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Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.
And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with
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#34171 - 04/03/05 04:35 AM 17. The Gift of Prophecy:
Stan Jensen Administrator Offline
Carpe Diem!!!

Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 3441
Loc: 49.05° Lat- 122.3° Long
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an
identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As
the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which
provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that
the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29;
Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

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#34172 - 05/22/05 10:44 PM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: Halfstep Denise]
bevin Offline


Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 4699
Loc: New England
http://www.atoday.com/Story.6+M58fb9c9decb.0.html

Quote:


This strongly suggests that dissociative religious experiences are interesting historically and psychologically but irrelevant philosophically and theologically. No falsehood is made true because it flows from an dissociative religious experience and no truth is made false because it doesn’t. As Paul of Tarsus made clear in one of the earliest Christian letters, we are to test all assertions, even those made by prophets, and we are to retain only that which passes our examinations. We are to accept no assertion on the basis of sheer authority, even if the one who makes it acts in strange and awesome ways.





Quote:

When we think about it calmly and candidly, many of us can admit that the life and writings of Ellen White have helped us in some ways and hurt us in others, partly because of the way others have used her comments but also partly because of what she actually said and did. Our mission, if we choose to accept it, is to recognize this as a fact of our lives, make the most of what we find helpful in her writings and leave the rest on the shelf, seeking only to be willing to learn from a complex and accomplished woman who lived in a time and place that was very different from our own. In my view, Ann Taves’ Fits, Trances and Visions: Experiencing Religion and Explaining Experience from Wesley to James can inform and inspire us as we travel together on the interesting and very important journey we call life.




/Bevin

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#34173 - 05/24/05 01:03 PM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: Mandy]
wicklunds Offline


Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 993
Loc: In the heart of SDA culturevil...
These quotes are exactly why I avoid Atoday...
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It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4}

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#34174 - 05/25/05 12:53 AM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: Mandy]
Amelia Administrator Offline
Here Forever, by Request :)

Registered: 07/30/01
Posts: 17817
Loc: Out standing in a field
bevin, that link is dead.
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"Earth - insane asylum for the universe." - Maxine

" Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him..."1 John 2:15-16

Fairview Or

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#108837 - 01/09/07 07:26 AM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: Amelia]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
This is VERY GOOD. "make the most of what we find helpful in her writings and leave the rest on the shelf"

Thank you for posting it.

I think we could all learn a lot about Ellen White if we put this to practice.

Ellen White is a Prophet ... she is not a perfect saint.

God has used all kinds of people to be prophets. He even used a Donkey .

The MAJORITY of Ellen White's writings are unauthorized. She did NOT want them printed. They were mostly "individual" counseling to INDIVIDUALS. She knew they would be abused if published for the general public. Yet that is what we have done. When her writings are not in context they are dangerous. They are clearly abused because of this.

If we had to read what ALL that the other prophets said in their entire lifetime ... we would be shocked and have to conclude that they said Many inaccurate things and that they clearly were not perfect saints. Well ... like all the others ... Ellen White was Fallible and human. Not all she said in her lifetime was inspired. She NEVER claimed to be infallible. She wanted us to check all that she said against the Bible and not study her in place of the Bible.
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#108840 - 01/09/07 07:57 AM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: Redwood]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
We as Adventists have to face up to the fact that Ellen White was not perfect. Not all of the prophecies from her visions came true. One of the tests of a Prophet is to check and see if the prophecies come true. Since some did not turn out as her visions indicated ... we have to conclude she was not always accurate.

So ... take what measures up to the Bible and throw out the rest. This was her counsel. Let us take her at her word.
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#150144 - 01/03/08 04:10 AM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: Redwood]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 463
Loc: Northern California
Those who put too much trust in fallible, erring human beings will end up being disappointed or disillusioned when they realize they may have been scammed by a wealthy or persuasive self-promoting propaganda machine.

It's unfortunate that EGW's ministry began more like a circus act than a real prophet's ministry. (Holding up a heavy Bible for hours while holding her breath, proven by holding mirrors under her nostrils.)

Any one of us can read the scriptures and try to convince others that our explanation is correct. We could also concoct visions and angelic visits to assign more importance to our ideas and opinions. The most important thing is, not who said what about anything, but, did we conduct ourselves as faithful servants by doing whatever our Master commanded us to do as written in the scriptures. Nothing else matters, really, if our goal is to enter the Kingdom of God in the next life.
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#171694 - 05/30/08 02:54 PM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: Stan Jensen]
nishaun Offline
One who listens, then responds intricately

Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 285
Loc: CT
This is a quote from a letter I gave to someone who was tryin to convince me that there could be no more prophets....

The problem with your point of understanding is that a prophet is just someone that gets a revelation that is not in the Bible, verbatim. ALL Christians need such revelations. You claim that God would never tell a prophet, like E.G. White, to build a church here or a school there. But ask yourself, does God give you "extra-biblical" information; you seem to be someone who would pray to God and ask him whether you should move your family here or take a job there. Where in the Bible does it tell you to move your family here, are you a false prophet, then? ALL Christians need new revelations. It is called having a personal relationship with God! God will always give new revelations, because God will always give you revelations.

He responded by saying he would never ask God a personal question, like if a job was right for him, I think that was a lie he told, he usually told lies and made stuff up when he lost an argument.

Read full letter



Edited by nishaun (05/30/08 02:55 PM)

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#171749 - 05/30/08 11:31 PM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: nishaun]
Pedja Offline
Am new here....

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2
Loc: UK
Quote:
As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.


I think we should rewrite No17 and cancel this sentence. Or at least the part in bold.

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#171769 - 05/31/08 02:34 AM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: Pedja]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: Pedja
Quote:
As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.


I think we should rewrite No17 and cancel this sentence. Or at least the part in bold.


What is your objection to this? I certainly don't see any fault in it. There are many authors who would fit in to this classification. I would like to propose that George Knight and Jon Paulien for certain would qualify. Are they not an ongoing source of truth? Are they not an authority on the Adventist subjects they write about? No need to stop with the two I mentioned. But, like I say ... many would qualify under this statement. So, I don't find it offensive or exclusive at all.
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#171840 - 05/31/08 11:18 AM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: Redwood]
Pedja Offline
Am new here....

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Redwood
Originally Posted By: Pedja
Quote:
As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.


I think we should rewrite No17 and cancel this sentence. Or at least the part in bold.


What is your objection to this? I certainly don't see any fault in it. There are many authors who would fit in to this classification. I would like to propose that George Knight and Jon Paulien for certain would qualify. Are they not an ongoing source of truth? Are they not an authority on the Adventist subjects they write about? No need to stop with the two I mentioned. But, like I say ... many would qualify under this statement. So, I don't find it offensive or exclusive at all.


The only problem I have with this statement is that it is not entirely true. When we say 'her writings are an authoritative source of truth' this implies that all her writings are an auth. source of truth. And some of her writings clearly do not fit in this category.

I also don’t understand your point about Jon Paulien. I do love his books and commentaries etc. but I don’t think it sounds right to say “The Bible is an authoritative source of truth” and “Jon Paulien is an authoritative source of truth”. And if you say “many would fit in to this classification” why then not mention them all and include them into our fundamentals?

My main concern is that we unnecessarily give non-Adventists the basis to attack this fundamental belief because it sounds that way, as if all her writings are a source of truth, and there’s just no need for this.


Edited by Pedja (05/31/08 11:19 AM)

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#171857 - 05/31/08 03:54 PM Re: 17. The Gift of Prophecy: [Re: Pedja]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
The only problem I have with this statement is that it is not entirely true. When we say 'her writings are an authoritative source of truth' this implies that all her writings are an auth. source of truth. And some of her writings clearly do not fit in this category.


I don't follow how you believe the statement implies that ALL of her writings are truth. I don't see that in the statement. OTOH .... her writings are "a" SOURCE of truth. There are many sources that are truth. Many commentaries on the Bible state truth. They are called 'sources'.

You state that some of her writings do not fit the category and I assume you mean 'truth'. I would agree with you and I am most certain that Ellen White would also. She never claimed to be infallible. And she cautioned us not to use her as such. Her purpose was to 'point' us to Truth. We are to find 'truth' in the Bible. That is our job.
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