Recently, I was invited to attend a committee meeting about putting up a radio for our small town that is rather large for the south west Oregon.

I noted that these committee members have already worked the church, got into the attic and are doing some remodeling. They are going to put up a radio station, broadcasting with 3ABN radio [and they claim, video]....

.....I have listened to 3 ABN....I consider it one of the more conservative, with Amazing Facts even more on the conservative side, adventist entertainment industrys that we have...And mostly, it's lack luster stories and preaching is just plain hokey when trying to present to a world that is dying, a living message.

The problem with this radio station that this church has, is that it wants the gospel message sent out to the community.....The question that I present to them is who want to listen to 3 ABN? Only Adventists are more interested in 3ABN than non-Adventist.. Why are we wasting our hard earned dollars to present something that the world doesn't want to hear?

There are some amazing solo in the music field....but who wants to listen to Jamie George play violin? Who want to listen to Del Decker sing "Amazing Grace"? Sure, they do well....but they can not do well in the world today without Adventist dollars supporting them....Dollars that could be used to evangelize people in some other endevor....

Why do I want to give my expertise in building up a radio station that will entertain adventists rather than bring someone to the gospel.....?

Some very good and appropriate questions Neil. I am glad that you are working on this. I am not aware of a truly evangelistic SDA broadcast if that is what you are wanting. But among the ones we have ... I would suggest Hope over 3ABN. I have noticed that Hope is being much more progressive and timely in their programming. They are much more upbeat and modern. I think they would attract a non-SDA audience better. Not a whole lot better ... but I have much more 'hope' for them than 3ABN. Just a personal observation from one who watches SDA TV quite a bit.

Where ya been, Hoss? Been quiet without ya.

Now to your question, while I agree that SDA's are probably more likely to watch 3 ABN than non-SDA's, it is still important to have for all the SDA's that can't get to church for whatever reason. I think this is one of those situations where you can't throw the baby out with the bath water. Yes, there needs to be more outreach programs to bring in those non-SDA's, however, one can't ignore the SDA's that also need feeding.

After my conversion, I was searching actively for the truth.

God lead me directly to 3ABN. There's no other way to explain it.



We can't change anybody's heart. Only the Holy Spirit can. Our job is to provide the truth.

3ABN does that. I know first-hand.

BTW: I live in Las Vegas where there's a low-power station owned by 3ABN.


There's at least 15 people in my church with the same testimoney.

HEY NEIL

WELL our church in DICKSON TN about 50 miles
south west of NASHVILLE have the 3ABN radio station.
IT broadcast all over our country plus some cites in
the surrounding 4 borders. our church would be consider
medium side we have 125 members on the books. we have any
where from 50 to 70 that attend each sabbath.
we have had this radio station for about 4 years now.
and there has been several non Adventist that have contacted
our church because of the radio station. our church aslo
has a church school and there have been a few non Adventist
students that have enrolled in the school because of the
radio station.

now with all this said if your Church choose 3ABN OR the
HOPE channel I THINK IT would be worth it
CHRIST said he would die to save just one soul

any way this is my 2 cents worth

I HOPE the right choice is made....


dgrimm60

I think it will depend on what type of audience you are trying to reach,ie, TN, Ga, and the southern states would more likely listen to ABN because of the traditional conservative attitudes of that part of the country. If the area you are in is more towards the question and show me type of mindset, well that might not work. Each audience need a different approach.

I agree with you, let the preacher preach to the choir, but use the hard earned dollars for an outreach to the community. There are other ways than a radio station, but then, that usually means some type of shoe leather, hands on, personal involvement in the community. Walk the talk, so to speak!

Obviously you haven't heard or seen the results of decisions made for Christ with baptism as a direct result of those "hokey" programs. Paul was put to death by the unbelievers of his "hokey" preaching in areas far beyond the borders of the Jewish influence, but he continued preaching in the power of the Spirit, not to mention that numbers yielding to the message of salvation through the blood of Jesus doesn't necessarily equate to "the wrong message being preached".

BTW, 3ABN is broadcasting to 80% of the world's population now and many of the people who are listening and responding, live on dirt floors, barely making enough to keep body and soul together.

"And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: ‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,And seeing you will see and not perceive;" Matthew 13:14 NKJV

"Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—" Revelation 3:17 NKJV

"Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:14 NKJV
Regards!

I am not talking about hokey in the sense that a good gospel message is being brought out. I am talking about POOR messages that are brought out and tauted as being a 'good message'.

In case you are wondering, I have seen a living message given to the people. I have seen the gospel thru song, contempory music, unify the various churches and bring people of the community together.

I have seen KTSY, in Boise Idaho, go from a $70K/year donation FROM THE COMMUNITY, to $300K per year. And on most years, it makes it goal. It has an 85% pledge/real money realized. Most pledges, like NPR, average 15%-35% pledge/real money realized. [In case you are wondering, your government passed laws saying that if you pledge an amount, you are committed to fulfilling that pledge unless you can show why you will not do that, ie you found out that they are not the organization you thought they were and support ideals opposed to yours.] That radio station rivals any other country/rock/jass station in the treasure valley. In fact, it's is rated as THE MOST LISTEN TO STATION in the area. Why? because, imo, it preaches gospel thru contemporay music....It promotes itself as a 'family' station. It brings in concerts of popular CHRISTIAN music stars. Stars, whose primary goal, is to glorify Christ, by talking/singing about God's love for each member of the family ect. There is no swearing or "veggie" swearing....It is always upbeat, and never negative.


...I am talking about 3ABN, whose conservative ways stifles the imagination, reaffirms SDA dogma, and to be quite honest, makes more converts more of a problem than what they are worth.

The only evangelistic program worse than 3ABN is Amazing Facts, whose founder was even more conservative. Luckily, they have done some tempering of thier message, so as to not embarrassed the SDA church further.




Yeah, people are listening....but only certain types are listening and responding...If 3ABN would change it's format from Jim Baker/Tammy Faye format and create it's own TV program, if it would preach a forgiveness gospel that actually showed forgiveness, then it would truely be great...As it is, it will always be dependent upon the Joel Osborn, Benny Hinn, Jimmy Swaggart to show them the way.

So why don't you start your own TV station and show them how to really tell the message the way God would have it done. I would say that more non SDA's watch 3ABN than SDA's. But than it seems to me that God would never be blessing 3 ABN or AF, It Is Written, etc if they were that weak. Like someone else has mentioned the many testimony's of non sda's is rather large. I for one an not at all a conservative adventist but rather a liberal and/or rebel and I find 3abn to have something for all different kinds of people. My 2 cents worth.

pk

Where are you gettting your messages that says that these guys are bringing people in to the church?

By the way you are speaking, there should be a few people comeing to your church who are new EVERY WEEK....Is that true?

Are they doing it such that there are NEW people every week who want to study at YOUR CHURCH?

If you answer in the negitive, I have to ask 'Why is that not the case?" If you are going to tell me that they are bringing people into the church from distant countrys, you are comparing apples to oranges....WHERE ARE THE NON-SDA PEOPLE IN YOUR CHURCH FROM 3ABN???

Look, I am not saying that there are not people coming in. I am saying that there are not the constant few that are coming to YOUR church...nor MY church on a weekly basis...

And as for the crack about starting my own TV station, I wasn't talking about TV. I was talking about consulting with the local SDA church, piping in 3ABN audio to "preach the message". AND IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, that is NOT sucessful radio....Successful SDA radio station IS KTSY. Anything else is nothing more than easing the SDA consciouse and pandering to SDA culture.

And as I understnd the gospel message, it is not bring EGW, nor SDA culture to the world.

We need to be able to communicate the Three Angels Messages to the modern, contemporary world but without changing the Messages. God raised up the Seventh-day Adventist church in order to proclaim those 3 messages to the world. So we have to expect that the content of an SDA station is going to be a lot different from other Christian radio and TV stations. The Three Angels Messages include the everlasting gospel, but it is in the context of the Pre-Advent Judgment, the unchanging law of God, the Sabbath, the claims of false religion, the mark of the beast, and the soon coming of Jesus.

How would you like to see these messages communicated on the radio and TV stations in your area?

There is a before and after. The before is Gods love for mankind and his redemption of them through Christ. The after is those particular belief systems unique to our church. The mixing of the two during 'evangelism' is what keeps people away from a real association with Christ. The second part should be a slow process after a person has come to trust in God.

By using a medium that understands the message in a far simplier way than what you just explained it, John...

While I don't have an answer, I do believe you might find that answer in John 3:16....

of course, everyone can recite the words....but there are only two real questions that need answering....do you really understand them? If so, do they reflect in what you do?

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life

Yes, you recite them well, John....but now comes the two questions....do you understand them for you, and does your action reflect that understanding?

Yes, of course.

What I am asking you is how would you communicate those same messages to non-SDA?

John 3: 16 is central but people can misunderstand what it means to say that God loves them. Have you ever talked to people who thought it means they can do whatever they want without consequences? It depends on the idea they have about "love." Some picture in their minds eye a grandfatherly figure who will never call them into judgment or destroy the wicked.

Some people forget the phrase, "whosoever believes in Him." Others forget the part about "perishing" if we don't believe in Him.

So while John 3: 16 is a central text, it needs to be seen in the context of the plan of salvation.

I just don't get this mantra that people think they can do whatever they want. Of all the Christians I have met in many different communities ... I have never met a Christian that felt he was free to go out and do as he pleased.

I think if Christians actually felt this that there would be many more murders.

This old mantra must be unique to ultra conservative Adventists. I just don't see it in my community.

NEVER! A red herring!!! Even an agnostic knows and believes there is consequences to wrong decisions. It is about time that such an atrocious reading of the Bible stops! Lets stop with this belittling of what Christ did by his death. I find the very idea of SDA Christians continuously trying to take away the supreme beauty of the text....well it angers me!! It is not up to me, you or anyone else to question the basic simpleness of that text and the hope, yes the assurance, it brings to mankind!

Get behind me!!

Some people just love them there 'Hell fire and brimstone' sermons. Neil. Perhaps that could be the theme of your radio broadcasts ....

The 'should not perish' is good news. Let's not pervert it.

KTSY is a SDA contemporary Christian music station. You can listen at this address-

http://208.106.212.19/listen/player.asp?station=ktsy-fm&

KTSY is a living SDA radio station that has united the Christian community with the gospel thru contemporary Christian music. If you are aware of KLUV, you might have an idea what KTSY is able to do. No politics, eco friendly, family orientated, the "good news that God truely does love YOU", broadcasted out to community.

What it does NOT broadcast-

the seven-day is the Sabbath,
2300 day prophecy
Revelation seminars
EGW is God's messenger for the last days


So, John, does that disturb you? 24/7/365 it broadcasts something that the Treasure Valley needs to hear....God loves you....No matter what you have done, God has forgiven you. Truely forgiven you. Then the question is reverberating- What are you going to do now that you are forgiven?

Individual miracles happen over there in that large valley. Miracles that don't make it to the news, but make it to the underground networks, the homeschool networks...Churches are changing...even Adventist churches are being forced to change or they become more pharisical.....KTSY is continueingly being asked "Where is a good church to go to?"....They can not send people to the Adventist church because the Adventist church is too much into law....

And that is the way this church is that I am at, John....The board, when I asked what they want, are really not sure, except to say that 'our message needs to get out into the community".....Tell me, John....can a SDA church understand forgiveness?




Classic...YOu don't understand the human condition either.....When was the last time you listened to a therapist? OVERWHELMINGLY, the need for forgiveness is paramount in a human's life. While you are worried about how God is going to be percieved, you allow someone to perish in his guilt. You can not teach about God when you are overwhelmed with guilt.

John, you quote the bible all the time.
How can you be soooooooooooo blind to this, John????




Is God more interested in how He is percieved or worried about how people are perishing under guilt? Jesus had some great thoughts about ministering to peoples guilt alll the while not telling them about what God was like....the ministry was in forgiveness, mercy ....people got the glimpse of Who God truely is....

I talk to people all the time who don't think there will be consequences to sinning. If you witness for Christ on the street or from door to door, or in the parks, etc., you often talk to people who don't believe they will be held accountable for their sins. Many people think God is too kind to hold them responsible for sinning. Others don't believe the Bible means what it says when it teaches that Satan and his followers will be destroyed.

It is not taking away the beauty of John 3: 16 to talk about consequences to rejecting Christ. The verse itself says that the only way to salvation is by putting one's faith in Christ. Otherwise, apart from Christ, people perish. That is part of the Bible's message. But we know that God's enemy would like people not to consider this.

Ellen White wrote:

Personally I don't think we need to divorce the distinctive teachings of the SDA church from God's incredible love and forgiveness. I don't think it is an either/or situation. I think we desperately need both. Our message is nothing to be ashamed of. Rightly presented and understood it shows God's love and his watch care, his forgiveness and the incredible lengths he is willing to go to save each human being. It would bother me if a station just preached on things like prophecy or just had no teachings on the blessings of the Sabbath and other incredible truths.

I have given many Bible studies both in person and online in my life. Interestingly the topic that got the most positive response was the topic on death. People are so angry at God for "taking away their relatives". When they understood the truth on this they again found a God to love.

I have also found many who, when presented the Sabbath said that they were now far less stressed as they were experiencing God's rest on his day.

Why keep our blesings to ourselves? Just because some SDA's don't get jazzed over the state of the dead or are counting the hours till sundown on Sabbath, doesn't mean that others don't find an incredible blessing in the Bible teachings.

The doctrines, rightly understood present a very long God.

We also need to have programming that focuses on the family and how to resolve conflict, heal past hurts, and be a blessing to others.

Thank you Neil ... for all that you have said. I do appreciate it very much.

I used to listen to KLUV . What a great blessing for a community. And they were very gracious to have us from the Seventh day Adventist Church get free access to their radio with announcements. I contacted them many times to have free advertizing about our Evangelistic Meetings and outreach programs that we had coming up. They were always kind and helpful.

There is an order of things though I feel. And the obey or die ... is not the first step.

Yes I agree, but at times I think that sometimes we are afraid to share the blessings of our distinctive SDA doctrines....just because some of us had a bad experience with legalism or something growing up. What might have a "lingering bade taste in our mouth" is such a blessing to others. We need to move on, and realize what a priviledge is ours to understand the gospel as we do, and to share it with others while being appropriate, tactful, and yes "in order". However, with a radio station it is hard to be "in order" as new people are tuning in all the time while others are tuning out.

I think we need to present God's incredible love. God wants us saved worse than we want to be saved. That is a picture of God that hasn't always been presented but is so needed.

I suspect that you are not hearing them, John...I listen to people on the street a lot. I hear them...and listen to them. It's hard to know what to say in the hope of changing thier thinking.
...They know there are consequences....but this thread is not about talking to people on the street...it is about a radio ministry and the type of broadcasting that needs to go out to the people....





I would submit that it would be. That is why KTSY does not talk about consequences...but allows the music to talk about grace, mercy, and forgiveness. even your EGW quote talks much more about grace and mercy and forgiveness....

Ellen White wrote:

It's just from my priviledged viewpoint of seeing so many people baptized..the joy on their faces...when they understood God's message for this end time...through the reality of his deep love for us...is just an incredible thing to see! And yes I consider it a priviledge simply because there is NO greater joy than to see those beaming faces coming out of the water of baptism. I can only imagine what the angels will feel like when we all finally get home. If there were "night" in heaven...and "sleep" I am sure the angels couldn't sleep a wink from the momenty they are told when Jesus is coming, till the moment they can hug each one of us and welcome us home.

The problem, Taylor, is that we emphasis not love, grace, forgiveness, and mercy. We emphasis love and law. We know the beauty of the message, but we don't know how to present it to a world that will accept it whole heartedly....and yet they have hear glimpses of it...some they have rejected due to the plainess of the message, some just don't make sense...

The honest truth is that our distinctive doctrine is pretty boring for those who are not grounded in our doctrines. It has made us pretty uncreative, boring our own selves. Jesus says that if the truth will set us free, then how come we are still grounded by chains of dreariness in presenting this beautify doctrine? I submit that an order in the presenting of the gospel is necessary. It is the radio's prerogative to present forgiveness, mercy, and grace and love to a non-adventist world.

Typically .... I have not noticed Adventists in media afraid to share our doctrines. Which ones did you have in mind?

No.



God's love is unconditional. God showed in the death of Christ that He is not angry at us and that He wants us to come to Him for forgiveness in order to be put in right relationship with Him.

In Christ, God has forgiven the whole world. But unless a person responds positively to the gospel message, and repents, there is no forgiveness or salvation. In other words, if I hear the gospel, but disbelieve it and continue my sinful ways, there is no forgiveness. God justifies and forgives only when we personally accept God's gift, repent of our sins and turn in faith to Jesus Christ, placing all of our confidence in Him. All of the preaching of Peter and Paul in the book of Acts shows this.



Great question. That is what Paul asked in Romans 6: 1, 15.



Of course. The news outlets are seldom interested in those kinds of stories. But I am glad this radio station you speak of is telling about them. Maybe you could share some of those with us here.



Do these people you're talking about know about the Sabbath?

It depends on what you mean by "too much into law." Some people think that any mention of God's law is too much.

In your opinion, is Steps To Christ "too much into law"? I believe that book shows the true and right relationship between the law and the gospel. I'm sure you're familiar with it. What do you think of it? Do you ever give it to people to read?

God raised up the SDA church for the purpose of lifting up God's downtrodden law. How do we lift it up? What does that mean? How does the radio station do it, if at all?



Of course. Don't you think so? The church I know does.






I've worked many years as a counselor with juvenile delinquents along with a team of therapists. As a gay person struggling with my homosexuality, I went to several therapists and psychologists.

I've also worked before with pastors and evangelists in people's homes, praying with them, presenting the gospel, and have always had good responses.

I know about the need for forgiveness. You are right, no question about it.

It depends on each individual case. Some people already are overwhelmed with guilt. Others don't think they are guilty at all. I sometimes talk to people who say they are not a sinner.

That is also the case in the NT. Jesus dealt differently with those who believed they were not a sinner than with those realized they were.

Perhaps you misunderstood me.










How people view God is very much related to forgiveness and love, wouldn't you agree? If we view Him as loving, thoughtful, kind and forgiving, we are more likely to copy Him and be the same towards others. At the same time, we will experience His forgiveness in our own lives. That is hard to do if we have the wrong idea of God, see Him as unforgiving, harsh, and severe. We will be kind to people even when they are not kind to us, because that is how God is.

Neil D. gave this one. Sounds like they may not share many our doctrines, for whatever reason--

I agree completely.

Do all the people you listen to on the street cause you to believe they all know that there is a judgment and they will have to answer for their sins?

There are lots people who don't believe there are consequences in this world for what they do, let alone in the next world. Part of my job at work is teaching young people this lesson. There are many who don't understand there are consequences. That is one reason a lot of people get into trouble, because they think they can get away with terrible crimes. Some do get away with them, as far as society is concerned, but they will have to face God's judgment eventually. Surely you have talked to people who don't believe in a judgment.



If you talk to enough people on the streets of American cities, you can get a pretty good idea of what those people are thinking and how they think. All of that is necessary for knowing what needs to go out to the people over the radio waves and on TV broadcasting.