But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat. You must not eat the blood; pour it out on the ground like water. Deuteronomy 12:23,24

I saw this and thinking about the recent discussions here about meat-eating and the blood, thought to include this. This information is from a non-Adventist source- Gail

This topic has been subject to much speculation- the reason why God forbade the israelites from eating (or drinking) the blood of animals. It is also possible that it is a combination of several reasons.

It was a custom in many pagan lands to drink the blood of sacrificed animals, and even the blood of sacrificed humans. In this sense the command might have been given to separate God's people from the cruel and idolatrous customs around them.

Since we know today that most diseases are contained in the blood and transmitted by it throughout the body, the command may well have had to do with the health of the Israelites. It prevented the transmission of any diseases the animal might carry to humans. For instance some ground meats need to be cooked thoroughly to prevent transmission of some diseases.

We also know that the blood carries with it all the essential elements needed to sustain life. There is no other liquid that can perform its functions. So indeed, the life IS in the blood. It was for this reason that pagans drank the blood of their victims. They believed that by doing so they would receive the strength and power that their victims had. The Israelites were instructed not to do the same. Although they sacrificed the animal, they must always remember that life was from God and was considered sacred. They were not to eat the blood as if it were common food.

It was also possible that they were not to eat blood because the shedding of blood was an act of atonement and represented the shedding of Jesus' blood on Calvary for the remission of sins. Thus, the eating of blood was considered to profane or make common the sacred act by which man comes to God.

The blood of sacrifice was to be carried to the altar to be disposed of quietly by the officiating priests. It was to be poured into the earth (Gen. 9:4,5; Lev. 17:10-14; Acts 15:20; Heb. 9:22)

Some believe that this prohibition was only ceremonial and temporary, while others regard it as still binding on all. Some rabbis say that the rule came as a result of the ancient custom of eating raw flesh which still reeked with warm blood.

After the battle of Gilboa, both the meat and the blood of animals were eaten by the Israelites. The blood eating was considered a sin which required sacrifice for atonement (1 Sam.14:31-35)

I guess if you are vegetarian there is no problem!

This prohibition was repeated in the New Testament, (Acts 15:10) so it could easily be argued that it is still binding.

As this text is often quoted by those who decline blood transfusions, I find it inconsistent that those people do not also insist on kosher meat. I think it is fairly obvious that the primary
application of this text would have to be to animals, as blood transfusion was not practised when the instruction was issued.

HEY ALL

THIS is a good article and very interesting.
I have heard that when animals (I guess birds
also) are taken to be killed that the fear in
these animals is increased and that the adrenalin
in their bodies increases so there is a rush
of blood in their bodies....
so the people that eat these animals and birds
get more of the poisons in these animals
bodies...

yes and vegetarians would not have a problem

dgrimm60

Quote:

I find it inconsistent that those people do not also insist on kosher meat.

Hi, Nan, well, I asked them! The answer -- "that is not blood, it is juice"!!! Amazing what they will do with the truth to satisfy their perverted taste buds! They are quite happy with the truth that what is in the veins is blood -- but apparently when it gets to the capillaries it is juice!!

I would be interested to find out if anyone else has asked the same question and received the same answer.

I believe that the reason God claimed the blood and the fat as His was to remove it from their diet.

Beryl

The blood definitely had its spiritual meaning, but God also had the dietary in mind. If you look at all the rules and stuff that he had them do you can see the disease that would have been wide spread if they did not obey. I remember when living in NY we went to church down in manhattan. There was this factory where they killed the pigs. You could hear them going crazy as they were being butchered. I also remember reading somewhere how killing animals in this way aggitates them. Thats why God had them kill the animals with one quick slice at the neck. So that there was no suffering. Because as you can see killing the animal in the slaughter houses causes the blood to get riled up. That's why God told the Jews to not eat the blood. And also they were not to eat the fat, which had nothing to do with sacrificing but had to do with eating, as we well know today. And don't forget the Israelites were to be an example to the nations around them. I guess in one sense this was a health message.

pk

Quote:

I guess in one sense this was a health message.

Yes, pk, I truly believe that it was. And the real Jews still stick to that. At one stage, while I was working for the Sanitarium Nutrition Service as the local Co-ordinator here in Perth, I was asked by a group of Jewish ladies to come and show them how to make some vegetarian dishes.

Among the recipes that were demonstrated was "Gluten Steaks". That recipe was received with joy -- because it was the texture of the kosher meat -- but it wasn't meat. I also introduced them to a product that had just come onto the market -- Sanitarium So Good -- a soy milk. Jews will not have meat and milk at the same meal, but here was a milk that was not from animals!

When I eventually departed, I left the ladies excitedly planning a meal together -- without telling the men what was in it! "meat" that wasn't meat, served at the same meal as dishes containing "milk" that wasn't milk!

We talked about their various food rules, and, yes, God was caring for their health right back there, of that there is no doubt.

Beryl

Good points I agree with you on this!

That is correct, there have been other studies on other meats pork included along with some clean meats. That clearly shows that when the animals are killed in a violent way it gets there fear and adrinlin flowing and kidney and the live organs give off there waste and with the urine contaminate the blood of the animals. And urine and the blood gives meat the flavor. And so what are they eating when eating the blood with it? The life juices, with organisims, blood,bacteria, waste,urine etc.

Amen I agree with you!

Thank you all for your input!

I have a question- If God asked this of you for no other reason than He said it, would you obey? IOW, if there was no apparent health benefit, would you still obey the commandment if it made no other common sense to you?

Thoughts?

HEY GAIL

THIS is a good question????
BUT GOD told ADAM AND EVE not to eat of the tree
of good and evil and apparently there was fruit on
this tree just as I AM sure there was fruit on the
tree of life....

so that was an obedience question just like
the question of do not eat the blood and fat

if GOD SAYS NO OR DON'T we should not do it

just thinking here

dgrimm60

yes, I would obey God

Eating meat isn't that important to me, but other people's rights ARE important to me, so if others still wanted to eat meat, that's up to them.

The test in the Garden of Eden really had nothing to do with the eating or not eating of the fruit of the tree. It had everything to do whether they chose to obey God or not.The tree was just the vehicle for the test..............just as the Sabbath is for us today..................

HEY GLADUSSEE

if you would have noticed I DID say it was an obedience
issue......


dgrimm60

Good point, Pam. God gives us the freedom to choose. Why then should we push our agenda upon others?

HEY GAIL

THAT is when asked why I do not eat any flesh food
or that I am a vegetarian my answer is I DO it for
biblical reasons as well as health reasons.....

dgrimm60

That is correct, there have been other studies on other meats pork included along with some clean meats. That clearly shows that when the animals are killed in a violent way it gets there fear and adrinlin flowing and kidney and the live organs give off there waste and with the urine contaminate the blood of the animals. And urine and the blood gives meat the flavor. And so what are they eating when eating the blood with it? The life juices, with organisims, blood,bacteria, waste,urine etc. [/quote]

Just a few thoughts and questions regarding the above statement.

First, can you please provide links for the mentioned studies.

My understanding of the urinary system is that it's entirely seperate from the blood. Blood goes thru the kidneys, and urine is excreted into the ureters, headed to the bladder, where it waits to be excreted via the urethera. The urinary system does not come into contact with the vascular system, so it can't mix with the blood. I am also unaware of any way for waste to move back from the kidneys back into the vascular system.

In a living organism with no UTI or kidney infection, urine is sterile. Ninety-six percent of it is water and four percent of it is waste such as urea and salts. Your urine is basically yellow in color because of bile pigments. Bile is produced by the liver to help in digestion. When it is done doing its job, the bile is broken down and that's where the pigments come from.

I'm wondering why someone would think that there's bacteria in the blood and urine of a healthy living being?

I'm wondering why someone would think that urine gets into the blood stream?

I'm wonering why someone would think that there's a non-violent way to kill an animal?

I'm wondering why someone would think all this makes meat taste better? If that line of reasoning is used, then I would think that slaughter houses would purposely chase, beat, and scare animals to death, instead of using a quick, one time shot to the head to kill the animals? In commerecial slaughter houses, animals are lined up, and hered into gates and corrals, not to be abused and scared, but simply for effeciancy reasons. When you are in the business of killing, gutting, and processing thousands of animals per day, you have to have an effeciant system, thus the herding and lining up of said creatures.

I'm not trying to advocate anything here, other than factual education.

Do we have any dialysis nurses, or nephrologists on this site that can give a little lecture on how the urianry system works? I think then maybe we can have a better understanding.

Please respond with your ideas, thoughts, and links to fact based knowledge or studies with links given.

Thanks.

This is interesting!

I think it is clearly Biblical (both OT & NT) that we are not to eat meat with blood in it. Practically speaking that means kosher meat for those wanting to eat meat. Most areas have a least one supermarket that carries kosher meat.

That's a great point. There was nothing different about the fruit of that tree, and in the same way there is nothing different about the 24 hour period of the seventh day. God could have chosen any other day for the Sabbath. The only thing that is different about it is that God said to rest on it. It isn't based on reason or on anything in the natural world. It's strictly based on God's commandment.

Bruno, I read about this study done years ago with an Adventist Doctor and a business owner of a meat factory. I do not remember where or the reference it was years ago when I first gave up meat eating. The animals that are killed in a violent way they said by hunting like a deer, being chased wounder suffering and then killed, their meat would contain the adrinlian and bacteria etc. The same with animals treated badly, stress in groups together, forced to go this way and that way and preparing to kill them gets them to exited and nervous and then the meat or flesh is affected.

Are you talking about a humans anatomy or a animals? If an animal I think you are wrong about that. Anyway, I am not a doctor and can only paraphrase what I read about it. I am sure you can do your own research on the web to find out for sure. If you do, get back to us about it.

The urinary system of animals and humans are increadibly similar.

Ok, here's the first part of my research for you to review. Please also check with your local vet, or an anatomy and physiology text book on animals to assure yourself of these things.


http://yarchive.net/food/game_flavor.html

"Commercially slaughtered animals are bled out to minimize spoilage.

Commercially slaughtered animals are bled out mainly to kill them and to
improve the flavor of the meat.

> Blood being well oxigenated and loaded with nutrients, it is the first
> product to spoil.

"Blood is not always "well oxygenated." and within a few seconds after
death, there is no oxygen in it at all. That's the reason the animal
dies, in fact: cellular-level anoxia. Furthermore, post-mortem artifacts
in the form of tissue breakdown begin in almost all cell types within
minutes of death. Certainly they are detectable in muscle fibers at the
sub-microscopic level within 10 minutes...and in that time, the oxygen
carrying cells of the blood are still intact. Anyone who doubts this is
welcome to come to my lab; we will nuke a mouse and I'll prepare it for
the electron microscope, and show you the intact, un-lysed blood cells in
the vessels; and the hyper-contracted muscle cells with swollen
mitochondria (the first sign of degeneration) if we leave the poor beast
out at room temperature for, oh, 10 minutes or so."

More from the same author

"> I believe the root cause of "Gaminess" is adrenaline. Animals that have
> been harried/pursued/terrified just before being killed are usually much
> more "Gamy" than those who were placidly feeding before being "Dropped in
> their tracks".

This makes intutitve sense but it's probably not correct. If anything
causes the flavor of a scared animal to be different it's not adrenaline,
it's lactic acid built up in the muscles during exercise and not removed
by later reversion to an aerobic (oxygen using) mode of respiration.
Furthermore, the total quantity of adrenaline present is minute;
certainly on the order of micrograms, if not nanograms, in the entire
body of the deer. It's highly unlikely anyone would taste such quantites
of adrenalin that's distributed through 40 kg of meat--not to mention all
the other stuff that is discarded."

and from this author,

"> Think back to your last good fright/near miss situation, after the weak
> knees/shakes/pounding heart/dry mouth sensations faded, remember that
> metallic taste left in your mouth? Like a mouthful of copper pennies?
> That was leftover adrenaline and adrenal by-products.

Oh, my....no, sir, it was not. The effects you describe are certainly
those of a good scare, but you certainly don't taste adrenaline. It's
circulating in the blood until it's bound by the cells at the receptor
sites. The odd taste in your mouth is the result of the activities of
various exocrine salivary glands--mostly their being shut down. It
certainly isn't the taste of adrenaline!"

Please note that pigs are so similar in anatomy compared to humans that heart valves are removed from pigs and placed into humans on a daily basis in hospitals across america.

Please also note that in 1984, Dr.'s at Loma Linda hospital transplanted a baboon heart into a 2 week old girl. Why, because the anatomy and physiology is so increadibly similar.

http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/RD9940643.htm

Transgenic livestock as genetic models of human disease

RM Petters

Abstract

Genetic models of human disease can lead to new insights concerning disease aetiology or suggest novel therapeutic interventions. Livestock species, especially pigs, cows, sheep and horses, are often good animal models of human disease.

There are many things done to animals on commerical farms to change the flavor of the meat, however, "stressing, going this way and that" aren't one of them.

The commerical meat industry is a multi-billion dollar industry. If there was some validity to the statement that "running them around" made them taste better, then you can bet your bottom dollar that all those cows and pigs would be on hamster wheels.

The reality is that cows headed for slaughter are corn fed and penned up before slaugther, to fatten them up (this gives a better texture and better flavor). Please head over to your nearest cattle farmer and see for yourself.

If adrenaline has such good flavor, why can't I find the "adrenaline" sprinkler next to my salt shaker at the local steak house?

I ask again, what bacteria?

If an animal has bacteria in their blood stream, they are then "septic", and probably won't "make the cut" (LOL), when going to "the big house", LOL.

What does "bacteria" taste like? Should I find it next to the adrenaline shaker?

I would encourage anyone with any vet experiance to respond on the A&P of animals (especially animals for consumption) compared to human anatomy.

Thanks for this opportunity to clear things up, and keep thinking!

Bruno, the following also came from that weblink you provided and it confirms some of what I said in my post.

"Now let me ask you this; ever been to a slaughter plant? Ever seen cattle or sheep milling around in the pens, witing for their turn, and with blood all over the killing floor? Do you think they aren't excited? Do you think they aren't under fear stress? Do you think they aren't "pumping themselves full of adrenaline" as you put it? I guarantee you those beasts, dumb as they are, know perfectly well what's going on, and they are frantic to get out. Put 200 sheep in a pen, squeeze them through a chute and whack them on the head, and see how excited the last 180 or so are when they come into the chute, because even a sheep can figure it out if he has enough time. Ditto for cattle."

..."The same is true for other animals. Deer taste of what they eat; and the components of their diet and the residues they leave behind in the tissues are far, far, more important determinants of meat quality and flavor than adrenaline and its metabolites. Try this: shoot a deer after
a hard winter when it's been eating bark, and tell me what it tastes like, compared to one that's been chowing down on an Ohio cornfield.

I do recall too that it was the pork,the pig that had a different biological reaction with the urine, waste, bacteria going into the blood when it is killed, but I think it was not the only animal tested that had the same problem.

When I google "urnie in blood", I get nothing. I get all kinds of things about blood in the urine, totally and completely different thing.

I tried "urine in blood at slaughter", nothing.

Urine can not get into the blood stream, it's a one way system. The pressure in the vascular system passes blood into the kidney. This is a filtration process, with water and urea being filtered out, and passed into the ureters, which is a set of tubes that leads to the bladder. There's no mechanism, not in humans, nor in farmed animals for food, for the urine to make a trip backwards. Please find me one single credible source for this, and I'll gladly drop the whole thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteremia

"Bacteremia (Bacteræmia in British English) is the presence of bacteria in the blood. The blood is normally a sterile environment, so the detection of bacteria in the blood (most commonly with blood cultures) is always abnormal.

Bacteria can enter the bloodstream as a severe complication of infections (like pneumonia or meningitis), during surgery (especially when involving mucous membranes such as the gastrointestinal tract), or due to catheters and other foreign bodies entering the arteries or veins (including intravenous drug abuse)."


If by bacteria, you mean, well, no, there's just no bacteria in the blood system (vascular). If you have bacteria, then you are septic, which quickly leads to death. If however, during the processing part, they were to cut open the intestinal parts, and then allow that material to mix with the meat, you would be right. But that's not what you are implying, right?

I asked a dialysis nurse and an ICU nurse of many years who runs CVVH (continous veno-venous hemofiltration), and both affirmed that urine can not, under any circumstance (short of cutting into the urinary system and mixing it with other cut meat) move backward.

I say again, some type of credible fact sure would be nice for something so important. And yes, even if you don't eat meat, it's important to fully understand exactly how the system works if you are going to be making statements about it. Otherwise, you are spreading fiction, not fact, and that never helps anything.

I just can't seem to find a single piece of evidence to support your statment.

Bruno, I found this interesting blog article by an SDA on the subject of parasites, bacteria, toxins etc. found in some meat-pork. You can check out the blog by clicking on the following link, if it does not work try copying and pasting it.

No Meat Petition Sign Up http://nomeatpetitionsignup.ning.com/profiles/blogs/a-pigs-tale

The other thing that want to mention is even if there is not the same types or kinds of parasites, bacteria, toxins etc. not found in the blood of all the clean meats. God still does forbid the eating of the blood and fat of animals.

blessings, messenger

And not for spiritual reasons only but for Health reasons.

pk

Messenger,

I can't believe I am even responding to your post, however, here we go.

I do sincerely wish you the best in life. I feel certain that you actually care and want to make the world a better place. However, I'm not certain you have the mental capacity to carry on an intelligent discussion on anything. You have provided absolutely no credible evidence for urine in the blood or meat of an animal for consumption. You have not provided one shred of evidence for bacteria being present in meat for consumption.

What you have done is danced around the direct questions I asked. You have also given a link to a page that never even uses the word urine. This sad excuse for a story does talk about the "parasite" trichinosis, which is not and never will be bacteria. I won't even begin to go into what makes them different as I'm certain you wouldn't have the faintest clue of what I'm talking about.

Your ascertation that urine and bacteria get into the meat of an animal when slaughtered is so outlandish and off based that all I can do is bid you good bye.

Look it Bruno, I have not made any personal insults or attacks on you. I thought we were having a discussion. I never claimed to be an authority on the health issues of biology and anatomy of animals, or anything related to it and told you that I was only paraphrasing what I heard about the blood and the urine etc.

And clearly you are in the health fields and have a knowledge of the chemical and biological workings of humans and maybe some animals. But clearly what you do not have is a kind Christian spirit, or attitude. And this name calling and insults are typical of what I run into in this site. A lot of members with an education and experiences in the science's but no practical Christin experience or maturity in the things of God. I am glad to have more of the later. And your name calling insults etc. show me that you are ignorant in spiritual experience and for that I am sad for you. Because although you have knowledge in the medical science's that and your bold arrogance will not help save you for the kingdom. Try seeking God's ways first in allowing Him and representing Him, He can transfer your rudeness and abusive words and conduct into something more beautiful that all your medical knowledge can never do. That is my prayer for you!

Inspiration agrees with me about the disease in the blood of the animals etc. Or rather I agree with inspiration.

Those who subsist largely upon meat, cannot avoid sometimes eating flesh which is more or less diseased. In many cases the process of fitting animals for market produces an unhealthy condition. Shut away from light and pure air, inhaling the atmosphere of filthy stables, the entire body soon becomes contaminated with foul matter; and when such flesh is received into the
48
human body, it corrupts the blood, and disease is produced. If the person already has impure blood, this unhealthful condition will be greatly aggravated. But few can be made to believe that it is the meat they have eaten which has poisoned their blood and caused their suffering. Many die of diseases wholly due to meat-eating, when the real cause is scarcely suspected by themselves or others. Some do not immediately feel its effects, but this is no evidence that it does not hurt them. It may be doing its work surely upon the system, yet for the time being the victim may realize nothing of it. {CTBH 47.3}
Pork, although one of the most common articles of diet, is one of the most injurious. God did not prohibit the Hebrews from eating swine's flesh merely to show his authority, but because it is not a proper article of food for man. God never created the swine to be eaten under any circumstances. It is impossible for the flesh of any living creature to be healthful when filth is its natural element, and when it feeds upon every detestable thing. {CTBH 48.1}


Animal Fat and Blood

(1868) 2T 61
696. As a family, you are far from being free from disease. You have used the fat of animal which God in His word expressly forbids: "It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood." "Moreover, ye shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings. Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people." {CD 393.3}

Letter 102, 1896
697. The meat is served reeking with fat, because it suits the perverted taste. Both the blood and the fat of animals are consumed as a luxury. But the Lord gave special directions that these should not be eaten. Why? Because their use would make a diseased current of blood in the human
394
system. The disregard for the Lord's special directions has brought a variety of difficulties and diseases upon human beings. . . . If they introduce into their systems that which cannot make good flesh and blood, they must endure the results of their disregard of God's word. {CD 393.4}

Fish Often Contaminated

(1905) M.H. 314, 315
698. In many places fish become so contaminated by the filth on which they feed as to be a cause of disease. This is especially the case where the fish come in contact with the sewage of large cities. The fish that are fed on the contents of the drains may pass into distant waters, and may be caught where the water is pure and fresh. Thus when used as food they bring disease and death on those who do not suspect the danger. {CD 394.1}

Bruno Health Professional extrodinaire,

Did you miss this: CHAPTER 3
SPECIFIC DISEASES OF CATTLE
Diseases caused by viruses
Foot and mouth disease (FMD, Aphthous fever)

FMD is an acute viral and extremely contagious disease of cloven footed animals such as cattle, sheep, goats, pigs and antelope. It is manifested by vesicles and erosions in the muzzle, nares, mouth, feet, teats, udder and pillar of the rumen. There are three main strains of viruses causing FMD, namely A, O and C. Three additional strains, SAT 1, SAT 2 and SAT 3 have been isolated from Africa and a further strain ASIA-1 from Asia and the Far East.

Transmission: Direct and indirect contact with infected animals and their secretions including saliva, blood, urine, faeces, milk and semen, aerosol droplet dispersion, infected animal by-products, swill containing scraps of meat or other animal tissue and fomites and vaccines.

check out the info. link, or not whatever! http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t0756e/T0756E03.htm

Much more clear here bacteria and disease in the blood and urine of somedead animals.

Print this page
Urine Sediment Own Your Copy Today
Red Blood Cells
White Blood Cells
Epithelial Cells
Cylindruria (Casts)
Infectious Organisms
Crystals
Lipids
Spermatozoa
Plant Material
Microscopic examination of urine sediment should be part of a routine urinalysis. For centrifugation, 3-5 mL of urine is transferred to a conical centrifuge tube. Urine is centrifuged at 1,500-2,000 rpm for ~5 min. The supernatant is decanted, leaving ~0.5 mL of urine and sediment in the tip of the conical tube. The sediment is resuspended by tapping the tip of the conical tube against the table several times. A few drops of the sediment are transferred to a glass slide, and a cover slip is applied. Examination of unstained urine is recommended for routine samples. Microscopic examination is performed at 100¥ (for crystals, casts, and cells) and 400× (for cells and bacteria) magnifications. Contrast of the sample is enhanced by closing the iris diaphragm and lowering the condenser of the microscope. Stains such as Sedistain® and new methylene blue can be used to aid in cell identification but tend to dilute the specimen and introduce artifacts such as stain precipitate and crystals.
Red Blood Cells:
In an unstained preparation, RBC are small and round and have a slight orange tint and a smooth appearance. Normal urine should contain <5 RBC/field at 400× magnification. Increased RBC in urine (hematuria) indicates hemorrhage somewhere in the urogenital system; however, sample collection by cystocentesis or catheterization may induce hemorrhage.
White Blood Cells:
WBC are slightly larger than RBC and have grainy cytoplasm. Normal urine should contain <5 WBC/field at 400¥ magnification. Increased WBC (pyuria) can occur due to inflammation, infection, trauma, or neoplasia. Catheterization or collection of voided urine may introduce a few WBC from the urogenital tract.
Epithelial Cells:
Transitional epithelial cells, a common urine contaminant derived from the bladder and proximal urethra, resemble WBC but are larger. They have a greater amount of grainy cytoplasm and a round, centrally located nucleus. In a voided urine sample, squamous epithelial cells may be observed. They are large, oval to cuboidal in shape, and may or may not contain a nucleus. Occasionally, neoplastic transitional cells may be observed in an animal with a transitional cell carcinoma. Neoplastic squamous cells may be observed in an animal with a squamous cell carcinoma.

link:http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/150220.htm

What you have said here Matthew is in the eye of the beholder.

Yes, and I am not interested either in judgments like what have been expressed. I don't think that they are helpful at all to the discussion.

Let's get back on topic, please!

Messenger, I am not sure what you are trying to show with the descriptions of how to perform a microscopic
analysis of urine. (#212959)

That is certainly an accurate description of what needs to be done, and there has never been any dispute that
all sorts of things can be found in urine, as discussed in the instructions.

It is also not disputed that diseases can be caught by humans from various animal secretions and tissue.

What Bruno has been trying to find out (if I am reading correctly) is what evidence you have found that
urine gets into the blood of the animals.

Have you found any scientific evidence that this happens?

(Please note, I am not trying to argue for eating meat or blood, I am vegetarian. I am just hoping we can have a discussion based on fact and not supposition.)

I'm with Nan. If there is anything credible to be shown ON THE TOPIC, I am interested in learning. I'd hate to feel that the topic will need to be locked up due to squabbling.

Thanks for your comments. As I have said from the beginning in my discussion with Bruno on this topic. I do not have any scientific evidence of the blood urine issue. I said that I was paraphrasing what I was told by and Adventist Doctor about 30 yrs. ago when I first gave up meat. He was giving Health Reform Talks in our church I believe his name was DR. Hoffman if I remember correctly. There very well could be scientific evidence for it, I have not really looked hard, I had no reason to doubt the good Doctor at the time. But of course Bruno disagrees so if you want to keep searching for the evidence to support or deny it that's is fine. I am done with it, I never claimed to be a health professional with documented evidence. In fact the inspired writing of God's Word and of Ellen White have always been enough evidence and conviction for me to stop eating meat. If it is not for others that is between them and God.

blessings in Christ, messenger