There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal
Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite
and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy
of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14;
Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter l:2; 1 Tim, 1:17; Rev. 14:7.)

This question seems to belong in "the Son" thread, but it pertains to this thread more, perhaps...

Was Jesus always his Father's Son?

The 12th Volume of the SDABC (Bible Commentary) - that's the Handbook of SDA Theology, insists that he was not... Is that a wise disagreement with accepted Christian thought from early on till Ellen White's death - after which we changed the wording?

A rather complicated topic, I should think. A corollary of Christ's eternal preexistence would seem to preclude a 'beginning,' such as is implied in Sonship. Personally, I believe that Christ had always existed as One with 'Eloah' but, at some point in time, voluntarily, perhaps even at His own instigation, He took upon Himself the status of Sonship and, at a later time, the special relationship with His people as Yahweh. Now, as for 'accepted Christian thought' are you referring to the Nicene Creed?

I don't know if "proving" the Trinity is a worthwhile thing, as it goes in circles with semantics when discussing the topic from the perspective of our Creator being the One True Living God - the I AM that I AM.

I tend to approach the topic from the perspective of a three-dimensional hand interacting with a two-dimensional circle...the lack of the circle's ability to "see" beyond two dimensions causes the interacting fingers of one three-dimensional hand to be observed as one or more separate entities intersecting the two-dimensional world.

Thus, One Creator who is outside our 4-dimensional perceptions of space-time (3 dimensions of space, 1 of time) could be seen as interacting as 3 separate, individual beings intersecting the limited confines of our perceptions/observations of Creation.

That each "intersection" would carry the exact same identity and character of the whole could not be disputed, as also the point each would appear to have a different function in our existence as well. This would be in firm keeping with what we see in the New Testament regarding God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

There...the nerdy, geeky perspective of the Trinity...but it works for me how Three can be One, yet Three, all at the same time, in their intersection with Creation.

Then, there's the point of plurality when God talks to Himself regarding the creating of Man in Gensis...

At the present time, Jesus is a prince, our prince. During the Time of the End he will receive his Kingdom, namely us and our forlorn planet. At that time he becomes the ruler of the Earth, and its good king, then begins the process of turning our ruined world into a tropical greenhouse paradise.

We shouldn't be too shocked if we find out there are other kingdoms out there in space somewhere, with their respective kings.

Maybe the HS is limited to our sphere, maybe it is unbounded. For us, anyway, the Team of Three controls our destinies.

I couldn't agree more. This is one of those issues which we can spend our time and energy dissecting and discussing till the cows come home. However, in all likelihood will understand until we reach the new earth.

And, that's not a bad thing.

I spent the last year or so studying the subject of the nature of Jesus Christ. For what it's worth, the Bible directly calls Jesus "God" in a number of verses. For instance, the only legitmate way to translate the Greek of John 1:1, Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 is that He is God, and that is why virtually all modern translations of those verses read that way. (See NKJV and NIV and compare them with any standard Greek grammars that discuss those verses.)

When it comes to the writings of Ellen White, she wrote in Patriarchs and Prophets that Jesus was the Jehovah of the Old Testament. It is interesting to compare the latest Greek editions of the New Testament at 1 Corinthians 10: 9, where the word Christ is in the place of Lord, or Kurios, meaning that it was Christ whom the Israelites tested in the Wilderness and died from snake bites. By the way, that is how the vast majority of ancient Greek manuscripts read as well as the most ancient, manuscript P46, that is dated AD 200. The translations that read "Lord" do so primarily on the basis of two 4th century manuscripts from Alexandria, the Vaticanus and the Siniaticus.

Dozens of other verses might be referred to as teaching plainly that Christ is fully God.

Quote: "When it comes to the writings of Ellen White, she wrote in Patriarchs and Prophets that Jesus was the Jehovah of the Old Testament."

Meaning Jesus and Jehovah is the SAME person. There Could be No Trinity. Right?

It is clear from a careful study of the Pentateuch, in comparison with the gospels, that Jesus and Jehovah are, indeed, one and the same. However, Christ is the second person of the Godhead. The Godhead is described in the OT as 'Elohim,' the plural of 'Eloah.' Yahweh is the second person of the Godhead, Christ, the express image of the Father's person. The HOly Spirit is the third Person.

Dave

Hi yongttay

Can you please give us an exact page number in Patriarchs and prophets where you stated that Ellen White said "Jesus was the Jehovah of the Old Testament?" I would be interested to read the context of her statement there.