#186646 - 09/18/08 05:54 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
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By the way, the first reason given for keeping the Sabbath is the creation; the second reason is that they were freed from Egyptian slavery. Why is that a reason? 1] The Sabbath of creation no longer points to a perfect creation and hence God no longer rests from His perfect work because, thanks to the fall, it is imperfect. Since we are to rest as God rested and since God isn't resting any longer as it pertains to the creation, then we need to follow His example and not rest. 2] The Sabbath, as it pointed to a perfect redemption from bondage, is a Jewish sign. Hence, we are not called to acknowledge the Sabbath from these two views. Rob I understand that you are repeating what Jack Sequeira says, and that is OK if you choose to do that. You are free to follow Jack Sequeira if you want. However, the Bible at Exodus 20 tells us that the reason for keeping the Sabbath on the 7th day of the week is that God created the world and rested the seventh-day, wherefore God blessed the sabbath-day and made it holy. In the original of Deut. 5, as the most ancient copies of those verses show, that reason for keeping the Sabbath is repeated. The reason given does not say anything at all about a "perfect creation." It says simply that God is the One who made the heavens and the earth. This is the reason given for keeping the Sabbath: God made us. The fact of the fall does not change anything: God made the world; that is what's significant as far as the fourth commandment is concerned. A second reason is redemption. God freed us from slavery to sin, just as He freed Israel from slavery in Egypt. (The church is spiritual Israel; it was redeemed from slavery also.) Those are my reasons for keeping the Sabbath, on the basis of what the Bible says. Jesus Christ not only made the world and humanity, but Jesus Christ died so that we might be free from sin. That is redemption. There is nothing here which says that the Fall changed those reasons for keeping the Sabbath. Therefore, they are still legitimate reasons for keeping the weekly Sabbath. Both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy say this plainly. "So long as the heavens and the earth endure, the Sabbath will continue as a sign of the Creator's power." See DA 281-289.
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#186652 - 09/18/08 06:12 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
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Again, folks, we must remember that the Sabbath is a sign or symbol that points to a truth.
Gen 2:2-3 and Ex 20:8-11 are linked
Gen 2:2 By the seventh day God had finished the work [of creation] he had been doing [past tense]; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made set it apart, [why?] because on it [the 7th day] he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
Why did God rest? Because His work was finished.... You are right, and notice that there is nothing there at all about a change resulting from the Fall. The Fall did not change the eternal fact that God is our creator. God gave the reason for keeping the Sabbath as a reminder of God as our Creator, and this reason was given in Eden and was repeated in Exodus 20, spoken by the voice of God and written by God's finger in stone. The Fall changed nothing as far as the keeping of the Sabbath is concerned. We still keep it for the same reason, with the addition that resting on it also now points to the "rest" of faith now and ultimate salvation then that we will experience in heaven. Hebrews 4. Hebrews 4 is in addition to Genesis 2 and Exodus 20; Deut. 5. The reasons given in Hebrews 4 is in addition; they are not a contradiction of the reason given in the Ten Commandments. All of this is WONDERFUL news for all people! God not only made us but He loved us enough to die for our freedom from sin and to give us eternal life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#186666 - 09/18/08 07:25 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
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The Sabbath was hallowed at the creation. As ordained for man, it had its origin when "the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy." Job 38:7. Peace brooded over the world; for earth was in harmony with heaven. "God saw everything that He had made, and, behold, it was very good;" and He rested in the joy of His completed work. Gen. 1:31.
Because He had rested upon the Sabbath, "God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it,"--set it apart to a holy use. He gave it to Adam as a day of rest. It was a memorial of the work of creation, and thus a sign of God's power and His love. The Scripture says, "He hath made His wonderful works to be remembered." "The things that are made," declare "the invisible things of Him since the creation of the world," "even His everlasting power and divinity." Gen. 2:3; Ps. 111:4; Rom. 1:20, R. V.
All things were created by the Son of God. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. . . . All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made." John 1:1-3. And since the Sabbath is a memorial of the work of creation, it is a token of the love and power of Christ.
The Sabbath calls our thoughts to nature, and brings us into communion with the Creator. In the song of the bird, the sighing of the trees, and the music of the sea, we still may hear His voice who talked with Adam in Eden in the cool of the day. And as we behold His power in nature we find comfort, for the word that created all things is that which speaks life to the soul. He "who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." 2 Cor. 4:6. . . .
The Sabbath was embodied in the law given from Sinai; but it was not then first made known as a day of rest. The people of Israel had a knowledge of it before they came to Sinai. On the way thither the Sabbath was kept. When some profaned it, the Lord reproved them, saying, "How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws?" Ex. 16:28.
The Sabbath was not for Israel merely, but for the world. It had been made known to man in Eden, and, like the other precepts of the Decalogue, it is of imperishable obligation. Of that law of which the fourth commandment forms a part, Christ declares, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law." So long as the heavens and the earth endure, the Sabbath will continue as a sign of the Creator's power. And when Eden shall bloom on earth again, God's holy rest day will be honored by all beneath the sun. "From one Sabbath to another" the inhabitants of the glorified new earth shall go up "to worship before Me, saith the Lord." Matt. 5:18; Isa. 66:23. . . .
"Wherefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." These words are full of instruction and comfort. Because the Sabbath was made for man, it is the Lord's day. It belongs to Christ. For "all things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made." John 1:3. Since He made all things, He made the Sabbath. By Him it was set apart as a memorial of the work of creation. It points to Him as both the Creator and the Sanctifier. It declares that He who created all things in heaven and in earth, and by whom all things hold together, is the head of the church, and that by His power we are reconciled to God. For, speaking of Israel, He said, "I gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them,"--make them holy. Ezek. 20:12. Then the Sabbath is a sign of Christ's power to make us holy. And it is given to all whom Christ makes holy. As a sign of His sanctifying power, the Sabbath is given to all who through Christ become a part of the Israel of God.
And the Lord says, "If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable; . . . then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord." Isa. 58:13, 14. To all who receive the Sabbath as a sign of Christ's creative and redeeming power, it will be a delight. Seeing Christ in it, they delight themselves in Him. The Sabbath points them to the works of creation as an evidence of His mighty power in redemption. While it calls to mind the lost peace of Eden, it tells of peace restored through the Saviour. And every object in nature repeats His invitation, "Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matt 11:28.
Published in The Desire of Ages, pp. 281-289.
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#186742 - 09/18/08 11:13 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15756
Loc: Columbia, SC
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I understand that you are repeating what Jack Sequeira says, and that is OK if you choose to do that. You are free to follow Jack Sequeira if you want. Thank you for your permission, but actually I am following the Bible. I know you are heavily influenced by EGW. In fact just about everything you state comes straight from her way of thinking, but that's okay you are free to think with a closed mind. The reason given does not say anything at all about a "perfect creation." It says simply that God is the One who made the heavens and the earth. This is the reason given for keeping the Sabbath: God made us. Hey, this might be hard for you, but God created us perfect "in Adam". Even Eve was taken from Adam. That's because God doesn't make junk (as some say). Humanity perfectly reflected the self-emptying love of God. We were made in His likeness after His image. That's why God rested. His work was complete. That's why God rested the 7th day. God freed us from slavery to sin, just as He freed Israel from slavery in Egypt. (The church is spiritual Israel; it was redeemed from slavery also.) Please, stay with the context. One thing I've learned about SDA is that they can be just as bad as other denominations when it comes to cutting & pasting their favorite verses together to make up a doctrine. The fact is God freed the Jews and that's why it was connected to the Sabbath. Take is as it reads..... Those are my reasons for keeping the Sabbath, on the basis of what the Bible says. No, it's you interpretation of what the Bible says.... There is nothing here which says that the Fall changed those reasons for keeping the Sabbath. Sure there are: 1] The reason for keeping the Sabbath in the original law was changed from one of creation to the redemption of the Jews from bondage. I think God was trying to tell us something! 2] God is not our creator. Wow! that sounds bad, doesn't it? But if you THINK it out you'll find I am 100% correct. If God is your creator then He created "sin" - He created a defective humanity. Did God create Satan? No, God created Lucifer. Likewise "in Adam" your life was made perfect. No defects...no mortality...no sin. And when God was finished He rested until sin entered....
So the Sabbath did (past tense) point to my perfect life "in Adam". But Adam fell, and when he sinned we were made sinners. Why? We share his fallen life.Both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy say this plainly. "So long as the heavens and the earth endure, the Sabbath will continue as a sign of the Creator's power." See DA 281-289. No, EGW said that. Lazy Adventists use her writing to escape wrestling with the Bible and learning what it has to say....It's always easy to say, "Thus saith Ellen White"! Sorry, I can't accept this type of idolatry. Rob
Edited by Robert (09/18/08 11:18 PM)
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#186744 - 09/18/08 11:21 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15756
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Published in The Desire of Ages, pp. 281-289.
We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed.
The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God’s people, should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves, to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition, and worship they know not what.
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#186746 - 09/18/08 11:30 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
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[quote] The reason for keeping the Sabbath in the original law was changed from one of creation to the redemption of the Jews from bondage. I think God was trying to tell us something! It's been proven by the Dead Sea Scrolls that the original reading at Deut. 5 refers to the creation as the main reason for the keeping of the Sabbath. It is no different from Exodus 20, except that Moses adds that the people were freed from slavery by the same God who created the world. But let us suppose you are right, that Deut. 5 refers only to the liberation of the Jews from slavery? That does not alter the fact that when God proclaimed the Sabbath and wrote it on stone, God Himself made the direct connection between the creation of the world and the weekly Sabbath. Moses' retelling of the law before the Israelites went into the Promised Land does not change what God said and wrote in Exodus 20. Those two reasons do not contradict each other. On the contrary, creation and redemption complement each other. Yes, I agree that God is trying to tell us something. Both in the Bible and in the Spirit of prophecy, God is telling us that the Sabbath is a memorial of creation and a reminder that God frees us from slavery. In Romans 6, of course, Paul speaks of our freedom from slavery to sin, so it is a very appropriate symbol.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#186747 - 09/18/08 11:32 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: Robert]
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Swiss n Swedish American
Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 9827
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
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Thank you for your permission, but actually I am following the Bible. I know you are heavily influenced by EGW. In fact just about everything you state comes straight from her way of thinking, but that's okay you are free to think with a closed mind.
No, EGW said that. Lazy Adventists use her writing to escape wrestling with the Bible and learning what it has to say....It's always easy to say, "Thus saith Ellen White"! Sorry, I can't accept this type of idolatry.
Rob
You know Rob ... you bring up a valid point. Many SDAs 'think' they are free to 'think' and that they are. But in reality they are just robots studying EGW and making her views theirs instead of studying the Bible and making the Bible theirs. 
_________________________
Another one of Woodies Goodies Love WON Another. Lord, make me the person my dog thinks I am.
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#186748 - 09/18/08 11:32 PM
Re: Was the Sabbath just for the Jews...?
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15756
Loc: Columbia, SC
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The Fall changed nothing as far as the keeping of the Sabbath is concerned. No, your Sabbath keeping is a lie because it points to a perfect creation. That creation has fallen and hence the Sabbath of creation no longer points to a perfect creation. Again, for those hard-headed folks, God rested because His work was perfect...it was complete. So when you rest as God rested, you are symbolically stating that you rest because you agree that God's work of creation is perfect. Well, if that's you conclusion I would have to say this would make one rather delusional because this world is anything but perfect. As soon as Adam fell God stopped resting in His perpetual Sabbath. He immediately started working. Do you know what His work was? Right, saving you "in Christ", which was secured on the cross.Eventually we will receive our new creation "in Christ Jesus". When that happens then the Sabbath will come full circle and once again stand as a sign of perfection. Then God will once again rest in His perfect and finished restoration. Rob
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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