive/history/doc171.htm

I am not aware of any EGW statements about Universal Salvation - does anyone know what the person is talking about?

Adventists don't believe in universal salvation because we have been "people of the Book" and the "Book" doesn't teach that.

There are a few (more than a few) who have accepted parts of Calvinism into their teaching in order to see themselves as unconditionally saved. But the Bible does not teach unconditional salvation either.

The Bible teaches us that the security of our salvation rests in the ongoing relationship we have with Jesus the Christ. "He who comes to Me (and KEEPS coming to Me) is going to have rest."

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."


og

This guy is small fry. If you want to see the ultimate hit-n-run poster ... try CGMedley . He has some 600 posts over 8 years and to my knowledge ... he has never responded to any posts. I would nominate him for the award of all time Hit-n-Run poster. I've tried and given up on getting any response from him.

So, as you can see ... this is accepted here.

At the following link, you can research everything she wrote. I would say that generally speaking it is best to read what she wrote rather than studying what others wrote about her. It's a good place to do your research because here you can do your own independent work and find out exactly what she wrote and taught.

http://www.whiteestate.org/

In regard to Universal salvation, Ellen White said,

To show how believers in universal salvation wrest the Scriptures to sustain their soul-destroying dogmas, it is needful only to cite their own utterances. At the funeral of an irreligious young man, who had been killed instantly by an accident, a Universalist minister selected as his text the Scripture statement concerning David, "He was comforted concerning Amnon, seeing he was dead." [2 Samuel 13:39.] The Great Controversy (1888), page 537, paragraph 2; Chapter Title: Chapter XXXIII - The First Great Deception


There was no arbitrary choice on the part of God by which Esau was shut out from the blessings of salvation. The gifts of His grace through Christ are free to all. There is no election but one's own by which any may perish. . . . Every soul is elected who will work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. He is elected who will put on the armor and fight the good fight of faith. He is elected who will watch unto prayer, who will search the Scriptures, and flee from temptation. He is elected who will have faith continually, and who will be obedient to every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. The provisions of redemption are free to all; the results of redemption will be enjoyed by those who have complied with the conditions. Conflict and Courage (1970), page 71, paragraph 4