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Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do.
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#190831 - 10/05/08 11:56 AM Communion and Footwashing
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32115
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
A topic of footwashing and communion was started and then deleted. I had responded but when I clicked submit it would not accept it. I hate to see my good work go to waste ... so here is my response ...

This is a good topic of discussion Pam. Thanks for bringing it up.

I think your observation is correct. I would dare to say that most do not like the ordinances and will avoid them if they can.

Why? I suppose it is an out-dated ritual. One that most feel uncomfortable with. In the NT time ... they were used to having people touch their feet. In our society ... we are not and it is not a particular blessing when it is done.

I've strived to find a way that this could be more culturally accepted. I think the idea of it is good. But how to make it more accepted .... I am not sure. I don't fully understand why I am so uneasy with it.

I guess that if we just tossed the formal communion setting at church and ONLY did it during a fancy or even a simple more cozy meal setting ... that would be okay with me. The foot washing? I am just not sure how to make it more meaningful.
But, again I would focus on the setting. Either take the time to do it right or don't do it at all. I just feel the rushed setting at church does not cut it. Like you say .... it is the cattle rush.

I guess now that I am thinking of it .... if you had an entire Friday night service dedicated around the footwashing and had it so that you REALLY got to know the person you were serving. It should be a small group kinda thing. Sharing and testimonies could happen. I could find all kinds of good interaction activities. But to do it as we do it now is just going to cement resentment of the whole experience for an entire generation.

I've mentioned before that I would like to see preparation for the footwashing. I would like to see you either assigned a partner or have you ask and sign up with a partner a few weeks ahead of time.

Also ... I feel we do it too often. This makes people lose the importance and significance of the ordinance.

Well ... you have hit a big topic but I had better let other share their two cents worth.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
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#190834 - 10/05/08 12:01 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Woody]
rudywoofs Offline
exwitch, researcher, Scout's Mom


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 9035
Here was my original post:

I was going to have this put in the *Things we don't talk about* forum, but it can go here just as well.

Why do churches always seem more than half empty on the Sabbaths when there is Communion (if it is announced the week or two beforehand)?

I have to admit I have not been to a Communion Sabbath since I was baptized - not usually because I didn't want to, but because of other reasons keeping me from attending that particular church.

But, OTOH, I don't like Communion Sabbaths. The church I was attending had all the people move up to the front by the table and take the wine and bread from the Elders. That seemed like a cattle rush to me. Very disorderly and irreverent. Other places where the deacons passed out the bread and wine seemed more orderly.

The foot washing is what I didn't like. I'll wash anyone's feet, but I don't like people touching mine. It's a quirk of mine. duno

Obviously other people don't like going to church on Communion Sabbaths. What are your reasons???
_________________________
Pam

Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup.

Mr. Watson, come here. I need marshmallows, chocolate and a heat source. - Alexander Graham Cracker

If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony.

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#192003 - 10/10/08 10:32 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: rudywoofs]
Gerry Cabalo Offline



Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 15381
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
I invite you to come to our little church. Our attendance does NOT diminish during communion Sabbath.

I truly believe, that when we understand what the blood covenant means to us, we will look forward to every communion Sabbath.

Gerry

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#192096 - 10/10/08 08:09 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Gerry Cabalo]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32115
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Guess that puts you and I in our place Pam.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#192103 - 10/10/08 08:28 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Woody]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 6593
Loc: Georgia
Well you have to admit -- Church is usually a spectator sport. The one exception is Communion Sabbath.

AS for "Why we do it" -- now that is a good topic.

But -- that thing about "just so happened to miss everyone since baptism" but wasn't trying to stay away from it?? That is a new one on me.

in Christ,

Bob


Edited by BobRyan (10/10/08 08:29 PM)
_________________________
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#192220 - 10/10/08 11:17 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Woody]
Gerry Cabalo Offline



Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 15381
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
Originally Posted By: Redwood
Guess that puts you and I in our place Pam.


It was not my intention to put anyone in "their place." If that's how it came out, my apologies. When two parties made a covenant in the OT, they cut the animal in two, (see Gen 15 for an example), meaning that one would rather be cut in two than break the covenant. And that is exactly what God is pledging in the blood covenant, it means that God would rather be cut in two than break His covenant promises to His people.

To be reminded of this fact during every communion service is a most precious thought to me.


Gerry

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#193872 - 10/18/08 12:05 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Gerry Cabalo]
fccool Offline


Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 4009
Imagine a George Bush showing up at your door tomorrow and saying that he would like to wash your car. That's the kind of experience it was for the disciples. Communion is far more than eating and drinking and washing feet... but it's a reminder, a symbol to remind us to remember the sacrifice, and that we aught to sacrifice for each other.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the communion is practiced in a correct way today... not from the ritualistic standpoint, but from the spiritual standpoint. From the top down, I think that we seek convenience above sacrifice, and we are far from church described in Acts, where access of the wealthy was voluntarily used to take care of the poor. There's much hoarding of wealth going on today needlessly.

When the true revival takes place, perhaps the churches will outgrow the Saturday social clubs these are today. Forgive my criticism, but I don't want to be lying to you or to myself.

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#193875 - 10/18/08 12:10 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: fccool]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32115
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
fccool ... Do you feel that our churches are Saturday Social Clubs?

If so how. And if so ... what can be done to change them.

And if so ... what are you personally doing that is different?

And what are you doing to change this is your area.

And how would you suggest that the rest of us promote change?
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#193911 - 10/18/08 01:43 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Woody]
melvin mccarty Offline
**Rest in Peace our friend, you are missed**
Past the 700 posts

Registered: 05/18/02
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Matthew, Mark, Luke and Paul do not mention the washing of feet as part of the communion service I think. John tells about the footwashing but not the communion service so there is no Biblical connection there at all. Am I correct? mel

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#193915 - 10/18/08 02:04 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Woody]
fccool Offline


Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 4009
Red, unfortunately... YES. I feel that Adventist churches in the US are very much comparable to a Saturday morning social club. By social club I mean a like of college fraternity where people pay their dues to make sure that they are "members" and belong to something, and God forbid if they are more than that. There is very little actual sacrifice involved. More effort is put into the "church choir" than to actually doing something meaningful that will inform and benefit the community. The church is not growing, and the young people are leaving in large numbers.

Frankly, instead of us sending missionaries outside of the US, I think we need missionaries coming here.


What can we do to change the social club mentality? You can't change people. Only people can let God change their minds. People are unwilling to change, because their don't see the need for change to begin with. Until we see the desperate need for change, nothing will happen. We'll still come in and sing the songs on Sabbath morning about how great God is... same song we've been signing for ages, yet when someone comes to our door with a real need we send them away afraid to be "abused".

What do I do to promote the change?

1) Don't wait for approval... it will never come. Adopt the Nike attitude of "Just do it". If you have an outreach idea, don't wait for the funds/church approval. Pray about it, and if you feel convicted enough, just do it, and God will supply the rest. Currently I'm in progress of producing a monthly DVD Journal with latest world news from Christian perspective, and some practical day to day things that people can take away from the Word of God, thus demonstrating what it means to follow Christ without use of the good old cliches such as the pulpit "prayer of salvation", which is nowhere found in the Bible.

2) Manage your time wisely. Avoid meaningless church activities that gobble up much of the time of resources that could be used more purposefully. For that reason, I am no longer take part in board meetings. Way too much time is spent discussing things of little eternal importance IMO.

3) Same as #2 but with your money. Spend it on outreach activities rather than comfort. The best churches are not the ones which are best looking, or air conditioned.

4) Associate with like minded people in the church. Start a small group where you can fill that void for people who care, but would like to go beyond the social club church limits.

5) Know what you are talking about, and be prepared to give answer to anyone who questions you on the spot... not by means of a study guides, or "read this book".


6) Stop speaking relegionese, and THINK for crying out loud before we say things. Sometimes listening to some "super spiritual" people speaking makes me realize why some take Christians for simpleminded and naive loops. Here's an example of the "super spiritual" story, by a "super spiritual" member:

A guy at my workplace was hit by a forklift truck. It knocked him out. I immediately stopped and prayed for the guy on the spot at work, and after he got up and shook himself off he ended up with a couple of bruises instead of broken bones. Prayer does work!


Now, to any semi-reasonable and logical person this would be a silly story showing off the simplemindedness of what would appear to be the consensus of the congregation as they say AMEN.

I wanted to raise my hand and ask if he believed that because of that person's prayer God somehow altered the cause of already happened event so that the person was instantly healed? As though God is dependent on our wish for protection of other. Would the guy have broken bones if someone has not prayed for him???? This "super spirituality" can take insane proportions and in fact can be used by Satan to discredit the sound doctrine. I'm not saying that prayer does not work, but getting stuff we want from God is not a major purpose of the prayer.

Then there's a barrage of cliches that we just "know" are right, but we don't know how to explain these any other way. So we get the:

All you need to do to go to heaven is ask Jesus into your heart.

What does that mean to an unsaved person who is worldly minded and understands the idea from a worldly romanticism perspective????? We use these cliches and we think that we know what we are saying, but we don't. HEART=MIND in the Bible. So instead of saying:

"Listen, Christ lived and died to give us a chance to change our minds about certain things, about the way we live our lives"....

we over-romantize the idea with a bit of "super spiritual" spice

All you need to do to go to heaven is ask Jesus into your heart.

The above phrase means nothing in Biblical context, and it's absolutely foreign to the Bible. We don't see people in the Bible praying a "prayer of Salvation" and "asking Jesus into their hearts". Paul uses poetic language to speak to Ephesians when he used the "Christ may dwell in your heart through faith" . They knew exactly what he meant. We don't see the appeal to invite Jesus into their hearts at the day of Pentecost. We see people hearing the doctrine of the apostles, receiving it gladly and being baptized... and God added to their number DAILY.

People are longing for the things that make sense, they come to church and instead of solid doctrine they are fed watered down spiritual cliches. It's no wonder they walk away empty and without any meaning.





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#193947 - 10/18/08 08:47 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: melvin mccarty]
Gerry Cabalo Offline



Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 15381
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
Originally Posted By: melvin mccarty
Matthew, Mark, Luke and Paul do not mention the washing of feet as part of the communion service I think. John tells about the footwashing but not the communion service so there is no Biblical connection there at all. Am I correct? mel


So are you saying that the foot washing is NOT Biblical?


Gerry

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#193959 - 10/18/08 11:01 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Gerry Cabalo]
rudywoofs Offline
exwitch, researcher, Scout's Mom


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 9035
Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo
Originally Posted By: melvin mccarty
Matthew, Mark, Luke and Paul do not mention the washing of feet as part of the communion service I think. John tells about the footwashing but not the communion service so there is no Biblical connection there at all. Am I correct? mel


So are you saying that the foot washing is NOT Biblical?


Gerry


To be perfectly honest, no one has ever shown me in the Bible where Jesus EVER said "Do this in remembrance of me," in regards to footwashing. I think it's just something the *church* added on eons ago.....for whatever reason...

There are a lot of other good things that Jesus did that we could imitate that would be far more helpful to society (and ourselves), i.e., helping the poor and homeless, feeding the hungry..... just imho
_________________________
Pam

Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup.

Mr. Watson, come here. I need marshmallows, chocolate and a heat source. - Alexander Graham Cracker

If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony.

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#193968 - 10/18/08 12:04 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: rudywoofs]
John317 Offline



Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 33718
Loc: near Loma Linda,CA
Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

To be perfectly honest, no one has ever shown me in the Bible where Jesus EVER said "Do this in remembrance of me," in regards to footwashing. I think it's just something the *church* added on eons ago.....for whatever reason...


John 13: 15:

For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

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#193974 - 10/18/08 12:45 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: John317]
rudywoofs Offline
exwitch, researcher, Scout's Mom


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 9035
okay...
_________________________
Pam

Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup.

Mr. Watson, come here. I need marshmallows, chocolate and a heat source. - Alexander Graham Cracker

If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony.

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#193976 - 10/18/08 12:52 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Gerry Cabalo]
melvin mccarty Offline
**Rest in Peace our friend, you are missed**
Past the 700 posts

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
Gerry as an attachment to the communion service can you show where that is in Scripture? Jesus said the disciples should be willing to wash each other's feet but that was a common courtesy at that time and place and it seems someone forgot to have a servant on hand for the occasion. Washing other people's feet is not a sign of servanthood today. There could be many more pertinent ways for us to show a caring spirit today. mel


Edited by melvin mccarty (10/18/08 12:53 PM)

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#193980 - 10/18/08 01:08 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: rudywoofs]
John317 Offline



Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 33718
Loc: near Loma Linda,CA
I think there can be no doubt that Christ's words mean much more than mere washing of feet as we do it. If that is all we did, it wouldn't be worth much. But of course He was telling us to serve one another. If it doesn't teach us that, we're missing the point.

It would be a good thing if, after the foot-washing, we were to go out and actually serve the community or the church in a way that has real meaning rather than just a symbolic meaning.



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#193983 - 10/18/08 01:18 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: melvin mccarty]
John317 Offline



Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 33718
Loc: near Loma Linda,CA
Originally Posted By: melvin mccarty
... There could be many more pertinent ways for us to show a caring spirit today. mel


Good point, but that wouldn't need to mean getting rid of the foot-washing. We should do both, I think. But as your point brings out, there is certainly a danger if anyone thinks that by washing someone's (usually) very clean feet, we are fulfilling Christ's intention. It seems to me that if it's not teaching us to be more kind and loving and thoughtful to others, we're not getting much practical good from it.


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#194007 - 10/18/08 03:15 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: John317]
fccool Offline


Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 4009
Originally Posted By: John317


It would be a good thing if, after the foot-washing, we were to go out and actually serve the community or the church in a way that has real meaning rather than just a symbolic meaning.




Isn't what Christian life is to be anyway... not just on Sabbath after a communion? (I'm not implying that you think otherwise).

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#194014 - 10/18/08 04:02 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: fccool]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32115
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: fccool
Originally Posted By: John317


It would be a good thing if, after the foot-washing, we were to go out and actually serve the community or the church in a way that has real meaning rather than just a symbolic meaning.




Isn't what Christian life is to be anyway... not just on Sabbath after a communion? (I'm not implying that you think otherwise).


I agree with both of your points.

But, let me say that unless we establish ritual 'signs' that are representative of what we are to be like ... we end up not being what we are suppose to be like.

This goes back to what I have talked about regarding my conservative and strict 'rules' for Sabbath observance. If I don't 'guard' the edges of the Sabbath carefully and religiously and even almost legalistically ... I can end up losing that which I value. (The Sabbath) For the Devil is powerful. He will take a mile from you when you thought you were just giving up an inch.

Get the Point?
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#194015 - 10/18/08 04:07 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: fccool]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32115
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
And FcCool ... I almost forgot. Thank you so much for your detailed and thoughtful response.

I appreciate your attitude on this. I think it is good.

Not that I personally agree with each response. But I would just like to say that I think your perspective if fine. I think that each person needs to do as they feel impressed. The traditional church may not fit your needs. It may be fine for another though. (Even though it is not idea.) But I think that each person should energetically follow their ideas of what church should be. We all can contribute more. And more is needed.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#194050 - 10/18/08 05:54 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: melvin mccarty]
Gerry Cabalo Offline



Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 15381
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
Originally Posted By: melvin mccarty
Gerry as an attachment to the communion service can you show where that is in Scripture? Jesus said the disciples should be willing to wash each other's feet but that was a common courtesy at that time and place and it seems someone forgot to have a servant on hand for the occasion. Washing other people's feet is not a sign of servanthood today. There could be many more pertinent ways for us to show a caring spirit today. mel


Mel, here is what Jesus said:

Quote:
[color:red]So when He had washed their feet, taken His garments, and sat down again. He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also OUGHT to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you SHOULD do as I have done to you. Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who swent him. If you know these things, BLESSED ARE YOU IF YOU DO THEM." Jn 13:12-17 NKJ
[/color]

Gerry

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#194064 - 10/18/08 07:00 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: John317]
melvin mccarty Offline
**Rest in Peace our friend, you are missed**
Past the 700 posts

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
Jesus told the disciples that they should be willing to literally wash dirty feet. He did not say it should be made into a sacrament or symbol and added to the communion service did he? Far as I know the Bible does not connect the washing of the disciple's feet to the symbolism of the bread and wine. I do not believe that people would stay away from the communion service if we did not include the foot washing. mel

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#194066 - 10/18/08 07:15 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: melvin mccarty]
John317 Offline



Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 33718
Loc: near Loma Linda,CA


Our church doesn't require people to take part in foot-washing in order to participate in the communion service. We practice an open communion.

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#194070 - 10/18/08 07:28 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: John317]
melvin mccarty Offline
**Rest in Peace our friend, you are missed**
Past the 700 posts

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
Oh really? Hmmmmm mel

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#194077 - 10/18/08 07:51 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: melvin mccarty]
John317 Offline



Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 33718
Loc: near Loma Linda,CA

I've taken part in communion without going to the foot-washing and no one ever said anything to me about it. I'm reading out of a church manual and I see nothing about that aspect of it. When they announce the communion service, they never say anything to the effect that you can't take part without first washing feet. I think it is best to do it, but certainly not required. They usually say that the communion is "open," meaning it is for all believers in Christ (except for those are in "open sin").

So my invitation to you is if you don't like foot washing but want to take part in the communion, go ahead. I can't imagine anyone saying no.

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#194078 - 10/18/08 07:51 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Woody]
fccool Offline


Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 4009
Originally Posted By: Redwood
But I think that each person should energetically follow their ideas of what church should be. We all can contribute more. And more is needed.


Be careful Red. This is the motto of postmodernist. Do what you feel is good for you. :)

I simply try to follow the original church pattern. And it was not fancy.

I can't speak for every local church, but unfortunately our local church is dying off. People are simply unwilling to take a strong stand because it requires some shaking up and serious sacrifices.

So I find the church coasting along. Sure they do the prophecy seminars that 1-2 same non-members would come to. They would do an ambitious Christmas play, which is IMO is a great misalocation of resources and time. Yet, not much of a real outreach.

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#194099 - 10/18/08 11:26 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: fccool]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32115
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
I simply try to follow the original church pattern. And it was not fancy.


So ... if I understand you correctly ... your form of worship is the only style authorized by God? You may try to follow the original one. That is fine. But while I respect that ... was the original one the ONLY one allowed?

To my knowledge ... there is no set form of worship that God dictates us to do. And therefore ... any ideas that you or I may have regarding worship will be fine. As Christians we are lead by the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is who I answer to ... not your interpretation of what you 'feel' is the correct way to conduct church.

I will worship my Creator the way I deem to be correct as lead by the Spirit and the study of scripture. You can do the same if you desire.

I won't condemn your conviction as I pray you will not question my conviction.

Do ANY SDA churches live up to your convictions?
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#194109 - 10/18/08 11:48 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Woody]
fccool Offline


Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 4009
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. All I'm saying is that there is a clear Biblical standard of what church is to be, and what church is to do. I don't think many churches today are living up to the standard... hence the lookwarm age.

We live in "don't stir up controversy" church age. People are dying for some honesty. And I think in churches today we are peddling the "super-spirituality". The deep statements that are void of meaning. Yet many pretend to understand these, but essentially these are like a Christmas play... everyone knows the ending, but nobody knows why they are watching it again, instead of doing something more meaningful.

My purpose is not to criticize anyone in particular, and I can only demand change in my actions. Yet I think we are on the wrong track as a church in postmodern Western society, and we need to recognize it as individual believers.

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#194110 - 10/18/08 11:52 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: fccool]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32115
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
I simply try to follow the original church pattern. And it was not fancy.


Could you describe the original church service that you follow ... other than just 'not fancy'?


Edited by Redwood (10/18/08 11:57 PM)
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#194138 - 10/19/08 01:34 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: John317]
melvin mccarty Offline
**Rest in Peace our friend, you are missed**
Past the 700 posts

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
That's a great way of side stepping the issue isn't it? We had a couple coming to church regularily until it was "communion day" They left and did not come back. There is no provision made for those who do not wish to footwash. Why not have a special meeting for those who wish to wash feet and leave it out of the communion service? mel


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#194142 - 10/19/08 01:43 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: melvin mccarty]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32115
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
Why not have a special meeting for those who wish to wash feet and leave it out of the communion service? mel


Maybe you could start one Mel. I am sure that a Pastor would not object . In some churches I have been in ... the Pastor invites those who want to ... to go to the footwashing service to do so ... but then adds that those who don't want to ... that they can remain in the sanctuary and listen to soft religious music.

Sometimes ... Pastor spouses ... will skip the service. Why? If the Pastor has two or more churches ... the spouse ends up going to many more of the footwashing that might be desireable.

So ... join up with the Pastor's spouse and get something going !!!
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#194145 - 10/19/08 01:58 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: melvin mccarty]
Jeannieb43 Offline
Princess of Pasadena


Registered: 12/29/01
Posts: 3905
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: melvin mccarty
Why not have a special meeting for those who wish to wash feet and leave it out of the communion service? mel



Our church has foot washing between Sabbath school and church service. Many members do not attend it, but for those who do, it's a great blessing. There's no requirement to do so.
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Jeannie


...Change is inevitable; growth is optional....

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#194147 - 10/19/08 02:01 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Jeannieb43]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32115
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Jeannie ... Do you still have the communion as the church service? OR at another time? Some prefer to have communion on Friday nights.
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Christian from the cradle to the grave
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#194162 - 10/19/08 07:44 AM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Woody]
fccool Offline


Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 4009
Originally Posted By: Redwood
Quote:
I simply try to follow the original church pattern. And it was not fancy.


Could you describe the original church service that you follow ... other than just 'not fancy'?


Red, I'm not talking about a church service here. That's the problem today, because the "church" is being take for a church service. What I'm talking about is what goes on outside of the church service.

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#194205 - 10/19/08 12:32 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: fccool]
Woody Offline
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 32115
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Oh. Since the topic of this thread was about parts of the church service ... I got confused I guess. Do you have any problem with the church services that we have. And if so ... how would you change them?
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May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#194378 - 10/19/08 11:47 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: Woody]
fccool Offline


Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 4009
Not really, I would not change anything about the service. My take on it is that the church service is to serve people... to encourage, and to remind, and to educate. I would love it to be more interactive, although that's the purpose of the Sabbath school, yet I think it would be great if pastors would open the mic for some questions/discussions at the end of the sermon.

My criticism is how the church purpuses the resources beyond that. For example, I was approached to do a Christmas program that is about 50 pages of music long. Now, I know music enough to know that we don't have talent in church capable of pulling it off with ease. It would be lots of grinding for that 1 hour of terrible singing :). Not only that, but it was proposed to make it a community event at a large high school auditorium. Now, I'm all about having a little fun, yet why not have fun doing something that we can do well????




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#194381 - 10/19/08 11:58 PM Re: Communion and Footwashing [Re: fccool]
Gerry Cabalo Offline



Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 15381
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
If anyone wants to have a deeper understanding of what the communion service means, you may want to read "The Blood Covenant" by Trumbull. You probably would never want to miss a communion service ever again!

Gerry

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