By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ,
and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we
acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by
His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, and our
reception of the Holy Spirit. It is by immersion in water and is contingent on an affirmation of
faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. It follows instruction in the Holy Scriptures and
acceptance of their teachings. (Rom. 6:1-6; Col. 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt.
28:19,20.)

Since I have a long ways to go before I understand all the scriptures ... I guess I don't qualify for Baptism in the SDA church. I am not knowledgeable enough for them.

How much "learning" was required in the early church examples? OR was it a desire to learn.

I am baptised & I am no where near understanding even probably 1/4 of the scriptures..

So ... How did they let you be baptized ? Perhaps it wasn't an SDA baptism.

In Stans post it says "purpose to walk in newness of life" but in reality ... SDAs will not baptize you unless you show evidence that you are walking in "newness of life".

Their criteria for baptism is not only knowledge but works. And they pick which works you must demonstrate.

Redwood,

(I know I'm late reading this.) I've been trying to get baptized and get blocked at every turn. Growing up, it seemed like you could just show an interest. I'm from a town of about 700, though, mostly Southern Baptist. It didn't seem to be knowledge, but desire.

I'm getting frustrated. A few years ago I tried to get baptized and nothing came of it.

Right now, I kinda have a church. I have a mandatory university class on Sabbath so the pastor doesn't seem to feel I'm genuine.

One pastor wanted me to spend lots of time in a correspondence course.

I don't know... Maybe it's just not the right time or something. I'm getting disheartened.

C.

DWC. I think it's great that you desire to follow the Lord into His death and resurrection.

How are you getting blocked from baptism?


olger

Olger!

It just seems like things come up. Don't want to bore you with the details. Divorce, this, that, and the other. Every time I move toward baptism something weird happens! Hoping this time it's the right time. I know our new pastor isn't crazy about my old tattoos and such. He also wants me to spend a few months studying some more. I've spent my whole life reading the Bible and several years reading Adventist materials. I'm really trying to do the right thing. I know he's busy though, getting his new church building complete, to return my phone calls.

Thanks,
C.

That's sad if the pastor is hesitant to baptise because of tattoos. And nothing should be more important than talking and working with someone who wants baptism. Sounds like you might need a new pastor.

Either a "new pastor" or a new church... Ask your pastor if he has ever tried to remove a tattoo. Tell him that you don't have any on your heart. Regards, Don

Thanks, guys. No, he's been a pastor for about 30 years or so. He's the only one in our area. He and his wife are very, very conservative. We had kinda been avoiding church since we moved here a few years ago because it's the only SDA church around and when we first got here, some of the congregants weren't too tolerant of us. We respect their views, certainly.

For example, during a service a few years ago, there was a discussion on how to win souls. I raised my hand to give a non-Christian perspective, basically saying evangelists could win more friends with honey than vinegar. I was attacked, vigourously.

It's a small church. A lot of the members are set in their ways. I don't want them to change, I just want them to accept me for who I am. Maybe they don't agree with our political views or how we raise the kids, but just love us anyway. You know?

C.

Okay... talked to Pastor Number 3 (or 4 or something...) this afternoon. He's going to schedule time to talk to me and get the ball rolling!



Sorry for the emoticons... It's a small gesture to show you all how grateful I am for you...

And a small gesture of how excited I am right now!!!!

YAY!

Looking at it from a different angle, baptisms here on Earth are only token baptisms which cannot purify the soul, as many of us have already experienced. The real baptism occurs in the next life when those who are chosen wash up in the River of Life flowing from the Throne of God. In this water are biological mechanisms that can prevent disease and repair genetic decay.

Likewise, the "New Birth" does not occur in this life, although we can redirect our focus and behaviors to obey God while living here. The real "Born Again" experience occurs when our memories/personalities are downloaded into new, cloned bodies at the First Resurrection. Those who are chosen for this experience have proved, by their life on Earth, that they will be obedient servants and not be selfish or rebel against authority.

Technically, as resurrectees, we will be the intellectual equivalent to babies because there will be so much unfamilar information and advanced technology to absorb. After death, we sleep until suddenly awakened into a dazzling experience of sound and light and astonishment.

Jesus submitted to baptism, not because he expected to be reborn or purified, but to point us to the real baptism and the real rebirth

I'm having trouble getting baptized. It was scheduled for very soon, but I just learned they're putting it off. One of the others getting baptized the same day complained that I "hadn't studied enough." He's going on and on about how much Pastor made him study. I was baptized Adventist 20 years ago (been around the block A LOT since and wish to be re-baptized since I actually believe now). I was raised around Adventists. I married an Adventist. I've been reading the Review, etc. for many, many years. This gentleman doesn't know me. We just moved here. He seems to think I just came to a couple of prophecy seminar meetings and that's it. Now I've got to wait 'til after the first of the year to have it done, because of this guy complaining.

I've been a Sabbath-keeper for twenty years. Been trying to apply the health principles for most of my life. Very familiar with the 28 Fundamental Beliefs for a long, long time. This guy just got involved with the church over the summer. I'm glad he's getting baptized. The sooner the better, right?

Yes, it does get legalistic. Yes, I have ministers in other denominations wanting to do it ASAP.

Also, I said if we're going to put this off, I'd rather wait 'til spring and do it in a proper creek, like in my hometown. That didn't go over very well. I was told that is a modesty issue. Question: How is getting it done in a baptistery more modest than in a creek?

Sign me,
Ignorant Redneck Gal

That is worth a good laugh. Thanks for sharing this with us. And can you tell me WHY it is that you want to be baptized by this legalistic church?

Go find a good Christian friend that supports you and have him or her baptize you. DO it the way you want. Invite all those who support you and leave out the legalist elder etc.

If you really have to belong to this legalist church ... come home and be accepted on profession of faith.

I am really confused as to why you put yourself through all this. Just make up your mind and be happy with it. Why you continue to let yourself be abused by these people ... I just can't figure. Don't give them the satisfaction of judging you.

Get on with your life. Go and minister as we have been called to do. Don't let this issue draw you down. You are OF Christ. He loves you and accepts you now as you are. Don'tlet others tell you differently. You don't need any more studies.

I don't see anything in there that says Adventist baptism is the one and only that God approves of. If we are to follow Jesus' practices to the letter, then we'd all best be hopping on the first plane to the Jordan River.

Charis ... there is no such thing as an "Adventist" baptism. Baptism is into the Body of Christ. Membership into the Body of Christ and the Membership into the church are both different events. You join the church by a vote. You join the Body by Baptism. All Biblical Baptisms are the same. You go down into the water and come back up ... hopefully.

Having an "Adventist" baptize you does not make it and "Adventist" baptism. It may be blessed by an Adventist. But it is still joining the body and not the church. Baptism does not make you an "Adventist" no matter WHO does it. Again ... membership into the church is ONLY a popularity event ... a judgment that you are considered an SDA by the evidence of your belief and works.

That's not what I've been told.

Why do people of other faiths who have been baptized wish to be RE-baptized even though they have done nothing to dishonor the baptism they first had in another denomination?

Hi Charis . I don't doubt what you have been told. There are many misconceptions about Baptism. Baptism is a NonDenomination event.

One of the evidences of this is that the SDA church does not recognize you as an SDA until they take a vote. The baptism is not enough and does not make you an SDA. Only the vote does this.

Baptism like I said is into the Body Of Christ. NOT the SDA church or ANY church except the Non Denominational Body of Believers IN CHRIST. Another evidence of this is that if you were baptized at a Baptist Church ... you are accepted into the SDA church by a vote. You do not have to be Re-Baptized.

Re-Baptism is not scriptural. It is another example of tradition. It is like saying that the blood of Jesus is not powerful enough to wash away certain sins that you may have committed after your first baptism. At least this is what I have discovered. If you feel you have committed great sins or gained new committment ... then the foot washing is the "mini - Baptism" that takes the place of any need for the tradition of Re-Baptism.

If we were to follow the logic of Re-Baptism ... we would have to be Re-Baptized every time we gain new understandings. It just does not make sense. It is not designed to demonstrate your continued or renewed committment to God. It is a one time death. We do not have to keep having Death every time we sin or have a new conviction. The one Death of Christ is sufficient.

So, why do people get re baptized when they change denominations? I can find NO good reason. It just denies the Death and the power of God in my view.

so then what does a person do who spits in the face of Jesus, turns around and deliberately walks away from Him and into the arms of Satan?

Baptism is not for God. It is for people. It is a verbal and nonverbal statement of one's hopes and desires.

Or maybe I'm wrong. I seem to belong in the path of wrongsters.

Pam ... I think we have all done that at one time or another. OR if you don't think we have ... He still welcomes you back without any special works on your behalf. That is what is so beautiful about the symbolism. He loves you and accepts you without doing anything more. It shows the long standing permanance of his love, forgiveness and his blood.

Of course the "mini-baptism" of footwashing is there to cover this. But what is beautiful is that He loves you when you were away and He loves you now ... just the same. His blood covered you then and covers you now.

Praise God for this symbolism.

Of course there is nothing preventing you from Re-Baptism. Many do this. Nothing evil with it. But it is not necessary.

If you don't see anything "wrong" with it then I would encourage you to do it. We all see things differently. I can only express things from my personal viewpoint. Don't let MY view cloud YOUR view. You are responsible for reacting to the leading of the Holy Spirit in your personal life ... you are not to react to MY leading unless through your study and prayer HE leads you in that direction.

So ... Go for it if the Spirit leads.

doesn't matter......it's okay

Well, some of you then will be glad to hear the baptism is off. I'm not taking off my wedding band. I've also been asked to have some tattoos removed. This, that, and the other. I'm not perfect, but I'm trying to do the right things.

I'm heartbroken. I wanted to join the Adventist church again and I've been told, "Oh, you can still be a friend to the church." So be it. Jesus said, "Come as you" and so do many other Christian denominations.

I'm sorry. I don't wear makeup or jewelry. I dress modestly. I don't get it

A wedding ring is the reason for not baptizing someone??????? That is the biggest crock of I've read.

FA ... No one will be happy to hear that. This is very sad news. I am so sorry. You need to find some REAL Gospel centered church and people to Baptize you. We need to get our focus OFF works and outside influences and ONTO GOD.

If you are wanting to be baptized by an SDA for some reason ... just keep looking. Gospel centered SDAs are out there. My wife is an SDA Pastor. She has never taken off her ring. And yes ... she is baptized. But of course she had to "shop" around. She came across people like you have mentioned. It almost drove her away from Adventism and even Christianity.

If you need someone to baptize you with your rings and tatoos ... please contact me via PM. I can connect you with my wife. I know she would be willing to give you an Adventist blessed baptism. Just click on REDWOOD and send me a message if your are serious about it.

Just wanted you to know that even in the SDA church there are those who believe in the words of our Saviour " Come as you are".

You need to find another Adventist church... wearing of a wedding ring is NOT a "test of fellowship"

Sounds more like spiritual abuse from the information given.

Stan ... you have labeled this very correctly. But sadly it is very common in our church. This is not a story. This is reality. Like I suggested ... FA just needs to do some shopping to find a Gospel Centered Pastor and Church.

Of course the second option is that if this is not possible ... just find any old Christian to baptize. We are all called to minister. The minister who baptizes you does not have to be "blessed of the church". Each of us has a charge ... it is called the Great Gospel Commission to go forth and "baptize" in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Amen.

It is not even in Harmony with the Adventist Church....

That's right. But each pastor and church tend to do their own thing. Thus ... we have Pastors who will not baptize you if you wear jewelry , drink , smoke , eat meat , Drink Coffee or tea , have anger issues , eat too much sugar , have tatoos , and the list goes on and on.

Baptism is the beginning. It is a statement that you WANT to follow Christ and you accept Him as your Saviour. It is a turning point. It does not indicate that you ARE following Him. You have not had the time to "demonstrate" a new life. It is a plan for the "future".

Like FA mentioned .... Christ invites you to come as you are. HE will then turn you around. Once you are baptized ... Acts 2 describes a special outpouring of the Holy Ghost that comes AT the baptism. This will allow you to make changes in your life. It will help you better understand truth. But you can't expect the babe in Christ to do this BEFORE baptism.

That is definately putting the cart before the horse.

Thanks, you guys. You really don't know what your support means. I feel like I've dumped at the altar or something. Just heartbroken. I'm sitting here crying like a silly person.

Apparently another issue is that someone supposedly saw my husband buying alcohol (I guess a 12-pack of soda looks like beer to some of us non-drinkers). I just got a long email from a member of that church letting me know some people went the pastor about it. I was told that even if he later baptized me, it's no guarantee the elders would vote me into membership.

I'm doing the best I can. I had kind of hit bottom with some things recently and God let me back to Christianity. Specifically, I felt led back to Seventh-day Adventism. I am brand new. I am deeply committed now to following Christ, rough edges and all.

Again, your words on this forum have uplifted me. Thank you!

BAPTISMAL VOW AND BAPTISM— CHURCH MANUAL AMENDMENT
Voted, To amend the Church Manual, Chapter 5, Church Membership, page 30, Baptismal Vow and Baptism, to read as follows:

Certificate of Baptism and Commitment— The commitment will read as follows:

Commitment

1. I believe there is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons.

2. I accept the death of Jesus Christ on Calvary as the atoning sacrifice for my sins. I believe that by God’s grace through faith in His shed blood that I am saved from sin and its penalty.

3. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and personal Saviour and believe that God, in Christ, has forgiven my sins and given me a new heart, and I renounce the sinful ways of the world.

4. I accept by faith the righteousness of Christ, my Intercessor in the heavenly sanctuary, and accept His promise of transforming grace and power to live a loving, Christ-centered life in my home and before the world.

5. I believe the Bible is God’s inspired Word, the only rule of faith and practice for the Christian. I covenant to spend time regularly in prayer and Bible study.

6. I accept the Ten Commandments as a transcript of the character of God and a revelation of His will. It is my purpose by the power of the indwelling Christ to keep this law, including the fourth commandment, which requires the observance of the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath of the Lord and the memorial of Creation.

7. I look forward to the soon coming of Jesus and the blessed hope when “this mortal shall . . . put on immortality.” As I prepare to meet the Lord, I will witness to His loving salvation by using my talents in personal soul-winning endeavor to help others to be ready for His glorious appearing.

8. I accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church.

9. I believe in church organization. It is my purpose to worship God and to support the church through my tithes and offerings and by my personal efforts and influence.

10. I believe that my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; and I will honor God by caring for it, avoiding the use of that which is harmful; abstaining from all unclean foods, from the use, manufacture, or sale of alcoholic beverages; the use, manufacture, or sale of tobacco in any of its forms for human consumption; and from the misuse of or trafficking in narcotics or other drugs.

11. I know and understand the fundamental Bible principles as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. I purpose, by the grace of God, to fulfill His will by ordering my life in harmony with these principles.

12. I accept the New Testament teaching of baptism by immersion and desire to be so baptized as a public expression of faith in Christ and His forgiveness of my sins.

13. I accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation, race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship. I desire to be a member of this local congregation of the world church.


http://www.adventistreview.org/2000-bulletin7/actions-proceedings.html

I missed the part about jewelry, child custody, having old horror films in your house, make-up, listening to Bob Seger, hubby's video games, watching television (in my case, PBS and science fiction), believing in science AND God (the latter more so than the former), painting my daughter's toenails, being divorced, being 20 pounds overweight, preferring to be baptized in a creek (remember, it's immodest!), reading Harry Potter, wearing blue jeans, tattoos, piercings (even though the holes are there, I don't wear anything in them), husband buying beer, etc.

I also don't see anything about the pastor "needing" to come inspect your house beforehand. I'm sure when he sees my Universal Monster Movie posters up and science fiction novels it's all over. It's probably over the minute he sees all the subversive wall hangings from NorthernSun.com. The Margaret Mead quote poster (that was actually in an issue of the Adventist Review, along with other quotes on Compassion). My husband's Blues Brothers film poster. The Dr Who fridge magnets. Toenail polish. The soda in the fridge (hubby's). The books by Henri Nouwen (he's...gasp!... Catholic).

So, when does helping someone live a more godly life cross the line into micro-management and legalism? Maybe I shouldn't have that Boris Karloff movie, but should the pastor disrupt my Sabbath meal with my family late Friday night to tell me I'm not eligible for baptism? If he gets to wear a pinky ring, why should we gals take off our wedding bands? If the pastor's wife wears a gob of make-up and dyes her hair, why can't I paint my toenails? (My husband like them, and no one else ever sees my toes, anyhow.)
Why does the church have a Christmas tree? Isn't that a pagan tradition? Why does the lady who runs the Sabbath school wear tight, short dresses, open-toed shoes and no hose?
Why turn a single mother away because she never married the baby's father? Why turn my best friend away because she's shacking up with her children's father? Why turn someone away because her husband drinks beer occasionally?
I understand the admonishment to rebuke, but try some love. A lot of Christians are never going to understand that when you start criticizing folks as soon as they darken the door, they're going to leave. If I could get across one point, it is this. I speak for myself, my husband, and two of my dear friends tonight (we're all in the same boat... the life raft that got thrown overboard earlier today):

Yes, we know we've done wrong. Thanks, but we're already ashamed. We would love to turn back time and slap our teenaged selves for getting married the first time. Some of us would take back the tattoos. We're humiliated that "our man" is getting the milk for free. We WISH we'd had more sense than to sleep with that boy. It WOULD be lovely if we could afford before tax refund time to get nicer, better-looking Sabbath clothes for ourselves and our kids. We would LOVE to have full physical custody of ALL of our children. Sadly, justice isn't blind. She is sold to the highest bidder. Look, we're getting up onSaturday mornings after grueling school schedules, plus work, plus dealing with children, ex-husbands, finals, car problems, the account being $497 overdrawn, PT at 5:30 every morning followed by working through lunch and more loading trucks until 6 or 7, dealing with crazy ex-girlfriends who want our husbands, deaths in the family, hospitalizations, going to the oncologist, getting told our son was kicked out of school for drawing his father being decapitated, being gossiped about by church members, not being able to make up a final even though we were at a funeral when it was going on and that's not a good enough excuse to our lab prof.... and GOING TO CHURCH. We're dragging the kids out of bed, getting them cleaned up and in dress clothes. We're hoping we have enough gas to make the trip and toss some money in the plate and make it until payday. WE'RE THERE. WE'RE GRATEFUL TO BE THERE. WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FORWARD TO SABBATH ALL WEEK. WE'RE EXCITED TO WALK IN AND SEE ALL OF YOU.

Jesus ate with us, and so can you.

Thank you for trusting us enough to share all that with us. Well ... I hope we are trustworthy enough.

We LOVE You

All I can do is pray that the church will find a way to love you and make up for the abuse that it has dumped on you.

Not all are like this. I do hope that you can find some good in the church. Please Please though. Find a NEW church. Don't go back to the abuse if you can possibly go elsewhere.

This treatment of you is an attempt by some to protect the old fundamental beliefs. What these people don't realize is that the beliefs are there ... even if we don't measure up. And the best way to have people drawn to the church is by LOVE ... NOT by oppressive dictatorship.

Remember ... God loves you just the way you are. HE is working in your life at His pace. At each step HE LOVEs you. He does not say to you ... "I can't love you if you have a wedding band on". That is evil talk from evil people. They are the ones who do not know God. For God is LOVE.

Hold you head up high. You are in the right. They are in the wrong. But, they do need love from a missionary. Can you be the missionary and love them despite the abuse? OR ... Do you need to find the support and love so that you can grow stronger before you take on such a challenge of ministry? I don't know. But being new in Christ ... I suspect that this is not the time to be a missionary to those "needy" people. Get yourself established before you tolerate such people. Let yourself be loved by those that have and demonstrate Christian love first. Then go back and witness to the abusers.

Please, FA, please abandon any contact with that bunch of people, and RUN-don't walk- to a DIFFERENT Adventist church. Even if you have to drive several miles to do so. This is NOT the true belief system of current Adventism.

And for some church "member" to take it upon himself to email you warning you you might not be "good enough" to become a member there: well, that's just baloney. Abandon them immediately. And shake the dust off your feet when you do so.

Honest. [That's actually a Biblical admonition: shaking the dust off your feet where the people do not follow Christian principles.]

God bless you.

Ok. I have to say more. I think my mean side is growing at this moment. Here is what you could do ...

You could tell these people that they need to study the Bible and become Christians. The Bible tells us that if we have something against someone ... we are to go to them in private and speak to them one on one.

What they have done by going to the Pastor is wrong and against the instructions of Matt.18

The term for what they have done is ... GOSSIP .

The Bible speaks very clearly about GOSSIP. It is one of the most destructive evils there is.

Also ... unless the Pastor directs these people to talk to you ... He/She is just as guilty. My wife is constantly having to direct people to not discuss these kinds of things with her. She puts a stop to it by telling them to approach the people they are concerned with.

This is the most effective way to stop gossip. And it is the correct Biblical way.

What you can do is to tell the Pastor how destructive gossip is and how you have been affected. Ask the Pastor to come up with ways to prevent it. Oh well ... maybe this Pastor is hopeless. Look at the church and what is going on !!!

But, I pray that God will give you strength to combat this evil. God be with you.

Experiences like this are about the most discouraging things there are. The way we treat each other in the church can be truly pitiful. I'm so sorry you are having a difficult time with this congregation. There is no excuse for what it going on there; it is the opposite of Christ-like. So sad, for you and for them. They are blind Pharisees, LOST and don't even realize it.

I tend to think Satan works hardest inside the church. If you stay there, you may still need to look elsewhere for your spiritual nourishment. You will only get discouraged and angry if you look at the people. Keep looking at Jesus. Keep searching and praying that God will lead you to people who will strengthen and encourage you. At the same time, search and pray for people that you can study with and encourage. That will help your own growth, as well.

It might be helpful for you to spend some time reading about the lives of Joseph, Moses, Paul, and others who had to put up with trials from dealing with people and how God intervened for them. I have seen God move obstacles in amazing ways, but sometimes we have to go through some fire first. I can see how you would be really wonderful at a ministry of nurturing new Christians because of what you are going through.

hmmm interesting discussion. Personally I think that if you accept the fundamental believes, that that is a sufficient basis to be baptised. These statements include health issues etc, but I think we should use logical thinking here. For example, it is better to go to the gym 3 times a week and drink 8 beers every sunday, than walking 5 minutes a day and drinking one beer. What goes out of the heart is wayyyy more important than that comes into the mouth. I think it is indeed wrong to be legalistically, you can t impose perfectness on a human being. People have to be nurtured and taught by the holy spirit so they can grow in Christ. Actually i think you should pray for the legalistic pastors, because the way you judge others will be the standard whereby you shall be judged and nobody is perfect. Personally I want to go to the States in 2 years or somethin like that and be baptised by Doug Bachelor, Shawn Boonstra or Pastor Bohr.

My pastor is compromising with me... Yay, I can keep my $40 wedding band!

Praise God !!

Does that make you a 40% Seventh day Adventist though?