Evangelicals and conservatives of the SDA church are both fundamentalists. Neither understand the true nature of divine inspiration, and so both are likely to misinterpret the words of the prophets.

The abyss is simply death.

Is there more coming?

Wow that was very interesting, I must say.

pk

sohel001

1st - -I want to make this very clear, do not copy and paste items with out giving credit to the source and website. Do not plagiarize.

2nd - - Get rid of the link in the signature. Do that today.

Yes .... it was. I too am waiting for the rest. Part 11 or 111. And a reference to be forthwith.

Dear Gentlemen and Ladies,

When did we get the idea that prophets and apostles were infallible. Remember that Scripture is not dictated, it is thought inspired with the prophets putting the thoughts on paper using their own words. There are some errors in Scripture. For instance Matthew attributes a prophecy to Jeremiah when it is from Zechariah. Samuel and Chronicles record the same event where David causes the people to be counted, and God brings judgment. One account says that Satan caused him to do the count, but the other account declares that the Lord caused him to do the count. Which is correct? Do not hold EGW to a higher standard. There are many things which Ellen White stated and used which did not come from the Holy Spirit. Many times she would use the understanding of her day to illustrate a concept. Such was the idea of coal fires being the cause for volcanism. That was the science of her day. This is no different than the Samuel and Chronicles problem; each writer worked under the understanding of his time. Did God cause David to sin? Or did Satan?

God never gave to EGW the authority to determine or dictate doctrine for the Church; it has always been the work of the Church. Many have tried to make her such to their detriment, I might add. And it has never been the right of any one member nor a church board to determine doctrine for the Church. Rather, the General Conference, and that is not the representative body in DC, it is the Church in business session during the general conference held every five years (GC) that is the final authority for doctrine for the SDA Church. It is the result of studies by the world body, then coming together at the GC every five years and voting to accept or reject. EGW is correct when she states that the GC is the highest authority, and we are to accept its vote. We should not cause schism because we disagree with the decisions made at GC. We can continue to study and use the proper channels to forward our studies; I believe the brethern are continually open to further study and light. But we are not to cause a split in the church because we disagree with the decisions made in business session of the five year general conference. Nor should politics and strategy be used to obtain a vote for a position. All needs to be done open and above board in order that God may be honored.

As far as A.G. Daniels suppressing documents, you will find that he was one of those who desired to open up everything to the Adventist people. But the majority in committee decided against it. So please do not assign evil to Daniels. Rather, I find some of the fore-stated history suspect. I would suggest there needs to be authentication of the allegations made. Otherwise, do not accuse with unsubstantiated history. I would suggest do not accuse the brethren without good evidence to do so. Hearsay is not acceptable.

I knew the people in the Ford and the Walter Rheas controversy personally. I personally confronted many of them. They were my classmates in college when I studied for the ministry. They were wrong Scripturally. And no amount of post-historical quarterbacking will make them right. At the same there were many among the church leaders who didn't do the study that should have been done. I left the ministry because I couldn't agree with all the positions taken by the Church. But I didn't leave the SDA Church. Rather, I continued to study until I could come to a position with which I was comfortable. And eventually, I will present my findings through the proper channels and allow the entire church to evaluate my findings. But I will not do anything that will cause the Church to split. There was rebellion and schism during the Ford and Rhea controversies which should never have happened, and many will find themselves outside the gates of the holy city because of their attitude. God was not honored.

The abyss to the Hebrew mind was the ocean depths below the photic zone; it was blackness and unfathomable. They did not know how deep it went; for all they knew, it was unlimited. Thus, in Genesis 1, Moses uses the idea of the abyss as a representation of the darkness and deepness of space. And darkness was over the face of the deep (tehom) and the spirit of God moved over the face of the waters (seas).

Also be careful with 2 Peter 2.4. The word here is Tartarus; it is the Greek word for the chasm where souls are cleansed by fire for a short period of time then are allowed to return to a corporeal body in order to experience another life upon the earth. It is the pagan philosopher's, Plato, concept and became the forerunner of the Catholic purgatory. It is not associated with the abyss. It is a temporary holding place; it is not the final.

Luke 8.31 is best understood according to Jewish thought where the abyss is the region below the photic zone, deep, dark, and impenetrable. Even though the writers of the New Testament wrote in Koine Greek, it does not mean they lost their Jewish concepts of reality and understanding. The abyss was a place of mystery; none knew what was in these dark depths. And lets remember that it was only recently that we have had the capacity to explore below the photic zone of the oceans and deep lakes. Up until this time, everything below the photic depth was a mystery.

And if you want to suggest that there are some people alive after Christ's coming because Isaiah 24.6 seems to indicate this is the case will also have a problem with Isaiah where he states "for the young man shall die a hundred years old", Isaiah 65.20, to suggest that death will exist in eternity. Again, we must be careful and obtain all the statements in Scripture before deriving a conclusion. You cannot use one or two texts to form a doctrine.

I would suggest that the abyss should be understood as that area which is presently unobservable to the naked eye such as the depths of the continents. As I understand scripture, the earth will go through a very cataclysmic time when the very roots of the continents will be exposed and whole mountains chains and islands will disappear. Thus, it would appear that Satan will be chained to the abyssal plains of the earth; those plains now hidden from view. That all which is alive will die at His coming. The earth will be in chaos with its roots exposed and nothing left on which to survive.

Again, let us study scripture diligently with an eye towards glorifying God and not ourselves. Let us earnestly pray over our Scriptural study, and let us march forward to truth. EGW has clearly stated that there is much more to learn and that many of our positions are not totally correct. We have much to learn. Study, Study, Study; pray, pray, pray, and ask God for wisdom. And do not use EGW as the final authority on doctrine, and understand that not all written by her was inspired by God. She used what was available to her in order to bring understanding to the truths presented to her by God. Rather, it is the principles and concepts which are inspired such as the principles of health.

Sincerely,
The Searcher

Searcher, what does your post have to do with "Books for Sale"????

Amen sister, you seem to be a deep studier. We should all be deep studiers.

Dear Friends,

I am sorry; I thought there was some theological discussion concerning the reason for the sale. I am sorry if I mistook the various responses in the wrong way. If I remember correctly there was a discussion concerning the reason for the sale with a theological response by many in regards to these issues. And I do remember a rather large email concerning some conspiracy by the church and Daniels and Froom to cover up and suppress. There was also a discussion how the conservatives are part of the conspiracy. Did I get that wrong? I am truly sorry if I misunderstood the nature of the discussion.

Sincerely,
The Searcher

Searcher, Isaiah 24:6 probably means the righteous remnant who have not fallen under the judgments of God.

Isa 24:6 Therefore has the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Which to my way of thinking corresponds with:

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it.


2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved to judgment

This also corresponds to the Gehenna of the Jews (Matt. 5:22) of course Peter lived in a Hellenistic Greek atmosphere, and in writing to them employs a Greek term, but does not endorse the idea of Tartarus or Gehenna, but simply refers to th place of abode where the evil angels are restricted to until the day of judgment.

No. The 1000 years does not happen on earth, the saints are given immortality and all go to heaven for a 1000 years as the wicked are judged.

At this time Satan is bound by chains of circumstances and he and his evil angels are the only ones left on earth during the 1000 years. This is why New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven to the earth for the final judgment of the wicked as they are raised in the 2nd resurrection.

Here is a brief synopsis of the 1000 years beginning with the mark of the beast:

1000 Years sequence of Events

Event #1 - The Mark of the Beast Is Given
Revelation 13:16-17 — The Antichrist Beast enforces his Mark with coercive threats.
Revelation 14:9-10 — But God warns us against taking it.
Event #2 - Our Probation Closes
Revelation 22:11-12 — Jesus accepts each one’s decision as final and says He will return quickly.
Event #3 - The Seven Last Plagues Fall
Revelation 15:1 & 8 — Seven angels pour out the wrath of God.
Revelation 16:1-17 — The Seven Last Plagues punish those who have the Mark of the Beast.
Event #4 - The Second Coming of Christ Is Spectacular
Matthew 24:30-31 — Christ returns “with power and great glory” to gather His faithful people.
Matthew 25:31 — When comes in His glory, all the holy angels accompany Him.
Revelation 1:7 — As Christ gathers His redeemed in the Rapture, “every eye shall see Him.”
Event #5 - The RIGHTEOUS DEAD Are Resurrected
1 Thessalonians 4:16 — The DEAD believers in Christ rise “first”—before the living faithful.
Revelation 20:6 — “The FIRST resurrection” is for those “blessed and holy,” who are “with Him [Christ] a thousand years.” The word first implies a second, and there ARE two resurrections, 1000 years apart.
John 5:28-29 — “The resurrection of life” is opposed to “the resurrection of damnation,” 1000 years later.
Event #6 - The RIGHTEOUS LIVING Are Caught Up
1 Thessalonians 4:17 — The living saints are then caught up “to meet the Lord in the air.”
Event #7 - The WICKED LIVING When Christ Comes Are Struck Dead
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 —Christ will take “vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not.”
2 Thessalonians 2:8 — Christ will “destroy [the wicked] with the brightness of His Coming.”
Isaiah 13:9 —The Lord will lay the land desolate and destroy the sinners out of it.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
66:15-16 — “Behold, . . . the slain of the Lord shall be many.”
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.


Event #8 - On EARTH: Satan Is “Bound” with No One Left to Tempt
Revelation 20:1-3 & 7 — Satan is bound with “a great chain” and cast into “the bottomless pit . . . till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released a little while.”
Are (1) the “great chain” which binds Satan and (2) “the bottomless pit” which forms his “prison” LITERAL? The Devil is real and literal enough. Jesus Himself said: “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” Luke 10:18. But the angel Lucifer, who made himself into the Devil called Satan, is a supernatural being. As Paul put it: “We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12.
Simple reason tells us that no actual, literal “chain” or “pit” or “prison” could secure a supernatural being. More important, sacred Scripture tells us the same thing. One day after sailing across the Sea of Galilee: “They [Jesus and His disciples] came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes. And when He was come out of the ship, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with CHAINS: because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been PLUCKED ASUNDER by him, and the fetters BROKEN IN PIECES.” Mark 5:1-9.
Ask yourself, if a devil possessed man could easily break apart a chain with superhuman strength, is it likely that the prince of devils himself could be bound with one? So what kind of “chain” is it that God uses to bind Satan? It’s a chain of CIRCUMSTANCES which binds the Devil more securely than any literal chain ever forged. Note the circumstances in which Satan finds himself at this time: In the first place, all the righteous who were unwilling to listen to him anyway have been taken to heaven. And all the wicked have been struck dead. Thus the entire earth is depopulated with NO ONE LEFT for Satan to tempt! Old Testament prophets foresaw this unique situation: Jeremiah 25:33 — The slain wicked “shall not be LAMENTED or GATHERED or BURIED” for there are no survivors around to do any of these things!
Isaiah 26:21 — When the Lord returns, “the earth . . . shall no more cover her slain.”
Isaiah 24:1, 3, 22 — “The Lord makes the earth EMPTY. . . .The land shall be utterly EMPTIED.”
How very effective this chain of circumstances is! Satan is securely bound, “chained” by circumstances beyond his control. But what is “the bottomless pit”? The Greek word translated “bottomless pit” is abussos from which we get our English word abyss. Modern Bible versions like the Amplified Bible, NASB, NEB, NIV, TEV, and others translate “bottomless pit” in Revelation 20:1 as “abyss.” Abussos is exactly the same word the Greek translation of the Old Testament uses in Genesis 1:2, where it says “the earth waswithout form, and void.” The prophet Jeremiah directed divine light on this question when, centuries ago, he looked down the corridor of time with the eye of Inspiration and testified:
Jeremiah 4:23-27 — The earth is desolate, without form and void, with NO human inhabitant!
What period of history was Jeremiah seeing when he wrote, “Lo, there was NO MAN”? We might think it was at the start of Creation Week, because (1) “there was no man”before God formed Adam, the first man, and because (2) Jeremiah said “the earth . . . was without form, and void” which was true at that time.
But although those two clues fit that time period, we note that God placed a third clue in this passage which does not fit: Jeremiah says he saw “all the CITIES . . . broken down.” This vision could not possibly be of the beginning of Creation Week, for man did not build cities before he was even created!
The only other time in human history when prophecy could describe the earth as having “no man” is during the Millennium while the earth is depopulated of all living people, “empty,” as we read before.
At that time “all the cities” WILL be “broken down,” completely leveled from the devastation of the final one of the Seven Last Plagues which brings the most terrificearthquake ever and pulverizing hail.
Event #9 - In HEAVEN: The Saints Assist in the Judgment
Revelation 20:4 — The redeemed sat on thrones, “and judgment was committed to them.”
Luke 22:30 — Jesus desires “That ye may . . . sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
1 Corinthians 6:2-3 — The saints shall judge the world and angels, the angels who fell with Lucifer.
Even human legal proceedings don’t dispose of a case in a flash. The whole process has several stages:
1. First, there’s the investigation of all pertinent facts we call a TRIAL.
2. Second, there’s the rendering of a decision we call a VERDICT.
3. Next there’s often an assessment of the verdict we call a JUDICIAL REVIEW.
4. Finally there is a carrying out of the verdict we call the EXECUTION of the sentence.
The same process is seen in mankind’s Final Judgment. The first two steps take place in heaven before Jesus returns (Daniel 7:9-10), for Step One, the investigation or “trial,” must precede Step Two when Christ announces His “verdict” that each morally filthy or holy person stay that way (Revelation 22:11). And Step Four, the “execution” of the wicked’s final death sentence, will take place after the thousand years are finished.
But Step Three is where the redeemed saints, in heaven, are granted the privilege of conducting a “judicial review” of the cases of the wicked who lie dead on earth. God knows that because some people are not saved, they will be missed by the saints, yet He wants no heavy hearts in heaven. So God will allow us to ask any questions about His decision as to why some are not saved in heaven, such as:
1. “How come Aunt Martha and Grandfather! aren’t here? They were such good people.”
2. “Yes, and how about Pastor Jones and Father Brown? God made a mistake if they’re lost!”
Then an angel will lead the inquirers to heaven’s Record Books, now lying open to examination, and sadly reveal the unforgiven sins, sins not blotted out, unknown to the world, unknown even to close friends and loved ones. God is too wise to allow even a trace of a doubt to linger in anyone’s mind about His justice. Though the wicked from all ages suffered the first death common to all men, God will not destroy them by the second death in the Lake of Fire until this review of His judgment is completed. In other words, God makes sure that Event #14 (wicked are destroyed by fire) will not take place until Event #9 has been thoroughly completed.
C. — Events AFTER the
1000 Year Millennium
Event #10 - The Wicked Are Resurrected, So Satan Is Loosed
Revelation 20:3, 5a, & 7 — Those “blessed and holy” had part in the first resurrection. “But the rest of the dead [the wicked] lived not again until the thousand years were finished. . . . And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison” for once again he has people to tempt!
Event #11 - The Holy City Descends from God Out of Heaven
Revelation 21:2 & 10 — The New Jerusalem, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband, descends.
Event #12 - The Wicked Surround God’s Holy City
Revelation 20:7-9 — With the wicked alive again, Satan is loosed out of his prison and goes out to deceive them, to gather them to battle against the beloved city.
Event #13 - The Wicked Are Judged Before God’s “Great White Throne”
Revelation 20:11-13 — Before the great white throne, “the books were opened” to judge the lost.
Romans 14:10-12 — Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess and give account to God.
Event #14 - The Wicked Are Destroyed by Fire
Revelation 20:9, 14-15 — When the wicked surround the holy city to attack it, FIRE comes down from God out of heaven and DEVOURS them. This lake of fire is the SECOND death.
Revelation 21:8 — The wicked of every description have their part in this lake of fire.
Event #15 - The Earth Is CLEANSED by Fire and Made New
2 Peter 3:10-13 — “The elements shall MELT with fervent heat. . . . All these things shall be DISSOLVED.”
Revelation 21:1 & 5 — But “He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.”
Psalms 37:11 & Matthew 5:5 —The blessed redeemed “shall inherit the earth,” the earth made new.
Isaiah 65:17, 21-25 — The redeemed will build houses, plant vineyards, and enjoy the New Earth.
Isaiah 66:22-23 — On the glorious New Earth, we will come to worship God from one Sabbath to another.

Hello again..... Brothers and Sisters

Most of the SDA books have sold and now the Lord is leading me once again down another path!

Im am making my entire Christian book library available for sale or for donation when necessary.

Heres the link to them, browse around and may the Lord bless and keep you!

John

https://sites.google.com/site/johnsbookcellar/

I liked your number 4 point here Woody.

Looking for 3 vol. leather bound EGW Book collection. Has 55 books.

Had a Bible with EGW comments. Bible matched 3 volumes.

Thanks.

dana

Looking for Eric B Hare's Silver and the snake story. Don't know what book it's in. Anyone know?

ChapelMusic.com has Vol.1 (audio) which includes the story $7.92 or you can purchase MP3 just the story for .99 Nuff Sed

Good Question. I don't know. Would it be "Jungle Stories"?

GARY

i hope you find it

dgrimm60

GARY

maybe you could go to google and see if you can find out

dgrimm60

I've got that one here and I think you're right.I'll check it out later.