#192235 - 10/11/08 06:49 AM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
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Do you believe the seventh day of the week is blessed and holy now? How long has it been holy? The day isn't holy...You aren't holy...only God is holy. The day pointed to a perfect & holy creation because all of it was made in God's image after His likeness. Days aren't holy....The 7th-day is a sign and what it points to is perfect and complete [holy].  The Bible clearly says that the seventh day of the week is holy time. That means that God set it apart for holy purposes. Yes, the seventh day is holy. It belongs to God. The other days of the week belong to people and they can do on those days what they want. They can use those 6 days for their own ends. (This doesn't mean they are free to sin on them. It just means that 6 days are for us to work for our living and do as we please.) JOHN3:17-- -- why does it matter which day of the week they keep holy?
ROBERT-- It doesn't....And only a holy person could keep something holy. Are you holy? Don't make me quote Ellen!
I am not holy on my own. Apart from Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, I'm evil. There is no one who is more conscious of this than I. But God forgives us when we agree with Him about our condition and His diagnosis. And the Bible says that believers who have accepted Christ completely are indeed holy, no matter what they have done in the past. We are given the righteousness of God's own Son. By faith, then, I am as righteous as Jesus Christ. He has put to my account all of His good deeds and His pure life. So I have been set apart for God's purpose. God owns me. I belong to God. I am his slave. I am glad to be his slave because being His slave is the only real freedom there is. I have been the slave of Satan, so I know he promises his slaves freedom, but it is a lie. There is only true liberty for the sons of God. 1 John 3: 1. Therefore, the Bible says I am a "saint" in the sense of being justified and sanctified. I am sure you are aware of the way the Bible uses these terms. Only holy people can keep the Sabbath holy. That means that only people who are totally given over to God can really keep the Sabbath holy. God promises to make us holy in this way. He does it through the Holy Spirit in our lives, which God gives to us as a gift when we are are in complete submission to Jesus.
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#192241 - 10/11/08 07:26 AM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
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[quote] why does it matter which day of the week they keep holy?
It doesn't.... Guess that answers that.
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#192243 - 10/11/08 07:37 AM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
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Homosexuality, of course, is a sin, whether a person realizes it or not. Just like Sabbath-breaking." No, John...Sabbath breaking is not sin! It will become a seal. When it does become an issue those who oppose it will also oppose the "truth as it is in Christ" (the gospel)! Who says this? What evidence? What do you mean "an issue"? How will this happen? When it becomes an issue, why will anyone keep the 7th day Sabbath if they have been taught all along that the Ten Commandments don't matter or that it doesn't matter which day anyone keeps? Or will they "keep" it at all? Will they "obey" the Sabbath commandment? What exactly will happen in regard to the Sabbath at the time you speak of?
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#192245 - 10/11/08 07:57 AM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
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ROBERT--
Self-love...and self-seeking (which you keep ignoring) are the sins of iniquity. Ellen White clearly brings this out....So does the Bible. But the self-righteous ignores this. I'm not ignoring anything. I don't make accusations. I just talk about issues, etc. ROBERT-- Clearly you are not measuring up, yet you keep pounding folks with law, law, law. And what's ironic is you only list the ones you can outwardly keep and those you can't you ignore. What utter self-righteousness!
Sorry you think that way. I talk about the law here because that is the subject of the thread. I don't consider it "pounding" to talk about God's law in the context of faith. If I knew you felt that way, I would shut up and not say another word about God's law to you. It is not pounding to me. It is only pounding to those who dislike it or cannot submit to it. If you tell me not to talk about it, I will stop mentioning it to you. I love Ps. 119. It is one my favorite chapters in the Bible. I never said I am "measuring up." There is always room for growth. The Holy Spirit continues to lovingly point out our sins and the things in our lives that we need to work on by His grace. Have you noticed? I'm glad He does. I pray that He does and that He never stops. He's getting us ready for heaven and also for the closing of human probation. I believe that time may not be too far off.
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#192267 - 10/11/08 01:05 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15761
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Who says this? What evidence? What do you mean "an issue"? How will this happen? Or will they "keep" it at all? Will they "obey" the Sabbath commandment? Hey, Mr. inquisitioner, cut the inquisition. Do you really think that by asking a zillion questions that your caused is helped? What it tells me is you are getting desperate! Rob
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#192268 - 10/11/08 01:11 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15761
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Self-love...and self-seeking (which you keep ignoring) are the sins of iniquity. Ellen White clearly brings this out....So does the Bible. But the self-righteous ignores this. I'm not ignoring anything.... And then John ignores my reference above, but he's not ignoring it. Maybe you are just forgetful? Rob
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#192269 - 10/11/08 01:23 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15761
Loc: Columbia, SC
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... the Bible says that believers who have accepted Christ completely are indeed holy, no matter what they have done in the past. By faith...not in reality! Therefore, the Bible says I am a "saint" in the sense of being justified and sanctified. No, you are not sanctified...you are being sanctified....Otherwise you would be without sin! Only holy people can keep the Sabbath holy. Pure self-righteousness. The Sabbath points to the fact that I can't add to Christ's perfect redemption. How? He lived a life of agape....And I was "in Him". Hence my humanity was made obedient in the doing and dying of Christ. I am complete, not in myself, but in Him. The Sabbath points to this truth, only you have perverted it to something that only Holy Joes can keep. What utter nonsense. No wonder I stopped attending traditional, legalistic, SDA churches. Rob
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#192761 - 10/13/08 04:09 AM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 683
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I talk about the law here because that is the subject of the thread. I don't consider it "pounding" to talk about God's law in the context of faith. If I knew you felt that way, I would shut up and not say another word about God's law to you. It is not pounding to me. It is only pounding to those who dislike it or cannot submit to it.
If you tell me not to talk about it, I will stop mentioning it to you.
I love Ps. 119. It is one my favorite chapters in the Bible.
Well said. And then there is Romans 2:11-16 combining Law and Judgment in the Gospel as you point out above. Clearly you have been consulting Paul on this subject. in Christ, Bob
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#192763 - 10/13/08 04:13 AM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: Gerry Cabalo]
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 683
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The day isn't holy...You aren't holy...only God is holy. The day pointed to a perfect & holy creation because all of it was made in God's image after His likeness. Days aren't holy....The 7th-day is a sign and what it points to is perfect and complete [holy].
Again it is written: "So God blessed the seventh day AND MADE IT HOLY, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation." Gen 2:3 ESV.
That only God is ESSENTIALLY holy - we agree, but a holy God can declare anything holy as He wishes. And that includes the sanctuary and all that it contained, and even days, yes, especially the Sabbath.
True - only God is holy -- only HE can make something Holy. We can make stuff up on our own -- and then we have nothing more than "man-made-tradition" -- but God by contrast can make something Holy.
Mark 7
6 And He said to them, ""Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: " THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7 " BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'
8 ""Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.''
9 He was also saying to them, ""You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
10 ""For Moses said, " HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, " HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
11 but you say, "If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),'
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.''
Edited by BobRyan (10/13/08 04:16 AM)
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#192797 - 10/13/08 12:44 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: BobRyan]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15761
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men. And yes you do hold on to tradition....
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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