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#190513 - 10/04/08 03:38 AM not one thread of human devising in it
skyblue888 Online   content


Registered: 03/16/07
Posts: 477
Loc: Canada
To the Jews who asked Jesus, "What must we do to work the works of God?" Jesus answered them, saying, "The work of God is that you believe on Him whom He has sent." John 6:29.

Faith is the "labour" by which we enter into rest. Faith is "the work of God" for "through Him we believe." John 1:7. Thus, as it is also written, "Faith is the gift of God." Eph.2:8. And "God had dealt to every man the measure of faith." Rom.12:3. Exercised, "Your faith grows exceedingly." 2 Thess.1:3. It is the gift of God but the power to exercise it is ours. It is by exercising this faith that we enter into God's rest in the sense that this faith, which is the only true faith, brings the works of God into the life, "the works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Eph.2:10.

This faith is the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. "You cannot explain this faith that lays right hold upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into the life." And "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything" and "It is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." Faith and Works, p.65,66,27; Testimonies to Ministers, p.92.

Thus "The only faith that will benefit us is that which appropriates His merits to ourselves." Desire of Ages, p.347.

"Righteousness is right doing." Christ's Object Lessons, p.312. "Righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God." "The life of God in the soul is man's only hope." Mount of Blessing, p.18; Ministry of Healing, p.115.

"God will accept everyone that comes to Him trusting wholly in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. Then love springs up in the heart. There may be no ecstasy of feeling but there is an abiding, peaceful trust. Every burden is light; for the yoke which Christ imposes is easy. Duty becomes a delight, and sacrifice a pleasure. The path that before seemed shrouded in darkness becomes bright with beams from the Sun of Righteousness. This is walking in the light as Christ is in the light." Selected Messages, Vol.1, p.354.

In order to for Christ's righteousness to be established in the believer on a continual basis, "he must daily apply to the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour that he may become a vessel fit for the Master's use." E.G.White, Faith and Works, p.86.

sky

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way he can attain to righteousness is through faith; by faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ." Faith and Works, p.101.

This is righteousness by faith according to God's idea of it. This teaching has in it not one thread of human devising.
_________________________
"Through the merits of Christ we may find the approval of God." Our Father Cares, p.122.

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#190519 - 10/04/08 04:04 AM Re: not one thread of human devising in it [Re: skyblue888]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA

Does "righteousness by faith" include both imputed and imparted righteousness? Some say it is only imputed righteousness (justification-- forgiveness, being put right with God, receiving credit for Christ's goodness); others say that it includes imparted righteousness, which is works of faith and growth that spring from a faith-based, personal, daily relationship with Jesus Christ.

What do you believe?

Also, please expand on the statement that

Quote:
In order to for Christ's righteousness to be established in the believer on a continual basis, "he must daily apply to the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour that he may become a vessel fit for the Master's use." E.G.White, Faith and Works, p.86.


Some see a contradiction between the two following statements---

Quote:
"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way he can attain to righteousness is through faith; by faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ." Faith and Works, p.101.

This is righteousness by faith according to God's idea of it. This teaching has in it not one thread of human devising.


There are those who take the last line to mean that we do nothing and Christ did it all on the cross 2000 years ago. How does this idea square with what the Spirit of prophecy says here?



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#190525 - 10/04/08 04:15 AM Re: not one thread of human devising in it [Re: John317]
Robert Online   usa


Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15764
Loc: Columbia, SC
Originally Posted By: John317
How does this idea square with what the Spirit of prophecy...?


Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"

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#190544 - 10/04/08 05:05 AM Re: not one thread of human devising in it [Re: John317]
Redwood Online   content
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 9833
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
There are those who take the last line to mean that we do nothing and Christ did it all on the cross 2000 years ago.


Do nothing? I think not. We must accept and believe that Christ did it all on the cross 2000 years ago. That there is nothing we do or say that can add anything to our Salvation. Salvation is based totally on the merits of Jesus. Done end of story.
_________________________
Another one of Woodies Goodies
Love WON Another.
Lord, make me the person my dog thinks I am.

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#190548 - 10/04/08 05:12 AM Re: not one thread of human devising in it [Re: Redwood]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Redwood
Quote:
There are those who take the last line to mean that we do nothing and Christ did it all on the cross 2000 years ago.


Do nothing? I think not. We must accept and believe that Christ did it all on the cross 2000 years ago. That there is nothing we do or say that can add anything to our Salvation. Salvation is based totally on the merits of Jesus. Done end of story.


OK, but Skyblue is quoting from the Spirit of prophecy. Does the Spirit of prophecy say that all we do is believe that Jesus died 2,000 year ago?

How is that related to this statement--

And "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything" and "It is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." Faith and Works, p.65,66,27; Testimonies to Ministers, p.92.

What is "righteousness by faith"? Is it only imputed or is it imparted also? What is the white robe of Christ's righteousness?

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#190549 - 10/04/08 05:15 AM Re: not one thread of human devising in it [Re: John317]
Redwood Online   content
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 9833
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
The first one includes salvation. The second one is not referring to salvation. The second one is talking about AFTER being saved.
_________________________
Another one of Woodies Goodies
Love WON Another.
Lord, make me the person my dog thinks I am.

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#190550 - 10/04/08 05:18 AM Re: not one thread of human devising in it [Re: John317]
Robert Online   usa


Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15764
Loc: Columbia, SC
Originally Posted By: John317
"It is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." Faith and Works, p.65,66,27; Testimonies to Ministers, p.92.


He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” [Ellen White]

Why would Ellen White demand OC terms?

Rob
_________________________
"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"

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#190551 - 10/04/08 05:19 AM Re: not one thread of human devising in it [Re: Redwood]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Redwood
The first one includes salvation. The second one is not referring to salvation. The second one is talking about AFTER being saved.


What if a person says, I will accept the first but not the second? Or maybe doesn't say it but that is his life. What then? What does the Spirit of prophecy say on this point?

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#190555 - 10/04/08 05:25 AM Re: not one thread of human devising in it [Re: John317]
Redwood Online   content
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 9833
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
I am not sure why the constant reference to the SoP ...

Rob and I get in trouble when we quote SoP so why not you?

I would much rather ask 'What does the Bible say?'

Faith without works is dead.

But the Gospel of Red ... would say that there does not exist such an animal.
For it is simply not possible to have Faith and yet no works. But those works do not add anything to our saved status.


Edited by Redwood (10/04/08 05:29 AM)
_________________________
Another one of Woodies Goodies
Love WON Another.
Lord, make me the person my dog thinks I am.

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#190565 - 10/04/08 05:41 AM Re: not one thread of human devising in it [Re: Robert]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Robert
Originally Posted By: John317
"It is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." Faith and Works, p.65,66,27; Testimonies to Ministers, p.92.


He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” [Ellen White]

Why would Ellen White demand OC terms?

Rob


Is it possible you are misunderstanding either Ellen White or the Bible on this point?

For instance, is it a contradiction to say that love for your wife will mean faithfulness and that although this faithfulness does not earn her love, yet you would be wrong to assume she will go on loving you if you stop being unfaithful?

Another example:

I am born as an American and am free. I don't have do to anything to earn the privileges of being a free citizen. It is like a gift.

But there are laws that I am expected to obey.

Do I earn the right to be a free American by obeying? No.

So, since I don't earn anything by obeying, what would happen if I stop obeying the laws? Will I remain a free American for long? Probably not. But does that fact prove that my obeying was really earning freedom? Of course not.

It's the same with obedience to God. Abraham was justified by faith, apart from obedience. But would he have been justified if He had stayed in Haran and refused to obey God's command? His faith was genuine and this is what moved him to obey.

Paul talks about this kind of obedience, at the beginning of Romans as well as near the end. It is the kind of faith God looks for. It is obedience that springs from faith and love and admiration, not from fear.

Can we apply this to the Sabbath?


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