Conference aims to empower men to bring positive change to communities



I am the Men's Ministry director in my local church and it is one tough field. Most men isolate themselves. They don't have close, intimate relationships with other men. When asked who their best friend is, many men will name an old high school or college friend they haven't seen in years.

Then there is the big male ego. Pride tells them they don't need any help. Why would they need to go to men's ministry. They don't need help becoming a better father, husband or leader. Simply attending a Men's Ministry function would be too humbling for many men.

Our church has about 200 adult men in our membership and about six to ten attend our Men's Ministry functions.

I guess women are more into relationships, but personally, I don't get Women's Ministries, either. I don't feel a need for it. Maybe I'm too independent minded. I've never been to a women's retreat or had a desire to go to one. I love church campouts, but a one-gender retreat or activity holds no interest for me.

I went to a single moms retreat years ago (someone paid for it) and wasn't very impressed. If they had had more activities to do with our kids, it would have been more fun for me, but they had meetings for the women and babysitting for the kids for a good part of the days. I was already resenting the fact that, as a working mom, I didn't see my kid enough, so that was a big turnoff. And the meetings were on discipline, money, and time management - which I could have taught those. The only class I enjoyed was the one on how to choose a mate. This was before Oprah's new age transformation, but it was basically the same thing - make a list and give it to the universe - I mean, God. Yes, it was SDA, and yes, the method does work because it's based on sound psychological principles of knowing exactly what you're looking for. (Most people don't find what they're not looking for.)

Anyway, I know how much work and money goes into those things, and I feel bad that I'm not more interested. I can't see that there's anything men's or women's ministries do that can't be accomplished, maybe better, by another ministry that's not as exclusive.

My final thought is that if you really feel Men's Ministries is important, then make it into a true ministry by taking it to the community. Take the few men who do attend and go do something in and for the community, at a neutral location (not your church). For example, join sports or other organizations for the *purpose* of inviting friends/neighbors/colleagues to participate. I feel certain other men in the church would be attracted to that kind of Men's Ministries. Your byproduct will be that men who do things together will bond. Voila!

These ministries seem to me to perpetuate the idea that changes will come about by 'separation' from something, that is, minister to each in their own comfort zone. How about Family Ministry, they are a family aren't they? If each can only 'learn' when by themselves, what happens when they are back 'together'?

This is how I went about finding a mate. I asked my wife to marry me six days after I met her (we were engaged over a year). She was working at one of our schools. I talked to her pastor, friends, employer to make sure the qualities I saw in her was real and then I took the plunge. We have been married over 11 years now. The other method is that we get emotionally attached, overlook the defects we don't like and then see how long we can stave off divorce.

In Men's Ministry we try to do the sporting events and such things as family or church activities outside of our ministry. Our men's ministry events are monthly breakfasts. We get together, have breakfast and discuss a topic. Normally we have a speaker or a DVD to stimulate the discussion. Then we may plan a multi-family event like going to the beach, zoo, sporting event, etc.

Forgive me if I'm wrong or less than tactful, but it doesn't sound much different from the typical Sabbath School - something to endure. I can't see many men being attracted to a "discussion." They might endure it for the sake of the event that follows.

What are you doing that makes it a ministry? What is its purpose for existing?

Well, many of us enjoy Sabbath School. Many of us don't see Sabbath School as something to endure. That aside, our discussions are much like men sitting around in a dinner or cafe eating donuts, drinking coffee and talking about local politics, business and sports. It is what we call male bonding. There are no events that follow. The breakfast is the event. There are events on other days that are family orientated but they are not on the same day.

Just from my perspective this could be the problem you have such a low turnout. Most men are very busy with their jobs and see little of their families, so they are probably choosing to be with their families instead of doing the male bonding--which they need in my opinion.

So why not try and work the schedule so that at the same time as say Pathfinders, you also schedule the men's and women's ministries, then at the end of *the meeting hour* all come's together for a very short intercessory prayer session, and then part ways.

Then during your meeting you can have the donuts and coffee and discuss anything, all the while knowing that you are not "taking away" from family time because your wife and kids are busy in their own meetings.

If you want to do some outreach project then pair up with the Pathfinder club, sort of like the idea of *take your child to work* only it would be *take your child to feed the homeless* or whatever your outreach project is.

Anyways, this is my two cents.

Well, we've had three Men's Ministries Retreats in our conference and they have been wonderfully received by the men. For the 1st one we had Randy Skeete as the speaker and he really inspired the men to study the Bible. One of reasons he was so inspiring was that he can quote chapters and chapters of the Bible from memory and that was really inspiring. I'm sure there was more than just that from his presentations. Other presenters have been very good also. We've had Lee Venden and Willie Oliver.

Men's Ministries was started under our Family Life Department because we've had Women's Ministries for many years, why not men? There were some men in my office one day who expressed an interest and I picked up on that so asked one of our pastors to lead it as a coordinator.

This year October 31-November 2, our speaker is going to be Randy Skeete again. The men have asked for him to return. I suspect we will have a very good turnout.

For the past three years we've also had a Men's Ministries workshop at our camp meeting. These have been well attended.

It may seem strange but, I prefer the Men's Ministries Retreats to the Women's. (My job at a Men's Retreat is to do all the behind scenes work. I do not attend the meetings but, provide the hot drinks, decorations, extra activities, etc. and my secretary does the registration.) I prefer the men's because men are more accepting of other men. Women save seats for the friends and tend to be in cliques. I for one enjoy being included in activities, etc. That is why I do not go to Women's Ministry events.

We choose Sunday morning after doing a poll in the church. The vast majority of men preferred Sunday morning - but few of them show up. We do it only once a month so it doesn't pull much time away from their families. But we need priorities straight and isolating ourselves from having intimate relationships with other men is not for the benefit of our families.

Sorry, Shane, I didn't catch that this was only once a month. I thought it was a weekly thing. I agree with you that men need to bond with other men. Perhaps take another poll and find out what they would like to do? I don't know, sometimes you just can't beat apathy.

You make a point that I have felt for several years. Good job,


og

We are agreeing to something?

Seriously though, we all seemed to be concerned about our own needs, vs the whole. Families are extremely busy in this world today, with little time for the whole, so I would be much more supportive of 'real' Family Ministry.
I have a feeling spouses would like to the men more involved in their family life, but going to a mens group or doing men things together seems a little backward to me.

One of the problems with that is that, even in the church, not all men and not all women are in families, at least not traditional nuclear families. Singles Ministries tend sometimes to be seen as a dating club, which is not fair and which can be seen as a turnoff in itself, but if we remove ministries to Men and Women and replace them with Families then the Singles are short on options. (this is by no means to say that there's not a place for Family Ministries and parenting support/education - just that it doesn't neatly replace ministries to men and women)

I think part of the problem I see with Men's Ministries, and many of our other programs, is that they tend to be about serving the participants. As Shane said, men tend to like to think they don't need to be served, whether it's true or not, but they do have a calling to serve others. So a Men's Ministry program that involves the men in ministering to others, in whatever ways, including working together to help people in the community, is probably going to be more attractive than something that just tries to focus on the needs of the men themselves. Guys might be uncomfortable with 'bonding' for its own sake, but will naturally bond as they work alongside one another. (The same may be true for Women's Ministries or the needs may be different - I feel less qualified to comment!)

I know for me I do really value our Home Group because it has a bunch of men in it who I really like and am comfortable with. We do a variety of things together as a home group, and I'd like to spend more time with them, just playing golf or chatting, or working on some project together.

It could be a good year

Bravus, I don't see them as needing to be replaced, men and women ministries, but that we need family ones also. I get the impression that the existing ones feel they are taking care of the 'family'.

That's not a bad idea, but I think if they had ideas, they would have said already. People are not going to be apathetic if the ministry is meeting their needs. Maybe the men are getting their needs met with another ministry, and that's fine. Just because they are apathetic about Men's Ministry doesn't mean they are apathetic about church. You can't expect everyone to be involved with everything. Not these days. And if they are active in another ministry, they are probably already bonding with others. Bottom line is, look for people who are not involved in any ministry - men, women, children - and get them ministering.

Family ministries exists in most conferences. The local church nominating committee just needs to nominate a Family Ministries Director and the ministry comes alive.

The sad fact is that most men are not getting their needs met primarily because they don't know what their needs are. Most men live in isolation. The friendships they have with other men are superficial. Men in good marriages have a intimate communication with their wives in a way that they bare their souls but many men don't even have that. Many men have built walls around themselves.

I contrast this with what I experience in AA. In AA men hug each other after most meetings. We confess our shortcomings and struggles to each other. AA friends call each other when something great happens or when they get terribly frustrated. They trust in each other with full knowledge that they risk emotional pain as a result. To me that is manhood. That is courage. That is being real.

Building walls and hiding in isolation is cowardly but it is what most men know. They are not intentionally choosing to live in isolation. Work, family and routine have placed there. This is even more true Christian men that do not go to the bar or join bowling leagues or the like. Many of these men are dying inside and do not even know what they are missing.

OK, I'll defer to you on most of that since you're a man and I'm not. But isn't that why we try to meet "felt" needs? It's pretty difficult to minister to people who don't feel a need. I think you have 2 options if you want things to change: 1) Meet needs they feel, instead of needs they don't feel, or 2) Create a situation in which they feel their need of what you have to offer.

Yeah, this is one of the challenges I face with teacher education and professional development: do we address only the perceived needs, or try to help people perceive new needs too? I try to do both, though with humility, not saying "you don't know what's good for you and I do!"

I still think a big part of the problem is the language of 'meeting people's needs', which tends to focus us, actually, on their wants. What people *need* is to be turned around to focus on meeting the needs of others: happiness lies in service, not in being indulged. Real leadership will give men a vision of a better world and equip them to help build it. And discussion might be one valuable step toward that, but discussion is not an end in itself.

Well said. "Christ's method alone...", you know, about meeting people's felt needs before inviting them to listen to you. I agree some people think their wants are needs, though. I'm thinking of a church who wanted a particular kind of pastor (babysitter/cheerleader), but that's not what they needed. I don't know...maybe the answer was to give them a babysitter/cheerleader to meet their felt needs and then lead/educate them to a higher level.

What type of needs do men need?

Is there a generic one or two solutions will pretty much fullfill all thier needs? Or is there many little needs that need to be met? Do our programs need to be more flexible in meeting needs ?

Ok, I am open....Hit me! What needs to be done?

Basically men need intimate friendships with other men. It doesn't mean a lot of intimate friendships. Studies show men with one or two intimate friendships with other men live longer and deal with stress better.

Men need to be challenged to put their faith to work in some sort of ministry for others. There are numerous ministries and different men have different talents that fit them to different ministries. Men working in some sort of ministry feel a better sense of purpose in life.