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#32076 - 03/18/05 06:29 AM Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict"
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
Hope nobody minds me starting this chapter. I’m anxious to keep moving along. This is a really good book. Sorry, I don’t know how to create a link to the actual chapter.


It’s in this chapter that Jesus becomes aware that things aren’t what they should be. He is now realizing that there’s a serious problem with religion. He looks at the roadmap, then looks around. Everyone’s lost. Unfortunately, most don’t even know they’re lost, and of course, even if they momentarily realize it, they refuse to ask directions, since they are too proud. After all, they’re too important to ask directions, especially from a peasant. What would people think? Jesus is the only one who sees it clearly, because he has memories of another life.

The religion was detoured, too, because it had morphed into a distortion and perversion of the original model. What was the original model? God told Moses to make a box-like tent in the wilderness, a place where he would meet with mankind. This was a teensy-weensy human-sized model of something very big, something very far away.

This little miniature human sanctuary functioned as an object lesson to teach puny little earthlings what was happening in the Real Sanctuary. In the Real Sanctuary, requests to delete evil from human life records are stored, in the Altar of Incense structure, I believe. In another location, perhaps miles away, human’s life records are stored after they pass on and their spirit returns to the Sanctuary and downloads their memories for storage. This I believe occurs in the Altar of Sacrifice structure.

Unfortunately, missing from the Temple in Jesus’ day were the original furnishings crafted in Moses’ and Solomon’s time. In place of the Ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy Place, above which God spoke to the great assemblies on the Sea of Glass in the Kingdom of the Stars in the Real Sanctuary, was a common rock. The high priest would take his little hanging incense burner and swing it over the rock on the Day of Atonement. He had, I’m sure, no clue that it symbolized the transfer of requests to remove sin from one’s life record from the Altar of Incense to the Ark of the Covenant, the place of final judgment of life records.

But the meanings behind the symbols were all forgotten, lost to history. It was now a play, complete with actors, and of course, many new rules. Those who liked bossing other people around got to be the Keepers of Religion. They may have thought they were doing God a favor by being the Enforcers of the Rules, but of course, they didn’t have the slightest clue about what was truth. Their rules and traditions became equal with the scriptures.

Jesus looked at their pathetic little rules, and their pathetic little existence. His memories were downloaded into a tiny human body, memories of a powerful extraterrestrial civilization. He had stood on the Sea of Glass looking up at his Father hovering above the Ark of the Covenant, speaking to the great assemblies. He had known Satan and helped drive him out. He had seen technology no primitive human could even dream about, and now they were trying to tell him to obey their ridiculous little stand-up, sit-down, turn-around, wash-your-hands ceremonies. The Keepers of Religion were on a power trip, exultant when they could make people obey their rules, furious when they couldn’t.

We need to look at the principles of the Sanctuary service, the key to our understanding of our existence and afterlife, then compare it with our religion of today. Of course, we no longer must sacrifice animals and splash their blood on an altar, but are we teaching the same principles, that no sins can remain on our life record without facing destruction? Are we participating in pageants and fables in our worship services, or, are we teaching/showing others what they need to do to participate in the Kingdom of the Stars?

Thank you for listening. I just think that understanding the Sanctuary is the key to understanding true religion. That should be our focus. Forget Paul. He was either a crack head or was eating strange mushrooms when he wrote those letters. Somehow, they were turned into the Word of God. Sorry, it upsets me to read them.

GT

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#32077 - 03/18/05 08:17 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
cricket Offline


Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4766
Days of Conflict

[I'm a bit confused as to why you feel Paul's letters shouldn't be canonical.]

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#32078 - 03/18/05 09:50 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
Quote:

We need to look at the principles of the Sanctuary service, the key to our understanding of our existence and afterlife, then compare it with our religion of today. Of course, we no longer must sacrifice animals and splash their blood on an altar, but are we teaching the same principles, that no sins can remain on our life record without facing destruction? Are we participating in pageants and fables in our worship services, or, are we teaching/showing others what they need to do to participate in the Kingdom of the Stars?

Thank you for listening. I just think that understanding the Sanctuary is the key to understanding true religion. That should be our focus. Forget Paul. He was either a crack head or was eating strange mushrooms when he wrote those letters. Somehow, they were turned into the Word of God. Sorry, it upsets me to read them.

GT




Amen and amen! I LOVE your perspective. PLEASE keep posting and do NOT rob us of your talent and insight! What keys to understanding the Sanctuary would you like to share? I'm all ears (eyes)!!!
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32079 - 03/19/05 12:39 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
cricket Offline


Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4766
I've completed the Sanctuary honor for Pathfindering. Its a new one. Check it out for some cool insight! Pathfinders Online Forum

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#32080 - 03/19/05 03:05 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: CaregiverDee]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
I know most of the basic stuff -- the basic layout, what each section represents, etc. For example: the outer court has the altar of sacrifice and the laver; the holy place has the table of shewbread, the altar of incense, and the sevenfold lampstand; the most holy place has the mercy seat w/ the cherubim and the ark of the covenant; inside the ark is manna, aaron's rod that budded, and the 10c's. A veil separated the holy from the most holy place and that veil was rent in twain without human hands at the moment Jesus died on the cross. Each part of the sanctuary corresponds to a type of devotional activity (daily worship), e.g. confessing sin (altar), asking for cleansing (laver), intercession for others (incense), time with the Word (shewbread), witnessing/doing good works (lampstand), and time of intimacy with God (Most Holy Place), listening to Him and lingering in His presence.

I also know that the True Tabernacle exists in a higher dimension and is constructed not of material nor of space but of time, or at least, of that "fabric" of which the "cloth" we call "time" is cut for our measure. This is because the Scripture states that the heaven, even the highest of heavens, cannot contain God, how much less houses made with human hands.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32081 - 03/19/05 03:08 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
Quote:

Rigid rules were prescribed for every act, down to the smallest details of life. Under the synagogue teachers the youth were instructed in the countless regulations which as orthodox Israelites they were expected to observe. But Jesus did not interest Himself in these matters. From childhood He acted independently of the rabbinical laws....

As the condition of the people began to open to His mind, He saw that the requirements of society and the requirements of God were in constant collision. Men were departing from the word of God, and exalting theories of their own invention. They were observing traditional rites that possessed no virtue. Their service was a mere round of ceremonies; the sacred truths it was designed to teach were hidden from the worshipers. He saw that in their faithless services they found no peace. They did not know the freedom of spirit that would come to them by serving God in truth.




In truth, this is much the way truth is rediscovered and regenerated with each new generation. This is how I felt and came to observe when I was a teenager, how I thought about churches and religion that I saw around me, etc.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32082 - 03/19/05 03:24 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
Quote:

His presence brought a purer atmosphere into the home, and His life was as leaven working amid the elements of society. Harmless and undefiled, He walked among the thoughtless, the rude, the uncourteous; amid the unjust publicans, the reckless prodigals, the unrighteous Samaritans, the heathen soldiers, the rough peasants, and the mixed multitude. He spoke a word of sympathy here and a word there, as He saw men weary, yet compelled to bear heavy burdens. He shared their burdens, and repeated to them the lessons He had learned from nature, of the love, the kindness, the goodness of God.

He taught all to look upon themselves as endowed with precious talents, which if rightly employed would secure for them eternal riches. He weeded all vanity from life, and by His own example taught that every moment of time is fraught with eternal results; that it is to be cherished as a treasure, and to be employed for holy purposes. He passed by no human being as worthless, but sought to apply the saving remedy to every soul. In whatever company He found Himself, He presented a lesson that was appropriate to the time and the circumstances. He sought to inspire with hope the most rough and unpromising, setting before them the assurance that they might become blameless and harmless, attaining such a character as would make them manifest as the children of God. Often He met those who had drifted under Satan's control, and who had no power to break from his snare. To such a one, discouraged, sick, tempted, and fallen, Jesus would speak words of tenderest pity, words that were needed and could be understood. Others He met who were fighting a hand-to-hand battle with the adversary of souls. These He encouraged to persevere, assuring them that they would win; for angels of God were on their side, and would give them the victory. Those whom He thus helped were convinced that here was One in whom they could trust with perfect confidence. He would not betray the secrets they poured into His sympathizing ear.




I love that part. Let's play that again ...

Often He met those who had drifted under Satan's control, and who had no power to break from his snare. To such a one, discouraged, sick, tempted, and fallen, Jesus would speak words of tenderest pity, words that were needed and could be understood.

That is how Jesus responds to someone discouraged, sick, tempted, fallen, even under Satan's control.

Not harsh words. NOT reproving words. NOT rebuking words. NOT shaming, finger-wagging, chastizing words. Nope, nope, nope.

Words of tenderest pity that are needed and can be understood.

If you don't mind, I just want to sit here and hold that thought for a good long time.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32083 - 03/19/05 06:28 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Sid Offline


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1222
Loc: CA
Quote:

Forget Paul. He was either a crack head or was eating strange mushrooms when he wrote those letters. Somehow, they were turned into the Word of God. Sorry, it upsets me to read them.




Hey now, if Paul was eating shrooms or smokin something, I want to take a hit of whatever he was on, because his writings have been a real blessing in my life.

1 Cor 13 has produced real fruit in the relationship I have with my gf (this alone is a miracle, considering how much we used to fight). And what in the world would we do without 1 Cor 10:13? That promise has been essential for my survival. So yeah, Paul's the man.

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#32084 - 03/20/05 12:41 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: lastsupper]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
Sid you have a g/f? I'm well and truly crushed.

Gonna go sulk now --

N .
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32085 - 03/20/05 02:59 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Sid Offline


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1222
Loc: CA
No you're not! That was really sweet of you to say though.

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#32086 - 03/20/05 05:45 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: lastsupper]
Sid Offline


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1222
Loc: CA
Quote:

To those who were in need He would give a cup of cold water, and would quietly place His own meal in their hands.




I love these details written about His life. Although I am unable to comprehend the extent of His love, I am so thankful that our God is like this. We're so fortunate.

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#32087 - 03/20/05 05:52 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: lastsupper]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
Sorry I said Paul was a stoner, I was just getting a bit emotional. What he did say was:

Quote:

"We are not under law, but under grace."




Which is true in a sense, but has been misinterpreted by many to bury the 10 C's, a grave mistake.

Suppose someone printed out some of these posts, we all died, then 2,000 years later we woke up and found our posts turned into:

The Gospel According to Nicodema
The Letters of Sid
The 23 Words of Christine
The Revelation of St. Gary the Divine

Someone lifted some private letters of Paul's, not that there weren't some good ideas in them, along with the bad, and decided to make them the Holy, Inerrant Word of God. I'm still mystified.


I just had a thought today, that the table of showbread in the Earthly Tabernacle represents some kind of really big table in the Sanctuary on the Sea of Glass. If it's in the banquet room, I hope they have cantaloupes. Or maybe even virtual cantaloupes would be OK, as long as they're not overripe.

I'd like to thank Christine for the links to the Sanctuary honor. I will check them out. One of them indicated that the different colors represented certain attributes.

The essence of true Christianity is in this chapter. It's all we need, it's all the world needs. Our mission, as Christians, if we accept it, is to relieve suffering, encourage the discouraged, help the needy, feed the hungry, visit those in prison, and say "Amen" to special music every Sabbath. I see these people at shopping centers with cardboard signs saying "Will work for food." What can I do for them? Some of them really look brain-damaged.

Quote:

The Chicken and the Eagle

Once I was a chicken
I pecked around in the garbage
Looking for something to eat.
I was always hungry.

Now, I’m an eagle.
I can soar high and far.
I’ve won many battles,
And I’ll win many more.
I can see forever.
I looked into heaven and saw the face of God.

Are you lost, little bird?
Are you cold, wet, and scared?
I have big wings.
I’ll spread them out for you.
There, you can find shelter from the wind and the rain.






GT


Edited by Aliensanctuary (03/20/05 06:20 AM)

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#32088 - 03/20/05 05:56 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
Quote:

I also know that the True Tabernacle exists in a higher dimension and is constructed not of material nor of space but of time, or at least, of that "fabric" of which the "cloth" we call "time" is cut for our measure. This is because the Scripture states that the heaven, even the highest of heavens, cannot contain God, how much less houses made with human hands.




ND, is this something Paul said?

Quote:

and I saw a table of pure silver, it was many miles in length, yet our eyes could extend over it.



Quote:

I saw the Father rise from the throne, and in a flaming Chariot go into the Holy of Holies, within the veil, and did sit.



Quote:

And I saw a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, and Angels were all around it as it came where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the Holiest where the Father sat.




Curious statements about the Sanctuary, are they not?

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#32089 - 03/21/05 05:54 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Jerry D Thomas Offline
Adventist Author

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Texas
This is my favorite passage from Chapter 9 (Messiah). The idea that "every moment can influence eternity" that "every moment is a treasure" is a powerful one.

"He taught people that they had been given precious talents. His own life showed that every moment can influence eternity, that every moment is a treasure to be spent making someone’s life better and heaven more real. To Jesus, no human was worthless. He gave hope to the roughest, most unpromising people, assuring them that they could become gentle, obedient children of God. When He met those who had fallen completely under Satan’s control with no hope of escape, He offered help with gentle kindness. He encouraged those He found bravely fighting against Satan and evil, promising them that the angels fighting beside them made victory certain. The people He helped found that they could trust Him completely".

Jerry D Thomas

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#32090 - 03/22/05 01:55 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
For the love of others is the source of everything good.

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#32091 - 03/22/05 05:25 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
"I used to be such a sweet, sweet thing
Till they got ahold of me."

-- Alice Cooper
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32092 - 03/22/05 06:17 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
OK, it's done. My tears have dried up, mostly.

I'd like to apologize to everyone here for polluting your discussion, and for slandering the honor of Paul the Apostle.

I'm ready to be a Christian, now. I've been wanting to study DA for a long time. For the last 6 months I've carried the book around in my briefcase. I just couldn't open it.

Now I'm reading your quotes from it. It's what I need. It's what I want to be. It's what everyone needs.

I once dreamed that I loved everyone in the world for 2 seconds. For that 2 seconds, I was blind to their evil. I know Jesus isn't blind to our evil, but somehow he can block it and see what we really need.

For the past year or so I have been studying intensely the Sanctuary, the Apocalypse, and the close encounters of the third kind in the Bible, trying to connect the dots. That's why I use the handle Aliensanctuary.

I recently pictured myself standing on the Sea of Glass, looking up at God on his huge throne/mountain/pyramid thing with gigantic wheels underneath and a round canopy-like thing overhead. I was jumping up and down in a wild celebration, but I was really small and everyone around me was much taller, so I had to jump really high. God was the bright light at the apex of this mountain on wheels. I wasn't one of the 144,000, but it was OK for me to be there because I was one of the overcomers from our world.

It's OK for me to pray, now. I haven't been able to for the most part for a long time. Now I know who I can pray to, the God of Shaw-mah-yim, heaven, that is, whose voice thunders from on top of his mountain and reverberates from the surfaces of the 24 other throne/mountain/pyramid things surrounding him.

Thank you for letting me speak about some of the things on my mind, and again, I'm sorry about the garbage coming out of my mouth. There's no one around here whom I can talk about these things to, that I know, and I have to get rid of it, somehow. Special thanks to Nico, whose been writing to me on the side, just being a friend.


Gary

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#32093 - 03/22/05 05:24 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Sid Offline


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1222
Loc: CA
Wow Gary, no apology necessary. You were just expressing your opinion, as I was expressing mine. I'm glad you're here, you have a lot of helpful input and insight that I am learning from!

Peace,

Sid

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#32094 - 03/22/05 05:30 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Sid Offline


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1222
Loc: CA
Quote:

This is my favorite passage from Chapter 9 (Messiah). The idea that "every moment can influence eternity" that "every moment is a treasure" is a powerful one.

"He taught people that they had been given precious talents. His own life showed that every moment can influence eternity, that every moment is a treasure to be spent making someone’s life better and heaven more real. To Jesus, no human was worthless. He gave hope to the roughest, most unpromising people, assuring them that they could become gentle, obedient children of God. When He met those who had fallen completely under Satan’s control with no hope of escape, He offered help with gentle kindness. He encouraged those He found bravely fighting against Satan and evil, promising them that the angels fighting beside them made victory certain. The people He helped found that they could trust Him completely".




This is very reassuring! "...made victory certain." We are not alone in our struggles, and our victory is certain!

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#32095 - 03/23/05 05:26 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Sid Offline


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1222
Loc: CA
Quote:

"I used to be such a sweet, sweet thing
Till they got ahold of me."

-- Alice Cooper




You'll always be a sweet sweet thing.

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#32096 - 03/23/05 05:38 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
Quote:

OK, it's done. My tears have dried up, mostly ...

It's OK for me to pray, now. I haven't been able to for the most part for a long time....




Wow, what happened to you Gary??

Quote:

Thank you for letting me speak about some of the things on my mind, and again, I'm sorry about the garbage coming out of my mouth. There's no one around here whom I can talk about these things to, that I know, and I have to get rid of it, somehow. Special thanks to Nico, whose been writing to me on the side, just being a friend.





Well PLEASE share with us whatever is on your mind or heart, and please NEVER EVER GO AWAY!!!
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Gary }}}}}}}}}}}}}} <--- that's a cyber-hug in case you didn't know.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32097 - 03/23/05 11:19 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
cricket Offline


Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4766
Gary,

I'm with Nico on this one. Please, share if you feel comfortable enough with us. I'm slow to respond to these posts in our DA thread--I feel as if I'm the least intellectual around here. It doesn't mean I don't care, though.

Just an aside, I had to take a good hard look at myself when I read "23 Words from Christine". Had to ask, "Wow, is that all I have to say?" Pretty lame.

Maybe I'll speak up a bit more!
~Chrys

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#32098 - 03/23/05 03:14 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: CaregiverDee]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
p.s. Gary if it is any consolation, I'm not always convinced Paul's rougher edges belong as sacred writ either.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32099 - 03/24/05 03:54 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
The crisis is passed. I'm OK. I thought I was a good looking person, but then I read your quotes, looked in the mirror, and saw that I looked like I was hundreds of years old, deep wrinkles, huge nose and ears, sagging cheeks, no teeth, no hair, nearly blind, nearly deaf, bent up and crippled. It was a tremendous shock.

Next to Jesus, I'm a bag of garbage. I'm not doing any of the things he was doing, even at a young age. All I can remember are all the nasty little things I did. It really cut me to the heart, all the good I could have done, but instead, did the opposite.

One of my longtime problems with religion has been not being able to visualize God. No vision equals no power to resist evil, no understanding of the majestic earth-shaking reality that God is. No vision equals little or no attempts to imitate Jesus because I'm drunk, staggering senseless because of my own selfishness and stony, mean little heart.

You've really hit the nail on the head:

The only thing that will transform people from garbage into gemstones is for them to look carefully at the life of Jesus and listen to him forgive them, if they only ask. Nothing else can pull them up from the gutter, which is where we all start out from.

A number of Bible characters encountered the extraterrestrial angels first hand, often a shocking experience, but all we have are a few words on paper. How would our lives change if we had an encounter with an angel, also?

The best I could come up with is to envision God, blazing away on his fiery throne on the Sea of Glass, so bright a human would vaporize in an instant, whose unseen power extends throughout the universe. If we can just visualize ourselves standing below him, listening to his thunderous voice welcoming us, maybe it's enough to keep us from falling back into the pit, again and again, when we are tempted to think or do evil.

It's the 7 spirits before his throne that connect us to him, to Jesus, and to each other. Before Jesus could make decisions for himself, it was Mary's motherly prayers, and her tender love, that kept him from getting the virus of evil. That's why she was chosen, because she was connected to God.

I think that's how it will work with the 144,000. 144,000 mothers will protect their little babies from being infected with evil. No religion today can produce even one of the 144,000. Something radical has to happen. There has to be a vision of God on his majestic throne.


You know that I love all of you as friends, too. I wish I could meet you and those of you who are reading this topic, too.

And Christine, you know the saying,

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

The world needs less talkers and more doers. Once some of us spend a lot of time trying to figure out what to say, then maybe we can do something, too. By the way, I'v e got a little story about a lamb who falls into a pigpen and gets rescued by a man dressed in white. Would you like me to send it to you? It would make a great children's story.

Thanks to all of you for helping me to see myself better, tough to take, but it's like medicine: unpleasant at first, but it's for your own good.

Gary

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#32100 - 03/24/05 04:47 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
At the risk of totally missing the mark here ...

I too am devastated when I look at myself, when I realize all the evil I have done or even more striking, the good I have neglected to do. Just today I was devastated all over again by what had to have been the nineteen-thousand, seven hundred and twenty-sixth time I'd contemplated how as a mother I have so failed my children spiritually by not bringing them up to know Jesus Christ nor even really to have any sort of spiritual moorings whatsoever. What am I going to say to God in the judgment over that? I have nothing to say. There's nothing to be said. Every mouth will be stopped before Him and all the world guilty before Him. Including mine and me.

What will He say to me? I don't know. I anticipate something like, "you should have thought of that beforehand." Something like was spoken to the man who buried his one talent in the ground, though I hope I shall not be so foolish as to accuse God in that day of responsibility for what I failed to do.

I don't know what to say so I will just shut up now ...
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32101 - 03/24/05 04:47 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Sid Offline


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1222
Loc: CA
Gary, I'm glad you're okay. If I may ask, what made you so upset?

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#32102 - 03/24/05 05:12 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
cricket Offline


Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4766
Quote:

What will He say to me? I don't know. I anticipate something like, "you should have thought of that beforehand."




The story of the prodigal son shows us what a loving father will say when his children come home to him. I have always felt that God would be as merciful. I don't think He'll question where we've been, or tell us what we should have been doing. I just picture Him as opening His arms, crying tears of joy, and welcoming us home.

For whatever reasons, God allows things to happen in His own time. Through faith, perhaps, we can rest assured that in time, His will will be done. And, ultimately, isn't His will the best one?!

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#32103 - 03/24/05 05:15 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: CaregiverDee]
cricket Offline


Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4766
Quote:

By the way, I'v e got a little story about a lamb who falls into a pigpen and gets rescued by a man dressed in white. Would you like me to send it to you? It would make a great children's story.





Sounds great! If you don't have a problem with sharing it online PM me, or post it here.

Children love stories, and I love to tell them ones that have a real purpose. I have one (that's in my head...never written it down really) about that wooly lamb they found about a year ago that had never been sheared (shorn?). Let's swap!

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#32104 - 03/24/05 07:06 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
Quote:

I too am devastated when I look at myself, when I realize all the evil I have done or even more striking, the good I have neglected to do.




If Satan and his forces of evil were not around to torment and harass and separate you from God, your life would have been different. When we truly connect to God, all of the evil we done and repented of gets transferred to Satan's life record. He will just have to burn a little longer while the evil acts and thoughts he made you do are converted into energy.

Quote:

Gary, I'm glad you're okay. If I may ask, what made you so upset?




It was the deep conviction that even though I''ve made a lot of progress spiritually, garbage was still coming out of my mouth, I couldn't pray, I wasn't doing any of the things Jesus did, just the opposite, and for some reason I couldn't read DA, maybe because something I really needed was in there and I was resisting.

Quote:

Children love stories, and I love to tell them ones that have a real purpose. I have one (that's in my head...never written it down really) about that wooly lamb they found about a year ago that had never been sheared (shorn?). Let's swap!




Sure. I'll pop it in here.

Quote:

The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen

Once there was a lamb, a frisky, happy little lamb, who was usually pretty good. He lived with his father and mother and brothers and sisters out in the country. On his way to lamb school every day he had to pass by a pigpen, a very large one.

“Stay away from there,” his father and mother both warned, “because it’s a very dangerous place.”

Sometimes he would sneak over and climb a tree next to the fence where he could watch all the fun going on inside. There were slime fights and chases and wallows, and all sorts of adult drinks, adult parties, adult movies, and loud music.

One day he accidentally slipped from an overhanging branch into the pigpen.

“Oh Oh,” he said as he looked all around, “I don’t know how to get back out. The fence is too high for me to climb.” He sighed. The cool, squishy muck felt so good to his hot, tired little feet. After a while, he went straight to the middle and decided to have a little fun and roll around in the mud and the slop. Soon, he was covered from head to foot with all that nasty stuff.

“This is so much fun!” he squealed.

A very large pig came over to him and said, “Hey, you must be new here. Put this on so no one will notice.”

The large pig handed the lamb a scruffy looking pigskin, complete with a hollowed out pig’s head. When the lamb put it on, it was too loose, and the head slipped off to one side. The very large pig cinched the skin on tightly with a strap around his middle so that it would not fall off.

The lamb still had fun, though, and never failed to join in the festivities. This went on for some time, until one day he found himself in a corner near a beautiful watering trough painted white, with a tall, white pole next to it.

“Clean water!” the lamb shouted. “I am sooo thirsty.”

When he bent down to drink, he saw his own reflection and bleated in fright. “Is that really me?” he asked himself in disbelief at the mud-covered image.

He wanted to wash so badly that he jumped right in and washed until he was more or less clean, although the nasty pigskin still hung around his middle. Rejoicing, he found a place nearby where conditions were a little nicer. He liked it there and made regular trips to quench his thirst and wash off after partying out in the middle.

As time went on, though, the more he washed, the dirtier the water became. When the water began to taste like pigpen, he stopped going to the watering trough with the tall white pole.
“I can’t drink this water any more, or wash up in it either, he said. “It’s too dirty.”

The muddy water was of no use to him any more. He sat there in his corner for a long time, looking at the white watering trough and pole, waiting for something to happen.

One day a tall stranger came to the pigpen. He was so clean, dressed in a long white robe. The lamb really liked him. The stranger opened a little gate that the lamb hadn’t noticed before and came in carrying a shovel. He proceeded to dig a pit, a very deep one. Then he filled it with clear, cold water. It took a lot of water to fill it.

When it was filled, the stranger climbed to the top of the mountain of dirt behind the pit and called out, “If anyone wants to wash up and leave this pigpen, come to me.”

Quite a crowd gathered to listen to the stranger as he talked about a better way of life where everyone could be clean, forever. Some were laughing and making fun of the stranger and those who wanted to leave the pigpen. Some just couldn’t seem to decide what they wanted.

“Jump into the water if you want to get out of here!” the friendly stranger called out.

The lamb was afraid. He turned around to look at the pigpen. There were some of his old friends not far away. They were having a good time throwing slime at each other. “Come on over and join in the fun!” they called out. “That waterhole looks sooo boring.”

The lamb turned back to look at the stranger.

“There’s another world beyond this gate,” the stranger said, “a world of beauty and purity. All you need to do is jump in. The water is friendly. It’s alive.”

That made the lamb more afraid than ever, but he knew he had to do it or die. “I'm always dirty, and this pigskin strapped around my middle is really bothering me,” he thought.

He finally made his decision.

“I’m coming!” he shouted as he pushed his way to the edge of the pit. After he closed his eyes and jumped, he went all the way to the bottom. It was so cold and dark down there.

“So this is death,” he thought.

Then he felt a strong hand take hold of him and pull him up and out. All he could do was shiver and gasp for breath and look up at the stranger who pulled him out. The disgusting pigskin was no longer tied to his back, and now his soft, curly wool was as white as snow again.

The stranger led the lamb through the little gate where he found himself looking down a long, straight, narrow road. Everything on this side was so crystal clear: The sky was a living blue, the grass and trees a living green. The sun was so bright he couldn’t bear to look at it. He looked back at the pigpen. Just above it was a blanket of fog, and the clouds above that were thick and heavy.

“I used to like that dark, smelly place, he said as he looked up at the stranger. “I don’t ever want to go back there again.”

“This is the road to Life,” the stranger said. “Whoever travels this road to the Land of God will live forever.”

The lamb noticed the stranger’s hands, then his feet. Now he understood who the stranger was, and he fell down at his feet. He knew what it cost the stranger to come to the pigpen to show him the only way out.

“Father and Mother told me about you a long time ago,” the lamb said, “but I stopped believing their stories.”

After the stranger went back through the gate into the pigpen, the lamb began to walk down the narrow road. From time to time he saw places where a wide road crossed the narrow one. At each intersection there were big signs pointing down the wide roads, some with flashing lights, telling of a place to go to have some real fun.

“I know where those roads go,” he said. “They all go back to the pigpen.”

So, for the rest of his days, he stayed on the straight and narrow road, until he reached the Land of God. There he lived happily, forever, and found his father and mother and brothers and sisters and many other little boy and girl lambs just like himself.





Gary

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#32105 - 03/24/05 09:00 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
Probably should include the copyright info from the above:

The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen

Copyright © 1991 by Gary Tjaden

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#32106 - 03/24/05 10:31 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
Quote:

Quote:

I too am devastated when I look at myself, when I realize all the evil I have done or even more striking, the good I have neglected to do.




If Satan and his forces of evil were not around to torment and harass and separate you from God, your life would have been different.




I wonder if you have any idea how much literal truth there is in what you are saying. Why does Satan obsess over me so much? Especially considering he's already essentially destroyed me and made me worthless to God, to others, and to myself. What effort could he possibly make now that he has not already expended?

Quote:

When we truly connect to God ...




Forgive me for sounding bitter, jaded, and cynical, but "when" ... yeah, whenever THAT happens. And WHEN will that be, exactly??? Oh that's right, I forgot, it's right now if I just push the right button. You know, the one I have no access to.

Sorry -- I'm not "venting" at you Gary but at years of spiritual garbage blaming me for what I'm not able to do for myself -- connect myself to God and save myself. Yes, I guess I am quite bitter about it all. I don't care if anyone wants to condemn or judge me for that. I am what I am, if I could change it I would have done so already, and I don't need any useless guilt trips over it. There's no guilt trip anyone can put me on that has the power to destroy me faster than my own pain already does, so I don't want to hear all that social darwinist bootstrap crap packaged as pseudochristianity (and I'm only saying this here and now because I'm confident no one HERE would try to hand it to me anyway).
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32107 - 03/24/05 10:32 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
Enjoyed your parable by the way! I have one I wrote once about the tainted well but it was a Thelemic parable, not a Christian one.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32108 - 03/25/05 03:56 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
God {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Nico }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Gary {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Nico }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Sid {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Nico }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Christine {{{{{{{{{{{{ Nico }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Jerry {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Nico }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Jesus {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Nico }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
and so on...a really big group hug for Nico!

NEVER GIVE UP! Nico.

We've all got a garbage can dragging along behind us. If we keep digging through the garbage, we look down and lose sight of something really beautiful. No garbage here on this garbage can of a world is worth losing the treasure of another life full of wonder, free of evil. We just have to keep looking up, even though our old garbage keeps coming around and hitting us in the face, even though the evil spirits of our past keep tormenting us.


There's a brilliant light coming from the top of God's mountain/throne in his Sanctuary among the stars. The light is from God, the most powerful being in the universe. He's connected to everything, even the little birds. He's connected to you. He knows your pain, your regrets, your self-condemnation.

The Network Administrator of the Universe says,

"I'm going to destroy all of your damaged sectors and give you a new hard drive. I will delete your corrupted data and write a new program, a special one, just for you. I'm going to bring you online into my network where there are no more viruses, no more crashes, no more spam, no ghost memories to haunt you, and you will live with me happily ever after."

Don't be a pickle, Nico.

If you ever give up, we're all going to get mad at you.
So don't give up, then, and we can all be happy together.

Gary

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#32109 - 03/25/05 06:30 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
Nicodema Offline


Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
You did it now ... you HAD to say it, didn't you? ... Now I want a pickle. Doggone it ...!
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot

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#32110 - 03/25/05 06:40 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
cricket Offline


Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4766
Give her the pickle!

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#32111 - 03/26/05 03:03 PM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
tbyrd Offline


Registered: 12/24/03
Posts: 1
Loc: Maine
Paul was human as are you and I, and he erred many times in his faith, but he kept his eyes on Jesus, and he had faith and trust in his Lord.I am sure he will be in Heaven, as I pray we will all be!
Won,t it be wonderful when we are face to face with Jesus, and we can spend eternity asking him questions, about all the deciples, and about anything else we choose to ask him??



Imelda


Edited by tbyrd (03/26/05 03:05 PM)
_________________________
Happy to be a member.

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#32112 - 03/27/05 05:16 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: Procopius]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
Thank you for your input Imelda, I totally agree, and am pleased to meet you.

As far as pickles go, PickleDema and PickleChrys, there are sweet ones and there are tart ones, aka Dills. When pickles were first invented, there were only sweet ones, but then a nasty virus mutated some of them into the mean and evil tasting Dills.

It's the Dills who have caused all the problems in this life. Someday, there will be no more Dills, and everyone will be Sweet. So we have to make a choice, are we going to be Sweet or Dill?

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#32113 - 03/27/05 06:07 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: ]
cricket Offline


Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4766
I choose Kosher Dill!

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#32114 - 03/27/05 10:17 AM Re: Chapter 9 "Days of Conflict" [Re: CaregiverDee]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
You're funny, DillyChrys, in a sweet kind of way.

See ya at the next chapter.

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