If you are free from sin why do you sin? Christ never sinned, not even by a thought! And not only are you sinning, you are in a state of sin because you are never fully measuring up to Christ's life, which was a fulfillment of the law.

SO, you are wrong again.

It is true that God made the world and Adam and Eve perfect, but that does not prove your point that since the Fall, the Sabbath no longer points to God as our Creator.

Connect the idea of "perfection" to the concept of the Sabbath as a memorial, and prove that the Fall made the Sabbath no longer the memorial of creation of the world.

Remember that Exodus 20-- written thousands of years after the Fall-- specifically refers to the Creation as the reason for keeping the Sabbath.

The fact that God rested because His work was complete is no proof or even evidence that the Fall changed the reason we keep the Sabbath. We keep the Sabbath as a memorial that God made the world, and the fact that Satan got mankind to rebel against God, does not change the fact that God created it.

Do you agree with this Fundamental Belief of the Seventh-day Adventist Church regarding the Sabbath or do you believe that it contradicts the Bible:



Do you believe that the Spirit of prophecy is mistaken on this also? Do the writings of Ellen White on this point contradict the Bible, in your judgement?

Read Romans 6. For instance, look at Romans 6: 22--

"But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life."

Believers in Christ are "freed from sin," according to Paul.

Don't you believe this? What is Paul saying in Romans 6: 22?

When I compare freedom from Egyptian slavery to freedom from slavery to sin, I am repeating the same thing that Paul says here. Believers in Christ are freed from sin in the sense that Paul means it here.

Rob, you have a lot of very wonderful ideas, yet just here there is a real problem, my good friend.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that when we rest on the Sabbath, we are agreeing that the world is perfect NOW. The truth is that we are agreeing God created a perfect world at the time God made it. The seventh day Sabbath is not a denial that Satan got man to fall.

The fact that the world is not perfect NOW is even more reason why we need to remind ourselves every seven days that God created a perfect world and that it will once again be perfect, as in Rev. 21 and 22.

I believe in the Bible as you quoted.

Don't need nothin more than that.

Umm, John317, why are you screaming? Do your proffers require reinforcement with noise?



>>In the NT, do you know of a single instance where a ceremonial Sabbath is unquestionably referred to by the words, Ton Sabbatwn(THE Sabbath)?<<

Ton Sabbatwn(THE Sabbath)? I know we differ upon the translation, but I am confident I am correct to read Sabbatwn in the plural. The plural use, in this instance, would be buttressed by the length of time St Paul spent in Philippi – spending the Sabbaths by a riverside. That said,

I fail to take your point.



>>The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible, which dates before the time of Christ, proves that at Deuteronomy, the original book contained both reasons for keeping the Sabbath.<<

How so?

“Interestingly, now with manuscripts predating the medieval period, we find these texts in substantial agreement with the Masoretic text as well as widely variant forms.” [ed.jasd]

>>Remember that Moses is here reviewing the law. He is making the law relevant to his audience by reminding them that they were once slaves and that they are not to force others to work on the Sabbath like they were forced to work while in Egypt.<< [ed.jasd]

One suspects, by your rationalizing – that the COI could not previously have understood the words, following:

Ex 20:10 ...[in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Further..., should your argument that Deuteronomy represents a recap of Exodus 20:8-11 – it reinforces the argument that the Sabbath was, indeed, given only to those whom Gd brought out of Egypt.

You’re not suggesting that the COI are antitypical of mankind per se, are you?

>>By the way, the first reason given for keeping the Sabbath is the creation; the second reason is that they were freed from Egyptian slavery. Why is that a reason? Because God freed them so that they might keep His law.<<

Should that, indeed, be so – then one assumes that the Law was not extant prior the ‘enslavement’ in Egypt; else, you have Gd enslaving a people that He might free them!?

It could also argue, otherwise, the evolutionary or changing character of the Sabbaths – or even – the complete removal of same.

It could also argue that – whereas, Gd rested on the Seventh day – He then chose, upon the Exodus event, to include the COI in His rest.

It could also argue...

>>That is always the way God works: God saves us in order to keep His law. We do not first keep His law, then become saved.<<

Is that why He placed Satan in Eden – that we might be lost; that Law would be introduced; that we might be saved? umm, that is, a remnant of us will be saved? ...a mini-miniscule portion of those lost?

>>In the Dead Sea Scrolls Bible, the reading is 1000 years older than the text that most modern Bibles are translated from. There are very few differences but one important difference is in Deut. 5.

“The scrolls contain previously unknown stories about biblical figures such as Enoch, Abraham, and Noah. The story of Abraham includes an explanation why God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son Isaac.”

That said, I’m not too keen on the Dead Sea Scrolls per se, as the Xtian world has received them...

“It wasn't until 1991, 44 years after the discovery of the first Scroll, after the pressure for publication mounted, that general access was made available to photographs of the Scrolls.”

“general access”? made available “photographs”? What’s that?

Again, He created Adam perfect. We are fallen....We are not in the likeness of God, but rather Adam after the fall.




And that law was broken....In the 2nd set we see a different reason. So the reason was changed. I think this was by design.



What are you resting from, John? Why do you rest as God rested? What's the reason?

1) "The sabbaths" is an impossible translation, because the word "day" is singular. Thus the only correct translation is, "the Sabbath day". The singular word, day, proves that the word sabbatwn is to be translated "sabbath," singular.

If you want, take this to any professor of Koine Greek and ask. Better yet, look at every single translation of the verse online or in your library. You will not find any translation that gives it, "the sabbath days." You might also check it out in any interlinear, comparing the literal translation.

2) Can you find any translation that gives it the translation you claim? In over 60 translations, not a single one says "the sabbath days," or, as you wrote, "the sabbaths."

Here is Robert Young's Literal:

Acts 16:13-- on the sabbath-day also we went forth outside of the city, by a river, where there used to be prayer, and having sat down, we were speaking to the women who came together,

3) The point is that it is definitely the seventh day Sabbath because the New Testament never calls ceremonial sabbaths "THE Sabbath day."

The reason I sometimes print the letters large or in bold letters is that I am giving those words emphasis and hopefully drawing attention to them. That is also the purpose of making them a different color at times. I don't think of it as "screaming," do you?

Look at the context!

Rom 6:6....our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— [explain:] 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.


What Paul is stating is that your old life from Adam died in the humanity of Christ. Hence as far as the law is concerned, you are dead killed by the law itself. Dead man can't sin, now can they? That's what Paul means by "no longer slaves to sin"....

Rom 8:1-2 says the same:

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [why?] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

"In Christ" our humanity was freed from the sin nature and the wages of sin, death. Again, that's Paul's foundation. Yes, you are to consider yourself dead to sin and alive to God by faith, but in reality you know we come up short. Hence, if we say we are without sin...well, we are terribly deceived.

Come on John, you're light years off in your theology. Do you know why? Tradition & you refuse to accept anything outside the limited knowledge of Ellen White. That's no different than the Lutheran who won't accept anything outside Martin Luther teachings.
ROb