"God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 - unOFFICIAL ADVENTIST FORUM

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And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with
– even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.
Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently. Romans 14.1: The Message

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#22362 - 01/16/05 02:43 PM "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2246 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	The thought that came to me when reading this page is the wonder that "our little world is the lesson book of the universe." We are to show to the universe what it means to rely wholly on Christ through all of the traumas that come on this tired old world. We can show them that even in our weakness, Christ can see us through any trial that comes. How we can overcome through the power of Christ is part of the study of angels! God bless, Beryl _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#22363 - 01/17/05 11:06 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: Vera]
Jerry D Thomas Adventist Author Registered: 11/15/04 Posts: 118 Loc: Texas	This first chapter has some of the most beautiful concepts ever expressed in human words. To know that the glory of God is the glory of selfless love makes me wonder if love itself is one of the building blocks of the universe. And what a succinct summary of the great controversy: Satan in his selfishness wanted more honor. He wanted to become a God. Jesus, with his selflessness, didn’t care about honor. He became a human being. I love the idea that when God gave his son to humanity, he adopted all humans. By becoming one of us, Jesus bound Himself to humanity with a tie that will never be broken. What a remarkable picture of God!
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#22364 - 01/18/05 02:09 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: jowalt41]
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2246 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	I realise that for most of us, it is easier to read something on the internet than to go and grab a book (although I love reading, and usually spend my mealtime with one eye on my plate and the other in a book -- OK, I live alone!) Anyway, I wonder whether it may be easier and create more comment if either I or someone else just posted the day's reading ready for comment. Not all pages start at the beginning of a paragraph, so some kind of commonsense will need to be used. And thanks for joining us, Jerry. We look forward to your special insights. So, here is that first page waiting for comments from those who still have to locate their book! Chapter 1 "God With Us" "His name shall be called Immanuel, . . . God with us." "The light of the knowledge of the glory of God" is seen "in the face of Jesus Christ." From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was "the image of God," the image of His greatness and majesty, "the outshining of His glory." It was to manifest this glory that He came to our world. To this sin-darkened earth He came to reveal the light of God's love,--to be "God with us." Therefore it was prophesied of Him, "His name shall be called Immanuel." By coming to dwell with us, Jesus was to reveal God both to men and to angels. He was the Word of God,--God's thought made audible. In His prayer for His disciples He says, "I have declared unto them Thy name,"--"merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,"--"that the love wherewith Thou hast loved Me may be in them, and I in them." But not alone for His earthborn children was this revelation given. Our little world is the lesson book of the universe. God's wonderful purpose of grace, the mystery of redeeming love, is the theme into which "angels desire to look," and it will be their study throughout endless ages. DA p. 19 _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#22365 - 01/18/05 05:27 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: Vera]
cricket Registered: 11/11/03 Posts: 4965	Quote: God's wonderful purpose of grace, the mystery of redeeming love, is the theme into which "angels desire to look," and it will be their study throughout endless ages. DA p. 19 Just a quick thought. Why would this be their study for endless ages? Once the story of our redemption is finished (i.e., heaven is on earth), will the angels then be able to enjoy heaven as we do, and continue to study this mystery of salvation no more?
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#22366 - 01/18/05 08:56 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: CaregiverDee]
Sid Registered: 09/27/04 Posts: 1278 Loc: CA	I think the "study for endless ages" will include worship/study/reflection...in that sense perhaps. Part of our eternal mission will be to share our own testimony and God's love with other people (angels?) among the other worlds/planets...especially since we are unique in that ours is the only fallen planet, and no one else has experienced what we have. One thought I had which ties into this and also to the chapter is how my feeble mind is unable to comprehend God's love. I sit down and read about it, but I cannot comprehend it. I think that is another reason why it will take an eternity to study, worship, and appreciate God's love.
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#22367 - 01/19/05 01:37 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: lastsupper]
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2246 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	Great Controversy, p. 677, 678. "There, immortal minds will contemplate with never-failing delight the wonders of creative power, the mysteries of redeeming love ....There the grandest enterprises may be carried forward, the loftiest aspirations reached, the highest ambitions realized; and still there will arise new heights to surmount, new wonders to admire, new truths to comprehend , fresh objects to call forth the powers of mind and soul and body....And the years of eternity, as they roll, will bring richer and still more glorious revelations of God and of Christ." Sounds as though we will all be learning together, and as we share our experiences, so the inhabitants of other worlds will comprehend even better the love of God, and the wonders of redemption. Beryl _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#22368 - 01/19/05 04:39 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: Vera]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	Just "tagging on" here ... I don't want to be a whiner, but I was kind of hoping this would be a little less structured -- would NOT have to go page by page, but be taken chapter by chapter, loosely, and not involve posting long portions of the book's content page by page by page by page, only just perhaps a paragraph here or there if someone wanted to quote it to illustrate or make a point or reference. And I was hoping it would be more a group discussion than a "led" class kind of atmosphere. I really did not envision there being any "leader". Those were my original thoughts when I came up with the idea anyway. Looking at it so far, I feel kind of disappointed. Maybe it's just this bad day in this bad week I'm having -- maybe it will look different tomorrow. Maybe not. _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#22369 - 01/19/05 07:56 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: lastsupper]
cricket Registered: 11/11/03 Posts: 4965	You've opened a new thought for me: we're to have a mission in heaven. Never thought about that before, somehow, I always thought that our "work" would be done. I've envisioned heaven as the ultimate Sabbath: resting forevermore. Maybe my thoughts on heaven are just beginning. Thanks for the input, Sid. ___________ Nico, I think that your idea is a pretty good one, but, like Beryl said in a previous post, it is a lot easier to read what's already on-line. Maybe a link to the URL with Desire of Ages would be enough for those of us who wish to read it on-line.
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#22370 - 01/19/05 02:33 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2246 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	OK, Nico, that is fine by me. I just thought it may stimulate discussion more if we were all looking at the same thing and coming up with the thoughts that are impressed on our minds. However, you may all disagree with me. That's OK. I only stepped in to actually start the discussion because it seemed to me that everyone was happy to begin the study -- but no-one was actually starting it, and, however good an idea is, if it doesn't get started, then it will go nowhere. Is there someone who would actually like to run a quick pole to see what everyone thinks about it? God bless, Beryl PS The URL to the Desire of Ages is www.whiteestate.org You then click on "published works", select the book you wish to read -- and there it is!. _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#22371 - 01/19/05 07:11 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: CaregiverDee]
Sid Registered: 09/27/04 Posts: 1278 Loc: CA	Quote: You've opened a new thought for me: we're to have a mission in heaven. Never thought about that before, somehow, I always thought that our "work" would be done. I've envisioned heaven as the ultimate Sabbath: resting forevermore. Maybe my thoughts on heaven are just beginning. Thanks for the input, Sid. You're welcome I believe the last chapter of Great Controversy has more info about this as Beryl quoted.
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#22372 - 01/20/05 06:55 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
Sid Registered: 09/27/04 Posts: 1278 Loc: CA	Quote: Those were my original thoughts when I came up with the idea anyway. Looking at it so far, I feel kind of disappointed. Maybe it's just this bad day in this bad week I'm having -- maybe it will look different tomorrow. I thought it was only me having a bad week! My week was pretty awful too. Misery loves company. I pray as the week draws to an end, the weekend will provide you with rest and a renewed spirit Nico. Nico, I thank God for sending his Holy Spirit to speak through you. I know it was His Spirit through you that gave birth to the idea for a study group for Desire of Ages. It will be exciting to see the fruits from what He has done through you! We need you here. I need you here.
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#22373 - 01/20/05 03:47 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: lastsupper]
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2246 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	Yes, Nico, I agree with Sid -- we ALL need you here! The part that struck me (DA p.21) was the sentence, when refering to the angels, that said, "by gentle and patient ministry they move upon the human spirit, to bring the lost into a fellowship with Christ which is even closer than they themselves can know". Imagine that -- the fellowship which we have with Christ is a closer fellowship than the angels themselves can understand! What a wonderful privilege we can have! I pray that God will help me to form an even closer bond with Him than I now have. God bless, Beryl _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#22374 - 01/22/05 05:17 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: Vera]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	Sid, thanks for your prayers. I believe the Lord is choosing to answer them, though He sometimes moves in mysterious ways -- I'm actually down with the flu -- but it meant I got today (Friday) off from babysitting and have had to spend the day resting and doing quiet things. My first thought in chapter one comes from the following: Quote: There is nothing, save the selfish heart of man, that lives unto itself. No bird that cleaves the air, no animal that moves upon the ground, but ministers to some other life. There is no leaf of the forest, or lowly blade of grass, but has its ministry. Every tree and shrub and leaf pours forth that element of life without which neither man nor animal could live; and man and animal, in turn, minister to the life of tree and shrub and leaf. We typically regard the "cycle of life" as presented to us in nature today as being the result of the fall, i.e., animals preying upon other animals, birds eating insects, etc. Yet this passage seems to suggest otherwise. How do you -- or how can we -- reconcile this seeming endorsement of this system as built-in by the hand of God with our notion that death had not entered the world until sin did, and our notion that the predatorial "laws of the jungle" with "nature red in tooth and claw" was an after-effect of the fall? (Do you understand my question here? Am I making sense?) _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#22375 - 01/22/05 05:22 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	This passage is, of course, a classic: Quote: Christ was treated as we deserve, that we might be treated as He deserves. He was condemned for our sins, in which He had no share, that we might be justified by His righteousness, in which we had no share. He suffered the death which was ours, that we might receive the life which was His. "With His stripes we are healed." By His life and His death, Christ has achieved even more than recovery from the ruin wrought through sin. It was Satan's purpose to bring about an eternal separation between God and man; but in Christ we become more closely united to God than if we had never fallen. In taking our nature, the Saviour has bound Himself to humanity by a tie that is never to be broken. _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#22376 - 01/22/05 06:21 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
cricket Registered: 11/11/03 Posts: 4965	Quote: with our notion that death had not entered the world until sin did Perhaps we can reconcile our notion through the idea that the death we typically think of is not the death that results as the wages of sin.
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#22377 - 01/22/05 12:29 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: CaregiverDee]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	So then - are you saying you believe that God intended the law of the jungle, of fang and claw, of prey and predator, from the beginning? If so, that makes for a very different characterization of God than what Christians have typically understood ... ... on the other hand, if comprehended in the sense that is spoken of in the referenced passage, as that of being all life ministering to other forms of life, there is a distinctly "green earth apocalypse" flavor to the thing. (I'm not certain whether it would be accurate to label this a Buddhist- or Hindu- flavored thing so I call it a "green earth apocalypse" flavored thing instead. This is my own term, derived from an extremely visceral visionary experience courtesy of a certain entheogenic tea in which I perceived -- that is, lived through by hallucination -- the creation of the new world through, and following upon, the destruction of the old by fire. When I say visceral I do mean visceral, for I was the earth in this experience. It was kind of a Hinduesque vision with a Mayan aeonic transition overlay -- if you get my drift -- though I suspect most here will not. LOL.) _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#22378 - 01/22/05 01:49 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2246 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	Quote: How do you -- or how can we -- reconcile this seeming endorsement of this system as built-in by the hand of God with our notion that death had not entered the world until sin did, and our notion that the predatorial "laws of the jungle" with "nature red in tooth and claw" was an after-effect of the fall? .... (Do you understand my question here? Am I making sense?) Yes, Nico, you make complete sense! And some things will need to wait until the New Earth for the complete answer. However, reading in Genesis and Isaiah, I feel that we can get a partial answer. Genesis 1:29, immediately after creation, we read, "And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground -- everything that has the breath of life in it -- I give every green plant for food." And it was so". So, there would have been no carnivorous animals or birds, all eating the same diet of the plants of the field. However, with the entrance of death into the world -- and it affected both mankind and every other living creature -- there would have been a need for carnivorous fish, birds and animals in order to deal with the RESULTS of sin. Did God actually create some carnivorous creatures? Or did He just allow some to change and so be able to cope with a change in diet. Remember, mankind lived a long --- long time coming from their perfect state, and I should imagine that the same would have applied to the perfectly created animals, so the quantity of "dead flesh" available would not have been much to begin with. There would have been plenty of time for adaptation. When we come to Isaiah we find several pictures of the New Earth. "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them ...... etc." (Isa 11) "No lion will be there, nor will any ferocious beast get up on it; they will not be found there." Isa. 35:9. "The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox." Isa. 66:25. The prophets would have used the illustrations from the animals which they knew, but I think we can be sure that death will not be part of the New Earth scene, and once again there will be no need for the carnivorous fish, birds or animals. Are those thoughts any help to you? God bless, Beryl _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#22379 - 01/22/05 03:40 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: Vera]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	Quote: Are those thoughts any help to you? Yes -- but they don't explain how Ellen White seemed to portray the carnivorous predatory cycle as part of the evidence of "every life ministering to another life" in contrast to the "selfish heart of man" which alone "lives unto itself." This would only make sense if God built that into the fabric of the "Original Plan From the Beginning." Because surely if He did not, then man would not be alone in not becoming food for something else and the contrast would not be a valid one. However, I find the passage itself highly poetic as well, so the value may lie in discerning its literary structure. The idea of the "sun shining to gladden a thousand worlds" is one example -- as far as we know in our solar system, our sun "gladdens" only 9 or 10 "worlds" along with a number of smaller satellites and a host of asteroids which can hardly be classed as "worlds" -- so clearly the language in this particular passage is meant to be hyperbolic, illustrative and poetic rather than literal, concrete or instructive. And perhaps that is the real point here -- to recognize the presence of these literary structures in EGW's writing and comprehend the impact of them on how we interpret a given passage, as we proceed with our study of Desire of Ages. By the way I can't wait to get into my favorite chapters in here!! Like you can't guess which ones they are!!! _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#22380 - 01/23/05 12:01 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2246 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	Perhaps we have all missed two little sentences which comes just before the passage which we have been discussing. "Now sin has marred God's perfect work, yet that handwriting remains. Even now all created things declare the glory of His excellence." So, in this passage, yes, rich in poetic structure, we find EGW referring to the world as it was after the entrance of sin, not in its Edenic perfection. All creatures minister to the rest of creation -- even if only by manuring their environment, and returning to the earth the vital elements to keep feeding the soil! Just a thought. Beryl _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#22381 - 01/23/05 12:04 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2246 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	Quote: By the way I can't wait to get into my favorite chapters in here!! Like you can't guess which ones they are!!! Patience, my dear -- PATIENCE!!!! _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#22382 - 01/23/05 12:19 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: Vera]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	giggle _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#22383 - 01/23/05 02:51 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2246 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	Ha!! I have just found out by accident how to give that poor little doggie a rest! Just hit "reply" -- and you can almost hear his sigh of relief! _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#22384 - 01/23/05 03:03 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: Vera]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	Well, since I no longer have a say in how this study proceeds, could someone please let me know what's the protocol for moving onto the next chapter? Do we have to wait for the text to be posted? If so, can anyone post it? Must it be posted to move on or can we just start the next thread for discussion "at will"? Just wondering. Since discussion here seems drying up I'm kind of eager to move on, and plan to read chapter 2 today. _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#22385 - 01/23/05 06:06 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
cricket Registered: 11/11/03 Posts: 4965	Yup. I read Chapter 2 last night. Since there's 87 chapters in total, I think it would be wise if we did at least 2 chapters a week. I'm going to post a link to chapter 2 in another thread and we'll go. (I apologize to protocol police in advance if I've leaped ahead of myself!)
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#22386 - 01/27/05 11:03 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: CaregiverDee]
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2246 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	I just can't finish this off without referring to some absolute gems back here in chapter 1. To me it remains a source of absolute wonderment (is that a word?) the lengths to which God has gone to ensure the salvation of every person in this world who chooses to be saved. From pages 25,26. "It was Satan's purpose to bring about an eternal separation between God and man; but in Christ we become more closely united to God than if we had never fallen. In taking our nature, the Saviour has bound Himself to humanity by a tie that is never to be broken....To assure us of His immutable counsel of peace, God gave His only-begotten Son to become one of the human family, forever to retain His human nature." How can we ever begin to understand this? 1 Peter 1:12 tells us that "even angels long to look into these things." In my mind perhaps this very crude illustration helps me to begin to grasp somewhat of the enormity of God's sacrifice. Just imagine, if you are a dog (or cat) lover, that somehow the dog or cat population was about to be extinguished unless someone was able to actually become one of them, be mistreated, hounded, bitten, scratched, and treated in abominal ways. Even when your time of living with them had finished, you would have to remain a dog or cat for the rest of your life! OK, that is perhaps a glimpse of what would have happened if Jesus had stepped down from His throne and become an angel. But He chose to step down and become a human -- equivalent to you or I choosing to become a worm in order to save the worm population. "In Christ the family of earth and the family of heaven are bound together, Christ glorified is our brother...The earth itself, the very field that Satan claims as his, is to be not only ransomed but exalted. Our little world...will be honoured above all other worlds in the universe of God." Imagine -- when all of this is over, God Himself is going to make this earth His Own home!! Love so amazing! _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#22387 - 04/09/05 07:45 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: Vera]
Aliensanctuary Registered: 03/03/05 Posts: 506 Loc: Northern California	The "Circle of Life" mentioned in this chapter reminds me of one of the first things I ever wrote, when I started to believe there was a God, again, so many years ago: Quote: Long ago and far away, before time began, there was God. With power earth-minds cannot comprehend, he transformed thought into reality and assembled the elements into beautiful and spectacular creations. He made for himself a Land to dwell in, green and golden and timeless, and put there tall and noble beings, to be his helpers and companions. He surrounded his world with blazing stars, flaming comets, and magnificent swirling galaxies: a cosmic symphony of light framed into an interstellar tapestry. Nowhere could there be found flaw in his work, for all that he made was good. There, in the Land of God, far beyond the stars we know, all was peace and harmony for age upon age, millennia after millennia. He made other worlds and star systems, strange and wonderful beyond imagination, and scattered them throughout the universe: islands of life in endless fields of light. His great love for all of his creatures reached everywhere, and everywhere love was returned. From star to star and planet to planet, the whole universe reverberated with songs of love and joy and beauty unlimited: all creation united in intergalactic harmony. Copyright © 1981 by Gary Tjaden The Circle of Life is: Quote: Take to Give. (EGW) Jesus took life from God to give to the angels and all other created beings, who in turn returned to Jesus a surging tide of love in service. Jesus then gave this love back to the Father. It was the Law of Self-Renouncing Love that was the Law of Life in the Kingdom of the Stars. So it was in nature before the contamination of the world with Evil, everything took in order to give. Satan, the Evil One, deliberately broke The Perfect Circle of Life when he introduced Evil into God's creation. What is Evil? Quote: Created by the Evil One himself, Satan, evil is the dark energy of chaos. It’s a highly contagious, fatal virus that brings ruin upon on everyone it infects, destroying goodness and beauty and peace. The virus of evil always brings selfishness, hatred, cruelty, conflict, destruction, disease, chaos, and death. To everyone embracing it, it causes permanent damage, leaving them even less able to resist its power over them. Evil is selfishness, selfishness is evil. It's a total disregard for the feelings or property or life of another. The only way to destroy the Virus of Evil was by an act of selfless sacrifice of the Son of God, difficult for uncontaminated beings to understand. Stepping down from the rulership of the Universe, he gave up his extraterrestrial body and had his memories downloaded into a puny, pathetic little earth-body, complete with genetic defects and human weaknesses. This noble sacrifice was no afterthought, for God, who could see backward and forward in time, planned it from the foundation of the world. Only by Love can Evil be overcome. Again, Evil is overcome by Love. That's why Jesus came, to teach us how to love. If we can love, then the Spirit of God can enable us to overcome Evil. Quote: Only by Love is Love awakened. EGW It's the Power of Love that will ultimately destroy Evil. Only those who love God will be saved from destruction, because they love him enough to keep themselves pure. They also love others enough to lay down their lives for them, just as Jesus did for all of humanity. Someday, the Circle of Life will be restored and Evil will be no more. We must choose in this life whether we want Life or Death. There will be no second chances. Our time may end sooner than we think. Choose today. Tomorrow may be too late. Choose Life: Stop doing or thinking evil and resist its power over you, beginning now. Ask for removal of every past evil act or thought from your life record. Be specific. Do only good for others, even if they have harmed you, and avoid selfishness at all costs. Sell your stuff and give to the poor, feed the hungry, visit the sick and those in prison, etc. Seek out others to help them. Live happily, forever, in a mutation-and-disease-free body, with the Son of God in the New Jerusalem, or, on a beautiful, tropical greenhouse earth, or, Choose Death: Embrace evil and welcome its selfish, harmful, destructive pleasures Refuse to repent of all evil thoughts or actions Continue to curse God and harm yourself and others Face inevitable, permanent, fiery destruction
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#22388 - 04/09/05 04:26 PM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
Nicodema Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 777 Loc: Beyond your grasp	You make it sound so simple. But what of those with similar realizations about the nature of things (love vs. hate, etc.) yet who for whatever reasons do not hold a specific belief in God as we do? What of those whose primary reason for not believing in Christ as we do is those who call themselves by His name? (Not necessarily us, but perhaps the christo-corporate-fascist nazi "we are always right no matter how many lies we tell" types who are trying to destroy all freedom and everything the USA is supposed to stand for at present?) (By the way -- sorry if that characterization offends anyone -- that is my honest opinion and were it not for the fact that it is without exception this particular sort and their legalistic/Pharisaic counterparts who turn people I KNOW to be decent, hardworking, intelligent, sensitive, potentially spiritual people OFF from God, I might hold a different opinion but as it stands I will NOT be sucked in by self-serving lies masquerading as the religion of Christ!!! SORRY if that offends but it's where I stand and NO it does not mean I think I'm perfect or know everything -- NOR does it mean I think other political solutions are perfect -- so don't even try that jank on me!!! P.S. WAR IS OF SATAN LIKE IT OR NOT. THAT'S ABSOLUTE REALITY FOR YOU. EGW even says so, so you didn't hear it from me only.) :2cents: _________________________ "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#22389 - 04/10/05 06:31 AM Re: "God With Us". Desire of Ages Chapter 1 [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Registered: 03/03/05 Posts: 506 Loc: Northern California	There will always be a class of professing religionists who, whether they care or not, stomp on those who hold them in contempt and disgust. Some of the professing religionists in other countries have guns and machetes, and use them on their religious opponents. Other religionists, blind to their own faults, spew their doctrine and opinions, turning more sensitive souls away from God by misrepresenting him and what he wants us to do. Quote: Search thine own self. What paineth thee in others, In thyself may be. All dust is frail, All flesh is weak. Be thou the true man Thou dost seek. (I no longer remember who the author is of this poem.) Ultimately, we're responsible for ourselves. We all have the Bible and the words of Christ. We don't have to look at flawed, erring humans to see Jesus. We can find him for ourselves, regardless of the current state of religious institutions or their followers. That's what Jesus had to do to find his Father, he had to search for himself: "It is written." He certainly didn't fit into the religionist's scheme of things or follow their religious practices. What Christians today need is feedback to make them aware of their faults, and, a willingness to accept criticism and a desire to fight their human nature and overcome their defects so they won't turn searching souls away from God. I think that would be a sign of a true Christian: a willingness to change, and, humility, realizing they could be turning someone away from God by thoughtless words or actions. It's all too easy for someone to stand on the sidelines and criticize other's for what they're not doing right (arm-chair quarterbacking), but it's another matter altogether to demonstrate to those in error how it's done right. So, is everyone who professes to be a Christian a hypocrite, and everyone who does not profess anything, not? That's a really easy way to avoid any responsibility for one's actions. Don't profess anything but heathenism or atheism. Then you're not accountable for any of your words and actions, and, you have a free license to criticize and condem other's for their failures and faults concerning their religion. People don't need religion. They need to meet their Creator. They could do it on their own, if there's no other way. If they believe in God, they need to look for him, in song, in nature, in scriptures. If they look at others and reject God, that's very, very sad. May God have mercy on us all.
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