Read chapter 15: At the Marriage Feast online.

[This chapter is based on John 2:1-11.]

This chapter, among other things, contains some awesome counsel about our need to interact with others to bring them the good news. I posted several portions of it in the thread "Separation Required?" under Bible & Theology because it was so relevant and pertinent thereto.

Since no one joined the discussion on chapter 14 I thought I'd just keep going ... hopefully others will be motivated to join in again.

Quote:

---

"Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now."

---

It just doesn't make sense to me that this wine is supposedly unfermented. The reason that a man would serve the good wine first is so that once his guests are drunk, they won't notice the difference.

I'm assuming, of course that the first time the word wine is used in this passage is of the same translation as the last time it is used.

I wonder about that too. Unfortunately, the previous mention of wine in the old testament is the Hebrew "yy!" and in the new testament it's the Greek "oinos".

I was thinking about this chapter today as I went to a surprise b-day party for a friend of mine. There was a diverse group there including a lesbian couple, Buddhists, and my buddy who is Catholic. My friend's brother, a kilt-wearing body piercer, just came up to me and gave me a hug. I was like wow. He totally made me feel welcome since I didn't know many people there. I felt badly for how aloof and distant I was being. I thought, how important the counsel is in this chapter as Nico mentioned.

Quote:

---

We should all become witnesses for Jesus. Social power, sanctified by the grace of Christ, must be improved in winning souls to the Saviour. Let the world see that we are not selfishly absorbed in our own interests, but that we desire others to share our blessings and privileges. Let them see that our religion does not make us unsympathetic or exacting. Let all who profess to have found Christ, minister as He did for the benefit of men.

---

Quote:

---

...There was a diverse group there including a lesbian couple, Buddhists, and my buddy who is Catholic. My friend's brother, a kilt-wearing body piercer, just came up to me and gave me a hug...

---

I suspect Jesus would have welcomed the opportunity to interact with these kinds of people, many of whom are closer to the Kingdom than professed religionists.

This is the great challenge, to see good in people that aren't like us, don't think like us, or who have evil forces influencing them to think and do selfish, harmful, evil things.


As far as the wine goes, we don't have enough information to know for sure what it was. It could have been non-alcoholic wine, or it could have been real wine, or something we've never heard of that tasted like wine.

Here's something I've been wondering about:

How did Mary know Jesus was capable of miracles? Did he perform private "miracles" to support her after he was on the road? I say "miracles" because forces exist that we do not comprehend, so being unable to explain them because of our limited understanding of his technology, we call them "miracles". The Holy Spirit was his unseen partner, and this, I believe, was how Jesus performed miracles, including mind reading. The latter, he does throughout his ministry.

One of the key thoughts in this chapter is this:

Like good wine followed by cheap wine, the world gives us things and stuff, which never satisfy. We always want more.

Quote:

---

The gifts of Jesus are ever fresh and new. Each new gift increases the capacity of the receiver to appreciate and enjoy the blessings of the Lord.

---

Quote:

---

Like good wine followed by cheap wine, the world gives us things and stuff, which never satisfy. We always want more.

---

I could try to restate this a little better:

The gifts of Jesus are like good wine that is pleasant and satisfies; the stuff the world gives us is like cheap wine that leaves us empty, with a bad taste in our mouths, yet we still want more.

Here’s one of the reasons why I think God is a time-traveler:

Quote:

---

“Before he came to earth, the plan lay out before Him, perfect in all its details. But as He walked among men, He was guided, step by step, by the Father’s will. He did not hesitate to act at the appointed time.”

---

God must have either viewed, or traveled to the future, to determine what needed to be done to fix things on Earth so that the forces of good would triumph and the forces of evil would be destroyed.

Most important, Jesus had to suppress his human tendency towards selfishness and sacrifice himself for the good of mankind. This was necessary so that he could be the ruler of the Restored Kingdom of New Earth. Any misstep or failure would have disqualified him from any leadership position, just like Adam’s capitulation, and even barred him from the work of scanning the life records of humans to determine who is worthy to admit into the new kingdom.

The human race would have faced a bleak, joyless future, and ultimately, annihilation, without the pardon and healing from the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit team. This is the future the faithless and unbelievers must face.

Yet, without this little laboratory of a world’s demonstration of the true nature and consequences of rebellion against God and it’s partnership with evil, the great controversy may have lasted much, much longer. What would God have done with us if Jesus had not consented to rescue those who wanted to be purified from contamination with the virus of evil?

I agree that Mary must have known something to ask of her son.

We serve a God who just loves us so much and thrills at giving us good gifts at every turn. Jesus knew what He was doing when he performed his first miracle for us. He is concerned with all our social interactions. He desires us to give and share with each other. How we treat each other is profoundly important in the books of heaven. Our little camcorder angels records with great interest how we really love each other and show it.
And even though 'whatsisname' thinks the worse when the word LOVE is used. Jesus(John 17) and John(John 1,2,and3rd letter) used that word alot in describing our heart intent.

When we say LOVE we dont mean the mustang ranch! Silly Goose! We mean 1 Cor 13..... I still cant forget his comment(another thread). the mindset is daft!

Well anyway I digress.

In heaven they Love each other and Love god supremly.
When I see the Marriage Miracle of wine. I see God doing it out of pure love and joy to the friends and family there.
There wasnt a threat or a woe or a death. It was a gift just like His BIRTH and DEATH.


Im glad I was able to post!

Nice to meet you, G4G.

Another idea I liked in this chapter was the contrast between Jesus' ministry and that of the religious leaders. Their love of formalism and tradition destroyed any freedom of thought and action.

It's not a problem unique to those times. We need to watch out for that, too, in our own church services. Sometimes I think that church attendance may be more of a curse than a blessing. More like a membership in a social club than a center for spreading the teachings of Jesus. Then there's the canned SS lessons. We'd all be better off studying the Bible. The Bible alone offers protection from committing evil acts and thoughts.

The religious leaders of that time lost touch with the common people, and instead of seeking to be a blessing to them, they lived in fear of being contaminated by the very people they were supposed to be bringing closer to God. Even though they thought they were so much better: more power, money, stuff, bigger houses, etc., by being so selfish, they dwarfed their minds and constricted their sphere of influence for good until it was non-existent. They suffered and taught egotism and intolerance, spreading it among all classes of people.

When Jesus arrived on the scene, his message was alien to nearly everyone, until he awakened the spark of unselfish love in some of those he encountered. Little by little, the spark would grow until it ignited the understanding that the only thing that really counts in this world is the good we do for others. One doesn't keep score, although God does. It's just something that one wants to do, whether there's a reward or not.

I think this is probably the most important idea of this chapter. Sympathize with others, be interested in them, and value their worth as potential members of the Kingdom of the Stars. Seek people out to bless them with kindness and friendship. Jesus didn't preach sermons from a pulpit in a formal stand-up, sit-down setting, but instead taught individuals, mostly one-on-one, whenever he could. That method has the greatest impact on an individual.

If we can get rid of our life-shrinking selfishness and related lack of self-confidence, we are already standing at the gates of the Kingdom.