God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things
were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and
the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was
conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation
as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles
He manifested God’s power and was attested as God’s promised Messiah. He suffered and
died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and
ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the
final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19;
John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1
Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.)

I don't see here anything that makes it clear whether Jesus had a fallen, sinful nature or whether he had the nature of Adam before the Fall. It seems to me that is very important. Perhaps it is stated in another section but it seems that it should be here.

Ahh yes, Jim, the nature of Christ. Quite an interesting and, indeed, important question. Well, you are quite a scholar. What do you find to be taught in Scripture? For example, in Romans 8:3. Any insights from the Greek?

Thanks for the complement, but I don't consider myself a "scholar" unless you only have in mind the archaic meaning of student.
I believe the answer to your question may be determined by a careful study of what both the Bible and Ellen White have to say about the human nature of Christ.
While a theology student at LLU, I believed that Jesus's human nature was the same as Adam's before the fall. Since that time, however, as I've studied, I've become persuaded that Jesus had a fallen human nature. That is, I believe that although Jesus had a fallen human nature, yet He never once sinned in either thought or action. He overcame sin with the same power of the Holy Spirit that you and I have access to in order to overcome. (See Rev. 3:21)
But did Jesus have any advantage over us in His experience of overcoming sin? Yes, I believe He did. First, Jesus never had to undergo conversion or the new birth, because he was born with the Holy Spirit already in His life. Second, Jesus never had sinful habits to overcome like we do.
The primary Biblical sources for my beliefs on this subject are John 1:14; Romans 1:3; 8:3; Hebrews 2:14-18; cf. Hebrews 4:15; 5:2; James 1:14,15.
Romans 1:3 says that the Son was "descended from David according to the flesh." What flesh? Fallen flesh, of course, because it is the only flesh that David and his descendents had. It's the same flesh you and I have. It seems to me that the geneologies of Jesus as given in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show us that Jesus was a real human being with all the inherited tendencies with which human beings are born. Hebrews 2:16 says, "He had to be made like his brethren in every respect" (RSV).
Also John 1:14: "And the word became flesh..." Again what kind of flesh? No doubt the same flesh that Mary, his mother, had-- fallen.
(Remember it was in order to avoid this truth that the Roman Catholic Church invented its doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, which Adventists do not believe in because it is a lie based on tradition and not on Holy Scripture.)
Next, I believe that a comparison of Hebrews 4:15 and James 1:14, 15 shows that since Jesus was truly tempted in all points as we are, He must have have been tempted "from within" the same way that James says all of us experience temptation.
I believe that a close study of the following writings of Ellen White confirm the view that Jesus came to live among us with a fallen human nature: DA 49, 117, 131; SG vol. 4, pages 115, 116; MM 181; 1 SM 95, 267-268; MH 7; 7 BC 926; Review and Herald 2-24-1874; FILB 114; ST 177. (For a complete listing of Ellen White's comments on this subject, see The Word Was Made Flesh by Ralph Larson.)
The Bible Readings For the Home Circle (1915), page 174, reads: "In His humanity Christ partook of our sinful, fallen nature..." It was changed following the death of Ellen White.
Here's how 52 translations have rendered the Greek words of Romans 8:3 ...en homoiomati sarkos hamartias... "in likeness of flesh of sin..." (There are no varients in the Greek text.)
1) "... in the likeness of sinful flesh..." KJV, NASB, NAB, RSV, NRSV, ASV, KJ II, Lamsa's, Rotherham's, Lattimore's, RY Literal, Jay Green's Literal, New Berkeley, NT in Modern English, Jay Adam's, A.S. Worrell's, Confraternity.
2) CEV--"...to be like us sinners..."
3) Christian Standard Bible--"...in flesh like ours under sin's dominion..."
4) NIV-- "...in the likeness of sinful man..."
5) New International Readers' Version-- "...to be like those who have a sinful nature..."
6) Laubach's Inspired Letters-- "..in flesh like our sinning flesh..."
7) Complete Jewish Bible-- "...as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one..."
8) New Jerusalem Bible-- "...in the same human nature as any sinner..."
9) New Century-- "...with the same human life that others use for sin..."
10) God's Word--"...to have a human nature as sinners have..."
11) Revised English Bible-- "...in the likeness of our sinful nature..."
12) 21st Century-- "...with a nature resembling our sinful nature..."
13) TEV (1976)--"...with a nature like man's sinful nature..."
14) Alfred Dewes' Translation of Romans (1866)-- "...in the likeness of the flesh in which sin dwells..."
15) Free Paraphrase by Jack Sequeira-- "...uniting the divine nature of His Son, at the incarnation, to our corporate sinful human nature that needed redeeming and in that humanity Christ assumed, which was identical to ours, the principle or power of sin was both defeated and executed."
16) Clear Word--"...Jesus took on human nature and demonstrated by the power of the Holy Spirit that sin can be overcome."
17) Charles William's-- "...in a body similar to that of our lower nature..."
18) God's New Covenant (Cassiner)-- "...in a form like that borne by our own sinful nature..."
19) The New Translation (1990)--"...having a body like our sinful bodies..."
20) Bible In Basic English-- "...in the image of the evil flesh..."
21) Goodspeed-- "...in our sinful physical form..."
22) Emphatic Diaglott (Translated by B. Wilson)--"...in a form of a flesh of sin..."
23) Amplified and Moffatt-- "...in the guise of sinful flesh..."
24) Darby's Holy Bible-- "...in the likeness of flesh of sin..."
25) Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English-- "...in the likeness of a sinful body..."
26) Byington's Bible in Living English-- "...in the likeness of sinning flesh..."
27) The Unvarnished NT (Andy Gaus)-- "...in the fleshly likeness of sin..."
29) Letters From Paul (Blackwelder)-- "...in the likeness of sinful nature..."
30) Wuest's Expanded Trans.-- "...in likeness of flesh of sin..."
31) R.A.Knox (Catholic)-- "...in the fashion of our guilty nature..."
32) J.B.Phillips'-- "...in that human nature which causes the trouble..."
33) Weymouth (3rd edition, 1909)-- "...in a body like that of sinful human nature..."
34) Weymouth (4th edition, 1929, James Robertson ed.)-- "...in the form of sinful humanity..."
35) The Message-- "...took on the human condition, entered the disordered mess of struggling humanity..."
For those interested in how the NT elsewhere uses the Greek word here usually translated "likeness," please see Romans 6:5 and Phil. 2:7. Similar Greek words also occur in James 3:9 and Acts 14:11.
The following quote from the pen of Ellen White shows the importance and relevance of this topic for Seventh-day Adventists with our unique understanding of the Great Controversy theme and the High Priestly ministry of Jesus:
"Satan claimed that it was impossible for human beings to keep God's law. In order to prove the falsity of this claim, Christ left His high command, took upon Himself the nature of man, and came to the earth to stand at the head of the fallen race, in order to show that humanity could withhstand the temptations of Satan. He became the Head of humanity, to be assaulted with temptations on every point as fallen human nature would be tempted, that He might know how to succor all who are tempted. On this earth He worked out the problem of how to live in accordance with God's standard of right. Bearing our nature, He was true to God's standard of righteousness, gaining the victory over Satan. he was tempted in all points like as we are, yet He was without sin." The Upward Look, page 172.
There are of course SDA and others who will not agree with my analysis of what the Bible and Ellen White teach on this subject, and I invite their comments and criticism. Jim

Thank-you, Jim, thank-you. You have posted a real tour-de-force, which I shall enjoy perusing over the next several days. This is truly exciting and enjoyable. You have made my day, by posting this. I am MOST anxious to look into 'homoiwmati.' I really appreciate your listing the comparative translations. It seems to me that the crux of the issue has to do with the meaning of homoiwmati (homoiwma). Kittel has an excellent 13 page article, written by Herr Schneider, in v. 5, begining on p. 186. As I recall, Schneider does good work.

I will respond as soon as I have had a chance to look into this.

Best regards, Dave

Here is some info from Kittel. The word itself is "what is made similar," "copy." The word . . . ALWAYS HAS THE CONCRETE SENSE OF 'COPY' RATHER THAN THE ABSTRACT SENSE OF LIKENESS OR CORRESPONDENCE." (Kittel, v. 5, p. 191)

Bingo!!!! THAT is what I was looking for! Here, then, is a key in understanding Paul's intent in this verse. A copy, in the concrete rather than the abstract. Here is some further commentary from Kittel (pp. 195, 196):

"In R. 8:3 Paul says that God sent His Son into the world in the form of sinful flesh . . . He is emphasizing that Christ was really man. He bore a physical body fashioned according to the human body which is infected with sin. In outward form He was in no way different from other men. But Paul does not say that he came en sarki hamartias. With his en homoiwmati Paul is showing that for all the similarity between Christ's physical body and that of men there is an essential difference between Christ and men. Even in Hihs earthly life Christ was still the Son of God. This means that He became man without entering the nexus of human sin. The words en homoiwmati keep us from a deduction which Paul did not wish to make, namely, that Christ became subject to the power of sin and did in fact sin. For Paul Christ is sinless. Sin, which clung to the physical body He assumed, had no power over Him. The homoiwma thus indicates two things, first the likeness in appearance, and secondly the distinction in essence. Why did God send His Son into the world in the form of sinful flesh? Paul answers: with this body the intrinsically sinless Christ became the representative of sinful mankind. Hence God, by giving up Christ to death, could condemn sin by destroying His body, and thus cancel it. Christ took the likeness of sarx hamartias in order that God in Christ might achieve the liberation of mankind from sin."

Well, Jim, what think you of the foregoing?

Dave

The essential question for me is, was Jesus "really man" as all men are or as only one man was before the Fall? Kittel writes that "Christ was really man" but then he apparently says Christ was not like us in the most fundamental feature, that of our sinful nature. It seems to me that if Christ did not have our sinful nature, He could not have known temptation as we know it. And therefore, if that were the case, Jesus did not overcome sin as we must overcome it. And if Jesus did not overecome sin as we must overcome it, how then can we say he was made like his brothers in every respect and that he is truly able to sympathize with the struggles of sinners fighting against sinful desires?
To say that Jesus had a sinful nature is not the same as saying that "Christ became subject to the power of sin" or that he sinned. Christ was sinless, certainly, and saying He had a sinful nature does not in any way detract from His sinlessness. It is not sin to be powerfully tempted-- even if that temptation comes from within our own sinful nature. To have a sinful nature does not require God's forgiveness because our sinful nature itself is not sin. What is sin is the giving in to sin, that is, surrendering our will to it. Christ never did that, and the reason He did not do it is that He resisted it by the power of the Holy Spirit.
For instance, did Jesus know experientially what it was like to resist the desire to do what He knew was against His Father's will? That is, did the thought ever come into His mind to do something wrong? Christ had a natural desire to follow his human inclinations, but He resisted those desires. Christ immediately rejected the thought and never coveted it or dwelt on it. Instead, Christ prayed that the Father's will would be done in all things. He completely submitted Himself to God.
Christ not only merely appeared to be a real man-- He actually was 100% a real man.
Well, what is the essential nature of a real man? Isn't it that it is sinful?
What makes him vulnerable? Isn't it that he has a sinful nature?
What makes him in need of a mediator and a Savior? Again, isn't it his sinful nature?
Yes, Christ was indeed sinless, of course! But He was not sinless because His human nature was essentially different from our own human nature. "He was made like his brothers in every respect," just as the Scripture says, and it is because He was in all points tempted like as we are that Christ as our High Priest is well able to sympathize with us now in our weaknesses. He was sinless because He overcame sin by the same power that is available to you and me. Jesus really could have sinned. Christ's temptations were real and not make-believe. That is how Christ became the representative of sinful mankind and how He achieved our liberation. It was by taking on Himself our sinful nature, yet without sinning, that Jesus became the author and leader of our salvation.
God did not condemn sin by destroying Christ's body but rather by Christ's demonstration that through the dynamite/power of God's indwelling Spirit, people with sinful natures really can resist and overcome sin. Jim

Now, taking another look at homoiwmati . . . (neuter singular dative) The concept of 'exact copy' is fascinating. Compare Rom. 8:3 with Phil. 2:7. Here, Paul uses the word along with morpheev. if Christ was en morphee theou, in the form of God, and became en morpheen doulou, in the form of a servant, this suggests to me that indeed, the transformation was complete. This, and the use of homoiwmati--an exact copy, as opposed to being in the likeness of.

Well, then, how does this impact our understanding of the nature of Christ? I can't say that I agree with the Kittel article, insofar as the author's discussion of homoiwmati in Rom. 8:3. As Jim points out, the author starts out by saying that Christ was like man, but then he seems to say the opposite, insofar as 'the likeness of sinful flesh' goes. My particular concern is that I did not find much support stated for that position. Seemed like more of a homily. On what basis would the author so limit the meaning of the word in this occurrence? In fact, doing so would seem to disregard the etymology of the word and its usage in other literature. Ha! Once again, theology drives exegesis!

At any rate, that still leaves unsettled, the issue of exactly what it DOES mean--that Christ was a carbon copy of man--and not just man, but homoiwmati sarkos hamartias. Why do translations use the word 'likeness,' when the actual word is stronger than that? IOW 'God His own Son sending in a copy of sinful flesh.' At least, that is how it looks to me. Any thoughts about this?

David Koot

Quote:

---

David Koot said:

Quote:

---

John317 said:

But then neither do we have to continue having the propensity to sin. Through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit, we also may overcome sin just as Jesus overcame sin. There have been many people who have overcome sin and no longer lived with the propensity to sin: Enoch, Elijah, Moses, John the Baptist, Peter, John the Beloved, etc. Those who are sealed with the seal of God and live through the time of trouble to see Jesus return will also overcome sin as Jesus did and no longer have the propensity to sin but will be so settled into the truth that they, like Jesus, can't be moved . . . We gain the tendency, or propensity, to obey God when we experience the second birth through the Holy Spirit . . . After all, Enoch had a sinful nature, yet he overcame sin and got to the point where he no longer had the propensity to sin. God has provided the way for us to have the same experience today.

---

Hmmmm . . . That is different than I had thought. I have understood that we will still have sinful flesh, still have that fallen nature, still have that propensity to sin, to war against, until Jesus comes, and we receive new natures and new bodies. Yes, by God's grace, with His help, we will be overcomers, but we will have those tendencies to sin, to war against, until the day Jesus comes. The alternative would seem to me, to be a type of 'holy flesh' experience. Am I misunderstanding this?

David Koot

---

We will, of course, have "sinful flesh" right up to the Second Coming. I'm not talking about any sort of "holy flesh" idea at all. I am only talking about what the Bible itself says in such verses as 1 John 3:6, 9, 10, 24; 5:3-5; Galatians 5:16, 25; Romans 6: 12-15; 8:1-14; 2 Peter 1:3,4; Jude 24. The basic message of those verses is that that we need not live according to the sinful flesh but that by God's grace we can become partakers of the divine nature and our lives controlled by the Holy Spirit.

You might look up Propensity in the Ellen White Index and see how she uses that word. You will see that she says that we need not retain one sinful propensity (7 BC 943), and that Christ can strengthen us to "fully overcome" "evil propensities" (5 T 335). Also see GC 484-491 and PP 84-89.

Among those pages are these sentences: "The godly character of this prophet [Enoch] represents the state of holiness which must be attained by those who shall be 'redeemed from the earth' (Revelation 14:3) at the time of Christ's second advent. Then, as in the world before the Flood, iniquity will prevail. Following the promptings of their corrupt hearts and the teachings of a deceptive philosophy, men will rebel against the authority of Heaven. But like Enoch, God's people will seek for purity of heart and conformity to His will, until they shall reflect the likeness of Christ." (PP 89) Jim

Even though Jesus Christ as a man did not have a single evil, sinful propensity, yet Jesus was born with a fallen, sinful nature like his ancestor David, and like his mother, Mary.

Is the fact that we, unlike Christ, are born with sinful propensities to disobey God offer us an excuse to sin? No. Why not?

Please consider the following: "We need not retain one sinful propensity... As we partiake of the divine nature, hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong are cut away from the character, and we are made a living power for good..." (7 BC 943). It would be helpful to read that entire page as it contains much that is of importance for understanding the subject we're discussing here.

Ellen White wrote that "Jesus alone can strengthen" us "to fully overcome" our "evil propensities." (5 T 335) But she also never ceased to remind her readers of the daily spiritual battles against temptations they must wage.

Without question we will have sinful natures and temptations and sin to resist right up to the moment that we are translated at the Second Coming.
But will we be sinning at that time? No. "When He [Christ] leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor" (GC 614). Those who are translated will have "fully overcome their evil propensities" through "Christ alone". We, like Enoch before his translation, will fully reflect the likeness of Christ (PP 89).

"Satan could find nothing in the Son of God that would enable him to gain the victory. He had kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble." (GC 623)

Study Jude 24; 1 John 3:1-10; and 2 Peter 1:3-9. Col 1:19 says all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in Christ. Ephesians 3:19 says that human beings also "may be filled with all the fullness of God."

It seems clear to me that we don't realize the possibilities and the amazing potential that God offers us. Jim

To that I say:

Quote John317:

"How was Jesus able to overcome? Because He had a different nature than we have? No. He overcame the same way we must overcome. Rev. 3: 21. By faith in God and in His power."

I agreed the first part of what you said. He had the same nature as us through His mother Mary. But I disagreed that He overcame the same way we must overcome because:

1. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, unlike us, He had no human father.
2. If we could overcome the same way He must overcome, then we do not need a Saviour.
3. God did not have to send His Son to die on the Cross for the human race.
4. Genesis 2:17 would be meaningless.
5. We are saved by the grace of God only through Jesus Christ's merit in overcoming sins.

VERY WELL SAID Yongttay.

Thank you.

Wow...and I missed this? Anyway....

1] Never, never say that Christ HAD a fallen nature - a sinful nature. As God He was sinless in thought, deed and nature. However, the humanity that He assumed did have a fallen nature for it was our humanity after the fall. We must separate Christ as God and Christ as the Son of Man.*

2] The statement, "He overcame the same way we must overcome" is legalistic. We are not under law and therefore we are not expected to be perfect. That's the whole reason Christ took our humanity. Yes, as we see the love of God a change begins, not in our nature, but in our mind. This leads to growth, but to say we must overcome as Christ overcame is legalism.

Notes *

“In Christ were united the divine and the human--the Creator and the creature. The nature of God, whose law had been transgressed, and the nature of Adam, the transgressor, meet in Jesus--the Son of God, and the Son of man.” [SDA Bible Commentary Vol 7, 926]

Let me give you a non-Adventist Author who understands the gospel. He is referring to this passage:

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh

"The intention behind the use of 'likeness' here was to take account of the fact that the Son of God was not changed into a man, but rather assumed human nature while still remaining Himself. On this view the Greek word used has its sense of 'likeness'; but the intention is not in any way to water down the reality of Christ's fallen human nature, but to draw attention to the fact that, while the Son of God truly assumed fallen human nature, He never became fallen human nature and nothing more, but always remained Himself....We understand Paul's thought to be that the Son of God assumed the selfsame fallen human nature that it ours, but that in His case that fallen human nature was never the whole of Him - He never ceased to be the eternal Son of God." [Romans - A Shorter Commentary - C.E.B. Cranfield, pp 176-177]

By the way, both Jones and Waggoner made this same point in 1888.

The problem with saying that Christ HAD a sinful human nature makes Him a sinner under the curse!

Would you like some proof?

Okay:

"Surely I [David] was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." [Ps. 51:5]

Since David didn't even have a developed brain to be tempted with at conception, he had to be speaking of his nature alone that made him sinful.

“What is man, that he should be pure, Or he who is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?" [Job 15:14]

If you are born of a woman then you are not righteous. You are sinful....Why? Because through mom you received Adam's life that is under the curse. See Romans chapter 5.

"...we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest." [Eph 2:3]

"By nature" alone we are children of wrath....

Now what happened to Christ as Man when He was born of a woman?

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

What was born under the condemnation of the law? Our humanity, or Christ's Divine life? Right, our humanity, which Christ assumed. He became what He was not by native right - sin!

Proof?

Okay:

"For he [God the Father] hath made him [Jesus as God] to be sin [Jesus as man] for us, who knew no sin [as God]; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." [2 Corinthians 5:21]

But, thanks be to God, "God sent forth His son, made…under the law, to redeem them that were under the law." Galatians 4:4,5. By His coming He brought redemption to every soul who is under the law. But in order perfectly to bring that redemption to men under the law, He Himself must come to men, just where they are and as they are, under the law.

And this "was made." He did, for he was "made under the law;" He was made "guilty;" He was made condemned by the law; He was "made" as guilty as any man is guilty who is under the law. He was "made" under condemnation as fully as any man is under condemnation because of his violation of the law. He was "made" under the curse as completely as any man in the world has ever been or ever can be under the curse. For it is written: "He that is hanged ["on a tree"] is accursed of God." Deut. 21:23.

The Hebrew makes this stronger still, for the literal translation is: "He that hangeth on a tree is the curse of God." And this is exactly the strength of the fact respecting Christ, for it is written that He was "made a curse." Thus, when He was made under the law, He was made all that it means to be under the law. He was made guilty; He was made condemned; He was made a curse.

But bear in mind forever that all this He "was made." He was none of this of Himself, of native fault, but all of it he "was made."... [The Consecrated Way to Christian Perfection, chapter 5]

Quote Robert:

"1] Never, never say that Christ HAD a fallen nature - a sinful nature. As God He was sinless in thought, deed and nature. However, the humanity that He assumed did have a fallen nature for it was our humanity after the fall. We must separate Christ as God and Christ as the Son of Man."


I am confused at what you are trying to say. Are you saying that Jesus had two natures: Being the Son of God, He had a sinless nature. Being the Son of Man, He had a sinful nature. May I ask you a question. Was Mary a biological mother or a surrogate mother of Jesus?

There is only One Jesus - the Son of God. The humanity He assumed for 33 years, was our humanity.


-BC- 7BC
-TI- S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7
-CN- HEB8
-CT- Hebrews
-PR- 03
-PG- 927

By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for man [mankind]. [How?] This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself. [What type of humanity?]….To bring humanity into Christ, to bring the fallen race into oneness with divinity, is the work of redemption.





[/quote]

Robert,

You have not answered my questions. Every one in this forum know that there is only One Jesus, I did not ask you that.

Again, Jesus is God and when God the Father blended Him with our humanity in Mary's womb, Jesus took upon His sinless nature, our sinful fallen nature. It wasn't His, it was ours....

"Christ did in reality unite the offending nature of man with His own sinless nature...." [17MR, 26]

Here's another way to look at this mystery. When you became a believer the Holy Spirit (the 3rd person of the God-head) came to live in you. So you have the Holy Spirit and Yongttay in one body, right?

Now does the Holy Spirit (who is in you) have a sinful nature? NO! Does Yongttay? Yes! The Holy Spirit tabernacles in you, He doesn't become you. Likewise you do not become the Holy Spirit. You have a sinful nature and the Holy Spirit, by residing in you, assumes that nature, but it is not His.

Is that clear?

Rob

Robert:

"So you have the Holy Spirit and Yongttay in one body, right?"

So there are two persons in my body. I am a twinity, right?

Oh help! It is clearly error.

1 Cor 6:19 "do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you...?

John 4:24 "God is spirit"

So you say. Disprove me!

He took upon Himself fallen, suffering human nature, degraded and defiled by sin.....He united humanity with divinity: a divine spirit [Christ] dwelt in a temple of flesh [our humanity]. He united Himself [as God] with the temple [our humanity]. (YI Dec. 20, 1900)

“He [Christ as God] voluntarily assumed human nature. He clothed His divinity with humanity." [7ABC 446]

Quote Robert:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted By: yongttay
Robert:

"So you have the Holy Spirit and Yongttay in one body, right?"

So there are two persons in my body?


1 Cor 6:19 "do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you...?

John 4:24 "God is spirit"

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I know you have been doing your best to prove your point, but you have not answered my question: Was Mary a surrogate mother or a biological mother of Jesus?


If Mary was a surrogate mother of Jesus, I would have agreed with you that Jesus was never a human and did not have a sinful nature. Being born of a woman, He assumed the sinful human nature. He remained as God or the Son of God and thus had a sinless nature.

If Mary was a biological mother of Jesus, then He was a human and inherited the sinful human nature through Mary. Since He was conceived by the Holy Spirit with no human father, He was known as the Son of God. Having Mary as His biological mother, He was known as the Son of Man.

That would make Jesus as sinner!


When the voice of the angel was heard saying, “Thy Father calls thee,” He who had said, “I lay down my life, that I might take it again,” “Destroy this temple, and in thr