#200963 - 11/18/08 06:27 PM
Re: Mormons and Gays
[Re: Tom Wetmore]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
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...The dispute here is if the Biblical author was influenced by their society rather than inspired by God. It can't be both... Why not? I believe that the Biblical authors were all very much influenced by their society, environment, culture, language, fate, circumstances, heredity, family, mental physical and emotional limitations, experience, or lack thereof, - and were very much a product of all that. We all are.... Yes, we all are, of course. As far as the Bible's view of things is concerned, how do we separate the prophet's prejudices, say, against homosexuality, from God's view? Is it possible, even likely, in your judgment, that what we read in Leviticus and Romans about homosexuality is not God's view but the views of that culture and of the writers? Maybe the word of man and the word of God are so interrelated that we can't separate the two with any kind of certainty. Or can we? What do you think?
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#200964 - 11/18/08 06:52 PM
Re: Mormons and Gays
[Re: Tom Wetmore]
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Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 2253
Loc: CA
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...The dispute here is if the Biblical author was influenced by their society rather than inspired by God. It can't be both... Why not? I believe that the Biblical authors were all very much influenced by their society, environment, culture, language, fate, circumstances, heredity, family, mental physical and emotional limitations, experience, or lack thereof, - and were very much a product of all that. We all are. And despite all that, God still broke through to them in some way to motivate (inspire) them to include God in the picture and write it down. Some did so eloquently with great insight and wisdom(inspiration), others with great difficulty, unable to make complete sense of it, but were nonetheless used imperfectly by God (inspired) to accomplish His purposes. But they felt compelled (inspired) to seek after God and to write it down anyway and or to convey it to their own people. And people are still today inspired by God in very similar ways, with similar results. Tom Of course they were influenced by their enviornment but I don't think that negates the truth of God's word. It might change the wording..whether it was said in more "eloquent" or "blunt" manner but the message didn't change.
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#200999 - 11/19/08 01:34 AM
Re: Mormons and Gays
[Re: Shane]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10829
Loc: CA
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Martin Luther... Much of what he wrote was inspired but some portions were not because of his culture overshadowing the inspiration of God. I admire Luther very much and enjoy reading his works. The word "inspire" is used in different ways today. 2 Tim 3: 16 uses it to describe how the prophets wrote. I am wondering what you understand it to mean when used in reference to Martin Luther.
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#201000 - 11/19/08 01:35 AM
Re: Mormans and Gays
[Re: Redwood]
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Administrator of Foro Adventista
Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 17315
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
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Bravus you might find this interesting what Ellen White had to say ... "Those who feared God were to think for themselves. They were no longer to leave other men to do their thinking. Their minds were no longer to be chained down to erroneous maxims, theories, and doctrines. Ignorance and vice, crime and violence, oppression in high places, must be unveiled. The Light of life had come to this world to shine amid the moral darkness. The gospel would now be proclaimed among the poor, the oppressed. Those in humble life would be given opportunity to understand the real qualifications necessary for entrance into the kingdom of God." TDG 31 Ellen White is teaching that we should read the Word of God for ourselves, think about it, meditate on it and follow it without seeking someone else to tell us what it means. She is not teaching that we should rely on our own intellect apart for God's Word.
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#201009 - 11/19/08 02:18 AM
Re: Mormons and Gays
[Re: Shane]
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Husband and Father
Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 7433
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
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Do you believe all the Bible writers received their inspiration through visions and dreams?
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#201031 - 11/19/08 04:27 AM
Re: Mormons and Gays
[Re: Bravus]
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Administrator of Foro Adventista
Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 17315
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
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We know some of them were eye witnesses. We know that God spoke directly with many of them like Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Nathan, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Danial, Hosea, Isaiah, Joel, Amos, Jonah, Habakkuk, Nahum, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Matthew, Mark, John, Peter Jude and Paul. Luke may have been writing completely based on what others told him. I am not sure but David and Solomon may have also received indirect divine communication. But for the most part I believe the Bible teaches most of the writers were in direct contact with God.
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#201494 - 11/22/08 06:52 AM
Re: Mormons and Gays
[Re: Shane]
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Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 596
Loc: Kansas
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* genocide being commanded, extolled and rewarded God never commanded genocide. It's not about genetics; it's about judgment for wickedness. No one has ever been judged for their race. Individuals, families, and cities, repented, or fled, and where saved from the judgments of God, no matter what race they where. * lots and lots of stoning offenses Stoning would not have always been condemnation: Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die...
1 Cor. 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.But even in condemnation, it was a mercy, like any judgment. The more you sin, the more you have to suffer in the 2nd death. If the life of someone, who is permanently hardened, is cut short, they commit less sin, and suffer less than someone who is allowed to live and just spend his whole life sinning, and deceiving others into sin. Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:This also causes people to understand that sin = death. Now that people are not being stoned to death, false prophets run rampant, saying sin is not so bad. These guys are even allowed to develop a witty sense of humor, which weak minds heed, and are thus seduced. In the judgment these men will curse God for letting them live a full life, to heap upon themselves a lifetime's worth of multiplied wrath. They will envy those who where stoned to death, who's judgment is short.
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#201501 - 11/22/08 07:57 AM
Re: Mormons and Gays
[Re: rush4hire]
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Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 596
Loc: Kansas
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How can someone confess that in the 2nd resurrection God will create billions of people from the dust of the earth, instantly, and can't create one man from the dust of the earth, instantly? Those who believe in Evolution, usually believe in reincarnation, or some such thing. So the "Adventist Evolutionist", has a serious compatibility problem. Then after the judgment, the whole earth has been cleansed by fire. Obviously there's no life left on earth. It's as barren as Venus. Then God creates a new heaven and a new earth, while the saints watch. Do you not understand that the new heaven and new earth will be created instantly, like in six literal days, and not over billions of years? I've posed these questions a few times, and still no answer.
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