#23316 - 01/23/05 06:09 PM
Ch. 2: The Chosen People
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Registered: 11/11/03
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#23317 - 01/23/05 06:15 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: CaregiverDee]
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Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4852
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Quote:
Had Israel been true to God, He could have accomplished His purpose through their honor and exaltation. If they had walked in the ways of obedience, He would have made them "high above all nations which He hath made, in praise, and in name, and in honor." "All people of the earth," said Moses, "shall see that thou art called by the name of the Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee." "The nations which shall hear all these statutes" shall say, "Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people." Deut. 26:19; 28:10; 4:6. But because of their unfaithfulness, God's purpose could be wrought out only through continued adversity and humiliation.
This section really spoke to me last night. Especially the sentence I've highlighted in bold. As Adventists, are we to consider ourselves as the "chosen people" of God? If so, are we faithful enough that God's purpose might not have to be wrought out only through continued adversity and humiliation?
On a more personal level, am I a "chosen daughter" of God? Indeed, I must believe I am. And so, I feel a more compelling urge this morning to put an end to the adversity and humiliation that I serve God with everyday.
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#23319 - 01/23/05 08:53 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: ]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Quote:
(Page 28-29)
... the conviction became fixed that their prosperity depended upon their obedience to the law of God. But with too many of the people obedience was not prompted by love. The motive was selfish. They rendered outward service to God as the means of attaining to national greatness.
Here is the result of that above error. With their eyes still fixed upon the wrong goal, the wrong end, now the Israelites have learned a valuable life lesson: prosperity of any kind depends upon obedience to the laws by which God governs our universe, or at least our little world inside it. However, notice what this leads to: conforming to "outward service" -- a particular lifestyle, culture, set of manners, a moral straitjacket as it were -- to what end? "as the means of attaining national greatness." They STILL did not TRUST and LOVE God. They wanted what HE promised ... but they wanted to get it on their own rather than let Him GIVE it to them!! At this point we are not talking mere stubbornness or rebellion -- we are talking blindness at best and sheer bondage beyond that. This is a serious matter, a grave condition only a Redeemer who could give sight to the blind and proclaim liberty to the captives, could heal.
How many of us get caught in this trap today? Tithing because if we don't we know our finances will cave in or God's much-needed help might be removed is one example ... what about Sabbath keeping so we don't lose the blessing ... or any other kind of outward service for selfish gain ... how do we get ourselves OUT of those spots if we find ourselves in them? Anyone?
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#23320 - 01/23/05 09:24 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: ]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Quote:
(Page 29)
They did not become the light of the world, but shut themselves away from the world in order to escape temptation to idolatry. In the instruction given through Moses, God had placed restrictions upon their association with idolaters; but this teaching had been misinterpreted. It was intended to prevent them from conforming to the practices of the heathen. But it was used to build up a wall of separation between Israel and all other nations. The Jews looked upon Jerusalem as their heaven, and they were actually jealous lest the Lord should show mercy to the Gentiles.
Bravus brought up the thought elsewhere about what happens when we shut ourselves up into "Adventist ghettoes." Some who have grown up that way or lived that way for many years probably understand the negative effects of that far better than I ever could. To me, it almost seems like it could be a foretaste of heaven -- if I were not such a misfit/outsider type myself that I simply cannot navigate people-group structures (cliques, pecking orders, hierarchies) AT ALL!!
But anyway, EGW makes it clear here what the problem is: a wall is built that separates those intended to be lights in this dark world from those who need that light God longs to shine through them. This wall can soon take on ominous overtones of bigotry, rivalry, and a desire to own/control/horde God's blessings entirely to themselves. Can you imagine a nation that thinks it is exclusively God's own people, to the point where they look down on other nations and believe they have the right to horde the blessings God has bestowed upon them to themselves? I see two potential applications here -- one to how we SDAs relate to other churches (as well as to the rest of the world's diverse people groups and cultures); and another, as an American I see a warning about how America regards herself in relationship to other nations and peoples in this world. Particularly a warning for those Americans who believe this is supposed to be a "Christian nation" and all of that, which notions you well know, I do not share, for various reasons.
In that light, I see a third warning here about how we as Christians involve ourselves in the affairs of other people's lives, especially people who do not share our faith. Some very slick wordsmiths often make clever arguments about how if Christian folks will not support their political causes, they are the same as if condoning the sins of the people against whom these slick tongues are crusading. The Bible does say "Come out from among them and be ye separate," and I totally agree with that principle. However, we should remember -- in light of the above paragraph -- that separation is only meant to keep us from conforming to their practices. It does not call upon us to actively engage ourselves in fighting them to force them to change; this will NEVER convert them in heart and may in fact destroy all chance of so doing!!!
Rather, the purpose of mingling ourselves with the world, being in it but not of it, is, in fact, to be as salt and light, which are preservatives, flavor-enhancers and illuminators. It is by such means as THOSE are we to exert an influence in the world, truly winning hearts and minds for Christ without one flicker of resort to the coercive measures of the world.
Mingling with those who do not know Christ, to seek to meet their needs, win their confidence, and bid them follow Him, is being in the world but not OF it. The weapons of our warfare are NOT carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds! On the other hand, going forth with a loud war cry, seeking to meddle in the affairs of others' lives with judgment, criticism and condemnation, to attempt to deprive them of their just and civil rights as human beings, to condone bigotry and oppression against them, to label, villianize and/or demonize them, and through legislature attempt to force them to conform to our demands, constitutes not only being IN the world FAR too much, but ALSO BEING ENTIRELY OF IT AS WELL. And that is not to what we are called, my brothers.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#23321 - 01/23/05 11:49 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: ]
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Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4852
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Quote:
How many of us get caught in this trap today? Tithing because if we don't we know our finances will cave in or God's much-needed help might be removed is one example ... what about Sabbath keeping so we don't lose the blessing ... or any other kind of outward service for selfish gain ... how do we get ourselves OUT of those spots if we find ourselves in them? Anyone?
I have a hard time interpreting my motives when I pay tithe, keep the Sabbath, do the "Lord's will". It is truly difficult for me to piece apart the why from the what I do.
For the most part, I believe that tithing and keeping the Sabbath are things that God desires that we do. I believe that when we do these things we are pleasing God. I'm not certain that this is as far as God wants us to take this, however.
I've been nursing the thought that God really wants us to want to do the same things He wants. (Is this making any sense?) I believe He wants us to desire to do good. Not necessarily because it is something He wants us to do.
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#23322 - 01/24/05 12:05 AM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: ]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Quote:
At the time of the birth of Christ the (1)nation was chafing under the rule of her foreign masters, and (2)racked with internal strife. The Jews had been (3)permitted to maintain the form of a separate government; but nothing could disguise the fact that they were under the Roman yoke, or reconcile them to the restriction of their power. ... The people were subjected to their merciless demands, and were also heavily taxed by the Romans. This state of affairs caused widespread discontent. Popular outbreaks were frequent. (4)Greed and violence, distrust and spiritual apathy, were eating out the very heart of the nation.
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(5)Hatred of the Romans, and national and spiritual pride, led the Jews still to adhere rigorously to their forms of worship. The priests tried to maintain a reputation for sanctity by scrupulous attention to the ceremonies of religion. (6)The people, in their darkness and oppression, and the rulers, thirsting for power, longed for the coming of One who would (7)vanquish their enemies and restore the kingdom to Israel. They had studied the prophecies, but without spiritual insight. Thus they overlooked those scriptures that point to the humiliation of Christ's first advent, and misapplied those that speak of the glory of His second coming. (8)Pride obscured their vision. They interpreted prophecy in accordance with their selfish desires.
These paragraphs make me think of the state of Christendom within the United States in our day and age, and perhaps in the world in general, though I really only have knowledge of how things are in the States.
- (1)"Chafing under rule..." -- Basically in the USA there is a lot of unrest with the right-wingers who are basically the mainstream of fundamental and evangelical churchgoers in our nation. They are chafing under the rule of ANY secular authorities altogether, to the point where the more extreme among them advocate a return to theocracy, and even the less extreme are still, despite the election for a second term of a president hand-picked by their own kind, dissatisfied and complaining that liberal spin rules everywhere and atheists are out to rule the nation and they are the poor persecuted victims. They simply can't bear having anyone over them that does not share their views, values and goals. They are like the Israelites, chafing at Roman rule.
- (2) "... racked with internal strife ..." -- the discord and division within Christendom is at an all-time high. Never before have there been so many sects, splinter groups, divisions, subdivisions, denominations, etc. with each of these torn apart by infighting, plagued by clergy corruption, child sex abuse scandals, and as much breakdown of the home and family as "the world out there" experiences, statistically speaking. Reports in Christianity Today magazine, I believe, have recently confirmed as much. Christendom is a house divided ... what does that tell us? She is now Babylon, the habitation of demons. How is the faithful city become an harlot!
- (3) -- "permitted to maintain" -- yes, the churches are still allowed to run themselves and enjoy tax exempt status; but this still cannot disguise that this status is the carrot and at the end of that carrot lies the stick. A favor from the government means a tie to the government; any curry of favor from the State makes incumbent an oath of debt to the State even an'it be a silent one. While some complain the tide of secular interests, popular culture, consumer trends all wash away their voice from the public square like a flood, in reality what troubles them the most are that the last remaining vestiges and artifacts of a system of checks and balances, designed to serve a pluralist nation, currently hold them back and restrict them from their imperialist desires and indulging their thirst for power.
- (4) "Greed and violence, distrust and spiritual apathy ..." -- do these not sum up the core symptoms of our modern malaise as a people in the post-industrialized Western world?
- (5) -- these are the chief attitudes of Christendom today in general, or at least the vocal and politically aggressive variety: hatred for the "Romans" (secular leaders and people groups) as well as national and spiritual pride (arrogance). Especially in America, a false pseudo-patriotism is woven and stirred into every piece of flag-waving rah-rah rhetoric pumped out by the crowd-rilers.
- (6) -- We see the same dichotomy active in the USA today, with the leaders thirsting for power leading the people blinded with darkness through the nose, promising them everything they want and delivering nothing, excusing all, and passing themselves off as just like those they serve while in secret trampling upon their backs and laughing at them all the way to the bank -- and lo and behold, "My people love to have it so! But what will ye do in the end thereof?" (Jer. 5:31)
- (7) -- Compare this to how many popular eschatological (end-time) scenarios are out there now FLOODING the Christian pop-culture market (books, movies, etc.) which depict a triumphal Christ stepping into Jerusalem in time to slaughter all "our" enemies (whom we conveniently deem to be His enemies too, nevermind we are talking about a God who first said "LOVE THINE ENEMIES" and THEN through Ellen White told us He would return AFTER "the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His people..." ...
- (8) -- Let us pray, therefore, it shall not be so with us.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#23325 - 01/24/05 04:37 AM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: CaregiverDee]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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If I write it, will you use it at your church and pass it around for others to use in SS and church if they wish?
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#23326 - 01/24/05 04:50 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: ]
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Adventist Author
Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 110
Loc: Texas
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I think that God isn't looking for good behavior, He's looking for changed hearts. When we really surrender our lives to Jesus, He doesn’t give us new arms and legs so that we can act differently. He gives us a new heart, so that we actually are different.
One of the things that strike me from this chapter is how because of their nit-picky rules, it became impossible to keep the law. Those who were sincerely trying to do the right things, carried an extremely heavy burden of guilt. This led to discouragement, of course, skewed their understanding of God, and made their religion a hated thing.
I expect that we do the same thing sometimes when we try to dictate and enforce lifestyle issues for those around us in the name of God. I suspect that this is why too many of our younger generations have turned away from the religion they grew up with.
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#23329 - 01/24/05 07:32 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: jowalt41]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Quote:
I think that God isn't looking for good behavior, He's looking for changed hearts. When we really surrender our lives to Jesus, He doesn’t give us new arms and legs so that we can act differently. He gives us a new heart, so that we actually are different.
One of the things that strike me from this chapter is how because of their nit-picky rules, it became impossible to keep the law. Those who were sincerely trying to do the right things, carried an extremely heavy burden of guilt. This led to discouragement, of course, skewed their understanding of God, and made their religion a hated thing.
I expect that we do the same thing sometimes when we try to dictate and enforce lifestyle issues for those around us in the name of God. I suspect that this is why too many of our younger generations have turned away from the religion they grew up with.
That's an excellent summary of this chapter, Jerry! Thank you for posting it.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#23330 - 01/25/05 01:42 AM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: CaregiverDee]
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Adventist Author
Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 110
Loc: Texas
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Actually, the nit-picky rules were the ones they made up for themselves. If you'll forgive a quote from Messiah, chapter two also,
"As they drifted further from God, the Jews mostly lost sight of the meaning of the rituals and services in the temple. Jesus Himself had started that service and every part of it was a symbol of Him. But the Jews had lost all the meaning and were only going through the motions. They trusted the sacrifices and rituals, instead of trusting the God to whom those rituals pointed. To make up for the lost meaning, the priests and rabbis added more and more rules of their own. And the more rules they had, the more judgmental they became, and the less of God's love they showed. They considered themselves holy, but pride and hypocrisy filled their hearts.
With all their minute, nit-picky rules, it became impossible to keep the law."
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#23331 - 01/25/05 01:50 AM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: CaregiverDee]
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Adventist Author
Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 110
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
Nico,
If you wrote it, I'd do everything I could to share it. I think, perhaps the best way I could share it would be with my Pathfinder connections. It definitely belongs in a nature honor as a required devotional study!
When are you going to write a book, anyway?
(Ahem. Mr. Thomas, we have another very talented writer in our midst.)
From all I've read, I think you're right (and stop with the Mr. Thomas--I'm not that old). Nico, we are in constant need of fresh voices with something significant to say. It seems to me that you qualify on both counts. Write!
Jerry
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#23332 - 01/25/05 11:26 AM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: jowalt41]
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Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 4101
Loc: Western United States
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Quote:
With all their minute, nit-picky rules, it became impossible to keep the law."
And what was that Law that was no longer possible to keep.
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."
Luke 10:27,28
Lift Jesus up!! 
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#23334 - 01/25/05 08:17 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: ]
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Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1222
Loc: CA
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What about your testimony? I would definitely read that.
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#23335 - 01/25/05 11:23 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: lastsupper]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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 alertYeah ... that could prove a bit difficult in my case, Sid. It's very hard to speak of where I've come from and where I've been, with any degree of accuracy or vicarious conveyance, without doing two things we don't want to do:
(1) give glory (inadvertently of course) to satan;
(2) provide an avenue of seduction/temptation he can exploit for others.
Some of the places I've been and things I've done are extremely provocative to the flesh and carry a heavy "forbidden fruit" allure for some people. It would be really tricky to figure out how to tell the story without "going there" too much YET without watering it down into rendering it pointless to tell at all. Another matter is the issue of paradigms. I'm still exploring which one actually will cure (and thus accurately name) my condition at this point, as well as what it means to seek God in this condition and worship Him, and be used by Him, while still in this condition. I have every faith His ultimate plan is for me to be delivered from these afflictions, but whether that means before He returns or after, I honestly cannot say. I would hope before, else I will never be able to effectively work for Him or represent Him here on earth in the end times and I don't think that's His plan. But I am only the clay; He is the Potter. I am His servant to do with as He wills. Nebuchadnezzar only took seven years to humble; I have already taken 21. That is because he was only an earthly leader; I am an earthly kingdom, and a proud and haughty queen over them at that. I really believe I will be released this year, but I cannot say for certain. I've been deceived before. We should probably discuss this stuff elsewhere, folks, and save these threads for the Desire of Ages study ... 
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#23336 - 01/26/05 02:28 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: ]
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 2175
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
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Wow! I turn my back for one minute, and the "kids" have scampered on ahead of me! Never mind. We have just filled a 40ft container ready for shipping to Sri Lanka, with another one coming tomorrow ready to be filled, and I haven't kept up with you.
However, I am glad you are going ahead with the study. If you don't mind, I will trundle along behind, and add my bits and pieces to the chapters you have already covered, and you can look at my comments if and as you desire.
God bless,
Beryl
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#23337 - 01/26/05 03:31 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: Vera]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Of course we desire! I think Chrys is on full speed ahead here. We can keep the discussions going simultaneously though.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#23338 - 01/26/05 07:29 PM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: ]
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Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4852
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I'm not necessarily on full speed ahead...tee-hee! It's just that in looking at the bulk of the material, I've realized that if we were to cover one chapter a week, we'd be here on this study forever and, as much as I like it, I just would like to "free" the future for other studies---like the Great Controversy and such... Like Nico said, keep adding on, of course we desire! By the way, I have to admit, I haven't actually read Chapter 3 yet, I just posted the link. 
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#23339 - 01/27/05 03:30 AM
Re: Ch. 2: The Chosen People
[Re: CaregiverDee]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Yeah, I understand your concern -- I'm equally concerned though that if we barrel on ahead TOO fast we might leave some folks in the dust. But of course they could always pipe in whenever.... I was going to post the link to chap. 3 myself later this week anyhoo. Chrys if we run into a BIG chapter let's do that one by itself for the week, and do 2 for the week for normal sized ones -- does that sound good? Some chapters in here are HUGE ... others are pretty small.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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