Thank you for trusting us enough to share all that with us. Well ... I hope we are trustworthy enough.

We LOVE You

All I can do is pray that the church will find a way to love you and make up for the abuse that it has dumped on you.

Not all are like this. I do hope that you can find some good in the church. Please Please though. Find a NEW church. Don't go back to the abuse if you can possibly go elsewhere.

This treatment of you is an attempt by some to protect the old fundamental beliefs. What these people don't realize is that the beliefs are there ... even if we don't measure up. And the best way to have people drawn to the church is by LOVE ... NOT by oppressive dictatorship.

Remember ... God loves you just the way you are. HE is working in your life at His pace. At each step HE LOVEs you. He does not say to you ... "I can't love you if you have a wedding band on". That is evil talk from evil people. They are the ones who do not know God. For God is LOVE.

Hold you head up high. You are in the right. They are in the wrong. But, they do need love from a missionary. Can you be the missionary and love them despite the abuse? OR ... Do you need to find the support and love so that you can grow stronger before you take on such a challenge of ministry? I don't know. But being new in Christ ... I suspect that this is not the time to be a missionary to those "needy" people. Get yourself established before you tolerate such people. Let yourself be loved by those that have and demonstrate Christian love first. Then go back and witness to the abusers.

Please, FA, please abandon any contact with that bunch of people, and RUN-don't walk- to a DIFFERENT Adventist church. Even if you have to drive several miles to do so. This is NOT the true belief system of current Adventism.

And for some church "member" to take it upon himself to email you warning you you might not be "good enough" to become a member there: well, that's just baloney. Abandon them immediately. And shake the dust off your feet when you do so.

Honest. [That's actually a Biblical admonition: shaking the dust off your feet where the people do not follow Christian principles.]

God bless you.

Ok. I have to say more. I think my mean side is growing at this moment. Here is what you could do ...

You could tell these people that they need to study the Bible and become Christians. The Bible tells us that if we have something against someone ... we are to go to them in private and speak to them one on one.

What they have done by going to the Pastor is wrong and against the instructions of Matt.18

The term for what they have done is ... GOSSIP .

The Bible speaks very clearly about GOSSIP. It is one of the most destructive evils there is.

Also ... unless the Pastor directs these people to talk to you ... He/She is just as guilty. My wife is constantly having to direct people to not discuss these kinds of things with her. She puts a stop to it by telling them to approach the people they are concerned with.

This is the most effective way to stop gossip. And it is the correct Biblical way.

What you can do is to tell the Pastor how destructive gossip is and how you have been affected. Ask the Pastor to come up with ways to prevent it. Oh well ... maybe this Pastor is hopeless. Look at the church and what is going on !!!

But, I pray that God will give you strength to combat this evil. God be with you.

Experiences like this are about the most discouraging things there are. The way we treat each other in the church can be truly pitiful. I'm so sorry you are having a difficult time with this congregation. There is no excuse for what it going on there; it is the opposite of Christ-like. So sad, for you and for them. They are blind Pharisees, LOST and don't even realize it.

I tend to think Satan works hardest inside the church. If you stay there, you may still need to look elsewhere for your spiritual nourishment. You will only get discouraged and angry if you look at the people. Keep looking at Jesus. Keep searching and praying that God will lead you to people who will strengthen and encourage you. At the same time, search and pray for people that you can study with and encourage. That will help your own growth, as well.

It might be helpful for you to spend some time reading about the lives of Joseph, Moses, Paul, and others who had to put up with trials from dealing with people and how God intervened for them. I have seen God move obstacles in amazing ways, but sometimes we have to go through some fire first. I can see how you would be really wonderful at a ministry of nurturing new Christians because of what you are going through.

hmmm interesting discussion. Personally I think that if you accept the fundamental believes, that that is a sufficient basis to be baptised. These statements include health issues etc, but I think we should use logical thinking here. For example, it is better to go to the gym 3 times a week and drink 8 beers every sunday, than walking 5 minutes a day and drinking one beer. What goes out of the heart is wayyyy more important than that comes into the mouth. I think it is indeed wrong to be legalistically, you can t impose perfectness on a human being. People have to be nurtured and taught by the holy spirit so they can grow in Christ. Actually i think you should pray for the legalistic pastors, because the way you judge others will be the standard whereby you shall be judged and nobody is perfect. Personally I want to go to the States in 2 years or somethin like that and be baptised by Doug Bachelor, Shawn Boonstra or Pastor Bohr.

My pastor is compromising with me... Yay, I can keep my $40 wedding band!

Praise God !!

Does that make you a 40% Seventh day Adventist though?

I believe in Baptism... for I am baptized into Jesus Christ.

I can't wait until I become a member of the sda Church.

Praise God. Yes. We are baptized into Christ and not a denomination. Even though you aren't an SDA ... you ARE a Christian ... and THAT is what matters.

I was baptized when I was about 15 years old and the memories of the exact details of the procedure have long since become blurry.

But a couple of weeks ago we had a baptism at our church, and I listened carefully as I followed the proceedings.

It was abundantly clear that the candidates were being baptized into the SDA denomination. The pastor even made a statement to that effect. One of the baptismal vows clearly stated "I believe that the SDA church is the remnant church...(snip)...and it is my desire to join them."

Another of the things that the candidate must affirm in order to be baptized is that our denomination has the Spirit of Prophecy as manifested in the person and work of Ellen G. White.

Both of our candidates were lifelong Christians and were joining the SDA church from other Christian denominations. They had been baptized as children, so it was right to be re-baptized as adults now that they are old enough to make the decision for themselves.

But there is absolutely no provision, under our denominational rules, for a person to be baptized as a Christian without automatically joining the SDA church. Yes, I know, we make it look like we separate the two processes by waiting until the following Sabbath to formally accept the new member into membership, but the wording and the format of the baptismal vows and the baptismal ceremony makes it abundantly clear and unambiguous that by being baptized you are joining the SDA church.

I can see now why some of my Christian friends from other denominations accuse the SDA church of baptizing people "into the SDA denomination instead of into Christ", or "into a pool of doctrine", or worse still "baptized into Ellen White."

Since the baptism a couple of weeks ago, I have had the nagging feeling that I need to be baptized properly - that is, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, only, just as Jesus stated in the Bible - without a word or a hint of any other person, denomination, doctrine or creed as any part of the procedure. In order to do this I would need to find a pastor or minister from some other denomination which baptises by immersion (e.g. Baptist) without the added denominational trappings.

Then the Quaker part of me says baptism is only an outward sign and does not impart any kind of salvation or contribute to same - it is a public statement of my desire to follow Jesus, and I guess I have already done that so there is no need to do it again.

Here is another question.

We recognize baptism performed by immersion, at an age where the candidate is old enough to make a conscious decision and understand what it means, as a valid baptism when performed by other Christian denominations.

Do other Christians recognize SDA baptism as valid? that is, if a person ceases to be a member of the SDA faith and wants to join the Baptist church or some other church that baptizes adults by immersion, do they need to be re-baptized (this time without any mention of Ellen, the remnant etc)? Or can they join just as they are?

Just my rambling thoughts early in the morning.

aldona