"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1)



Nothing! Believing in a recent creation is in itself evidence that a person indeed does believe in the Bible. That is the whole point of keeping the Sabbath.

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." "It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed." (Exodus 20:11; 31:17)

This then supports my argument that those who cease to believe in the Bible are likely to cease to be creationists. Thus the correlation between not being Christian and not being creationist can be partly explained by evolutionism causing loss of faith in the Bible, but also by loss of faith in the Bible allowing evolutionism. It's a very simple point but one that some here seem unable or unwilling to grasp.

No, I think they understand it well (at least the members I'm reading).

The Seventh-day Adventist Church will continue to believe in a literal six-day creation a few thousand years ago to their detriment. That faith and science do not have to be incompatible is irrelevant to many, as long as they get to keep believing what they want to believe.

We're doing a disservice to our children (and thereby our church) by not arming them with the information they need to function in modern society.

Just because the church says the two are incompatible doesn't mean that they are. But if you say it often enough and long enough, and then someone finds out that it's not true...well, we all know how that can turn out.

Perhaps you could find a church that believes in evolution. It sounds like you would happier there.




regards,


oG

Oh, come on...that was rather lame....

And not a little ironic, given that the precise thing we're discussing is people being forced out of faith on the basis of their beliefs about origins.

And the irony is not lost on me.

As I've said somewhere, I'm not going anywhere. As long as I am in the church (and possibly even if I should ever leave), my mission is to tell people that one can be an Adventist Christian and believe that evolution is true. What I've experienced doesn't have to be everyone's experience.

You can shout me down as often as you like. I'm not going anywhere.

Amen

Praise God and good for you.

Not that I believe in evolution. But you are welcome.

The church believes in a literal six day creation week. If that belief forces people out of the church that is not the church's fault.

The church also believes homosexuality is a sin. If that forces people out of the church that is not the church's fault.

The church believes that alcoholism is a sin. If that forces people out of the church that is not the church's fault.

Different people have different stumbling blocks. For some people evolution is a stumbling block, for others its homosexuality and for yet others it is alcoholism. The church can engage these people and try to help them but changing church doctrine away from Sola Scriptura is not the solution.

Life on Earth being millions of years old is wholly incompatible with the Bible so long as we apply Sola Scriptura. So in order for the Adventist church to accept that teaching it would have to disregard the Sola Scriptura principle.

I would agree that those that lose faith in the Bible are by default going to believe in evolution, at least the type of evolution taught by Intelligent Design.