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#195898 - 10/26/08 06:05 AM Re: Adventists and Creation (YEC) vs Darwinism [Re: John317]
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 1479
Loc: Colorado
More people give on on 'religion' because of other 'religionists', why all the attempts to blame it on 'evolution'. Christ did not come at the time He did in history because of evolution, but because of 'religiosity'!
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#195953 - 10/26/08 04:07 PM Re: Adventists and Creation (YEC) vs Darwinism [Re: CoAspen]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 683
As it turns out - atheism is not "more Christlike" than Christianity.

In Rev 12 the pure woman is not "a bunch of atheists".

In Romans 1 those "Without excuse" are not "The church of Christ" in all ages but they ARE those who clearly see the invisible attributes of God displayed "in the things that ARE made".

Just out of curiousity -- does this "sound like Darwinism" to you?

"SIX days you shall labor...for IN SIX DAYS the LORD MADE" Ex 20:8-11

Is that how Darwinists describe the timeline for the creation of all SPECIES of life on earth?

How about this?

Quote:
Story of Redemption - pg 22

Very happy were the holy pair in Eden. Unlimited control was given them over every living thing. The lion and the lamb sported peacefully and harmlessly around them, or slumbered at their feet. Birds of every variety of color and plumage flitted among the trees and flowers and about Adam and Eve, while their mellow-toned music echoed among the trees in sweet accord to the praises of their Creator. {SR 22.2}

Adam and Eve were charmed with the beauties of their Eden home. They were delighted with the little songsters around them, wearing their bright yet graceful plumage, and warbling forth their happy, cheerful music. The holy pair united with them and raised their voices in harmonious songs of love, praise, and adoration to the Father and His dear Son for the tokens of love which surrounded them. They recognized the order and harmony of creation, which spoke of wisdom and knowledge that were infinite. Some

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new beauty and additional glory of their Eden home they were continually discovering, which filled their hearts with deeper love and brought from their lips expressions of gratitude and reverence to their Creator.


Is that how Darwinist's describe the environment of the very FIRST humans?

IF instead of taking that printed view of "origins" above -- once chooses the direct contradiction to it found in the pure story telling of darwinism -- WOULD they conclude as DARWIN did that the two views are opposed to each other?

Does it really take a rocket scientist to SEE the gap as some have supposed here?

in Christ,

Bob

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#195954 - 10/26/08 04:14 PM Re: Adventists and Creation (YEC) vs Darwinism [Re: BobRyan]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 683
When you read the myths of Darwinism as they describe the origin and environment of the first humans does it sound like this..??

Quote:
Story of Redemption p20-22

And now God said to His Son, "Let us make man in

20
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our image." As Adam came forth from the hand of his Creator he was of noble height and of beautiful symmetry. He was more than twice as tall as men now living upon the earth, and was well proportioned. His features were perfect and beautiful. His complexion was neither white nor sallow, but ruddy, glowing with the rich tint of health. Eve was not quite as tall as Adam. Her head reached a little above his shoulders. She, too, was noble, perfect in symmetry, and very beautiful. {SR 20.2}

This sinless pair wore no artificial garments. They were clothed with a covering of light and glory, such as the angels wear. While they lived in obedience to God, this circle of light enshrouded them. Although everything God had made was in the perfection of beauty, and there seemed nothing wanting upon the earth which God had created to make Adam and Eve happy, yet He manifested His great love to them by planting a garden especially for them. A portion of their time was to be occupied in the happy employment of dressing the garden, and a portion in receiving the visits of angels, listening to their instruction, and in happy meditation. Their labor was not wearisome but pleasant and invigorating. This beautiful garden was to be their home



Is it even conceivable that an Adventist would say "yep all true and so also is Darwinism's story telling about the first humans"????

Clearly DARWIN admits that it finally got to the point where even HE had to CHOOSE EITHER the bible account or his own story telling -- and of course he settled on his own story telling and completely rejected Christianity.

As sad as it is that he made that choice -- still how can anyone be so confused as to suppose that the CHOICE did not NEED to be made because holding to BOTH is a self-conflicted and impossible logical argument.

in Christ,

Bob



Edited by BobRyan (10/26/08 04:14 PM)

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#195955 - 10/26/08 04:19 PM Re: Adventists and Creation (YEC) vs Darwinism [Re: Bravus]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 683
Originally Posted By: Bravus
OK, leave aside all the repetition: I've taken Darwin's comments into consideration, consider Dawkins a dork and don't know or care who Meyers and Provine are. And I really do understand (what you understand by) SIX DAYS.

What NSF study? Can you link to that?


Ahhh - so you admit to "seeing" the gap between the Bible and the storytelling of Darwinism?

So apparently does the NSF -

Quote:

When the question about evolution was prefaced by "according to the theory of evolution," 74% marked true; only 44% marked true when it was not. Similarly, 62% agreed with the prefaced question about the big bang, but only 35% agreed when the prefatory phrase was omitted. These differences probably indicate that many Americans hold religious beliefs that cause them to be skeptical of established scientific ideas, even when they have some basic familiarity with those ideas.
http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind06/c7/c7s2.htm
[/size]


And of course "scientific ideas" in the context above are not chemical equations, physics, math or engineering -- it is the frauds and myths of "evolutionism" draped in the cloak of science as IF it were something other than the religious argument that Colin Patterson claimed or as IF evolutionism did not have the confirmed junk-scienc hoax and fraud history that even atheist darwinists now admit that it has.

I wonder if the NSF would consider "rejecting the Bible" to be a "good thing" or a "Bad thing" for what passes for "science" in their comments above!

in Christ,

Bob


Edited by BobRyan (10/26/08 04:24 PM)

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#196006 - 10/26/08 10:03 PM Re: Adventists and Creation (YEC) vs Darwinism [Re: BobRyan]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 7427
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
But the NSF report *exactly* supports my point!

I do see the gap you point out. I see it clearly, so feel free to stop pointing it out any time.

But your contention is that what happens is always that people see that gap, as Christians, and it causes them to lose their Christian faith. One-directional cause-and-effect path.

My point is simply that sometimes people stop being Christians *first*, for a huge variety of other reasons. Once you stop being a Christian, you stop having this set of religious beliefs that you believe requires you to believe certain things about origins. In the absence of those beliefs, you are more likely to accept other explanations, including evolution.

The reality is definitely some mix of the two possibilities: some people stop being Christian because they start believing in evolution, others start believing in evolution because they stop being Christian.

What is dishonest is your strong and repeated contention that it is only ever one of these paths.
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#196008 - 10/26/08 10:10 PM Re: Adventists and Creation (YEC) vs Darwinism [Re: CoAspen]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA


It's significant that the Sabbath began to be proclaimed about the same year that Charles Darwin wrote Origin of Species.

The Sabbath calls attention to God as the Creator, as do the Three Angels Messages.

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#196009 - 10/26/08 10:22 PM Re: Adventists and Creation (YEC) vs Darwinism [Re: Bravus]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA


I've never known any evolutionists who believed Hebrews 11: 3- 6--

3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

None of the evolutionist that I know or have read believe in Abel or Adam or Enoch, nor do they believe that God rewards those who seek him.

I am not denying that there may be some evolutionists who believe these things, but there has to be reason that it's extremely rare.

Do you believe it is rare, and if so, why is it?

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#196010 - 10/26/08 10:23 PM Re: Adventists and Creation (YEC) vs Darwinism [Re: John317]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 7427
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Yes, that was a very exciting period in intellectual history for all sorts of reasons - incredibly productive of a wide variety of perspectives. How many new Christian denominations arose around that time? And how many influential philosophies and ideas.

For those who are willing to see the SDA church as the One True Flowering and *everything* else that happened in world history as demonic counterfeits...
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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate

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#196012 - 10/26/08 10:34 PM Re: Adventists and Creation (YEC) vs Darwinism [Re: Bravus]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA


No one is arguing that everything that happened during that period was a demonic counterfeit. But it is very clear from reading Revelation and the Spirit of prophecy that Satan is working in the world to bring about the destruction of as many people as he can.

We can say for certainty that both atheistic communism and the Nazi movement were highly influenced by evolution. These movements resulted in the deaths of millions in the 20th century. And we know those movements were not of God.

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#196016 - 10/26/08 10:48 PM Re: Adventists and Creation (YEC) vs Darwinism [Re: John317]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 7427
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Agreed that they were not of God. Partially agreed that they were influenced by evolutionary theory, but as a pretext to do things they already believed, rather than as a cause. There is nothing at all in evolutionary theory, properly understood, that condones genocide. For that matter there is nothing in Marx that condones Stalinism either.

I may have over-stated the case above, but the kinds of historical connections you are drawing still do not get at the chicken-and-egg questions around atheism and evolution.
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