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#507801 - 12/31/11 12:49 AM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: Igakusei]
Mark Aurelius Offline
I have already made 100 posts

Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 170
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted By: Igakusei
Well, marine algae are about as closely related to land plants as you can get without actually being a land plant.

Reading the article, it looks like an excellent example of exaptation as well.


True. It seems very close, so not very impressive. However it shows how fluid the tree of life is. That tree is not made of lignin. bwink


Edited by Mark Aurelius (12/31/11 12:51 AM)

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#507816 - 12/31/11 01:48 AM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: Igakusei]
Mark Aurelius Offline
I have already made 100 posts

Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 170
Loc: Queensland, Australia
All right, a more impressive case of protein "convergence" is given here:

http://www.pnas.org/content/95/20/11804.full.pdf

Not that I read all of that, but to quote Sarfati (1) who cites New Scientist who cite PNAS: "An antigen receptor protein has the same unusual single chain structure in camels and nurse sharks, but this cannot be explained by a common ancestor of sharks and camels".

1) http://creation.com/refuting-evolution-chapter-6-humans-images-of-god-or-advanced-apes#f11


Edited by Mark Aurelius (12/31/11 01:50 AM)

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#507926 - 12/31/11 01:08 PM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: Igakusei]
Aliensanctuary Online   content


Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 1236
Loc: Northern California
Here's a link to an interesting discussion about Living Fossils.

http://creation.com/werner-living-fossils

Quote:
...Many modern animals in dinosaur rock!

I asked Carl just how many modern types of animals he had found in the dinosaur rock layers.

“We found fossilized examples from every major invertebrate animal phylum living today including: arthropods (insects, crustaceans etc.), shellfish, echinoderms (starfish, crinoids, brittle stars, etc.), corals, sponges, and segmented worms (earthworms, marine worms).

“The vertebrates—animals with backbones such as fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals—show this same pattern.”

Modern fish, amphibians and reptiles

“Cartilaginous fish (sharks and rays), boney fish (such as sturgeon, paddlefish, salmon, herring, flounder and bowfin) and jawless fish (hagfish and lamprey) have been found in the dinosaur layers and they look the same as modern forms.

“Modern-looking frogs and salamanders have been found in dinosaur dig sites."

“All of today’s reptile groups have been found in the dinosaur layers and they look the same or similar to modern forms: Snakes (boa constrictor), lizards (ground lizards and gliding lizards), turtles (box turtles, soft-shelled turtles), and crocodilians (alligators, crocodiles and gavials).”

Modern birds

“Contrary to popular belief, modern types of birds have been found, including: parrots, owls, penguins, ducks, loons, albatross, cormorants, sandpipers, avocets, etc. When scientists who support evolution disclosed this information during our TV interviews it appears that they could hardly believe what they were saying on camera.”

Mammals

“At the dinosaur dig sites, scientists have found many unusual extinct mammal forms such as the multituberculates but they have also found fossilized mammals that look like squirrels, possums, Tasmanian devils, hedgehogs, shrews, beavers, primates, and duck-billed platypus.”


“Few are aware of the great number of mammal species found with dinosaurs. Paleontologists have found 432 mammal species in the dinosaur layers; almost as many as the number of dinosaur species. These include nearly 100 complete mammal skeletons. But where are these fossils? We visited 60 museums but did not see a single complete mammal skeleton from the dinosaur layers displayed at any of these museums.

Also, we saw only a few dozen incomplete skeletons/single bones of the 432 mammal species found so far. Why don’t the museums display these mammal fossils and also the bird fossils?”

Many modern plants in dinosaur rock!

“In the dinosaur rock layers, we found fossils from every major plant division living today including: flowering plants, ginkgos, cone trees, moss, vascular mosses, cycads, and ferns. Again, if you look at these fossils and compare them to modern forms, you will quickly conclude that the plants have not changed. Fossil sequoias, magnolias, dogwoods, poplars and redwoods, lily pads, cycads, ferns, horsetails etc. have been found at the dinosaur digs.”


Quote:
Evolutionary story telling ‘unsinkable’?

I asked Dr Werner how evolutionary scientists deal with this evidence, given these remarkable findings. Dr Werner remarked, “If you whole-heartedly believe in a theory, you will always be able to sustain that belief—even in the face of contradictory evidence—by adding a rescue hypothesis to that theory.

For example, if a scientist believes in evolution and sees fossils that look like modern organisms at the dinosaur digs, he/she might invent an hypothesis to ‘explain’ living fossils this way: ‘Yes I believe that animals have changed greatly over time (evolution), but some animals and plants were so well adapted to the environment that they did not need to change. So I am not bothered at all by living fossils.’

This added hypothesis says that some animals did not evolve. But if a theory can be so flexible, adding hypotheses that predict the opposite of your main theory, one could never disprove the theory. The theory then becomes unsinkable, and an unsinkable theory is not science.”
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#518869 - 01/30/12 01:33 PM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: Mark Aurelius]
sweng Online   content
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 87
Originally Posted By: Mark Aurelius
Originally Posted By: Igakusei
Well, marine algae are about as closely related to land plants as you can get without actually being a land plant.

Reading the article, it looks like an excellent example of exaptation as well.


True. It seems very close, so not very impressive. However it shows how fluid the tree of life is. That tree is not made of lignin. bwink


"The tree of life is an artifact of some early scientific studies that aren't really holding up...So there is not a tree of life."

Craig Venter at ASU

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/03/venter_vs_dawkins_on_the_tree_044681.html


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#520091 - 02/03/12 03:32 PM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: sweng]
Igakusei Online   content


Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 1634
Sweng, do you think before you post?

http://biologos.org/blog/dueling-scientists-and-the-tree-of-life-analyzing-the-id-response

Your puppetmasters are lying to you, and you're defending them. I'm still waiting for you to reply to the last couple links of yours that I ripped to shreds and you quietly tiptoed away from.
_________________________
I believe in life before death

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#520431 - 02/04/12 01:27 AM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: Igakusei]
sweng Online   content
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 87
My only minder is Jesus Christ!

What Craig Venter said at ASU

http://thesciencenetwork.org/programs/the-great-debate-what-is-life/what-is-life-panel

"The tree of life is an artifact of some early scientific studies that aren't really holding up...So there is not a tree of life."

FYI

http://www.nwcreation.net/videos/Whatever_Happened_To_Darwins_Tree_Of_Life.html

Dr Rose said: "The tree of life is being politely buried – we all know that. What's less accepted is our whole fundamental view of biology needs to change."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/43123...scientists.html

What the evidence shows is more like a lawn with bushes, which matches the fossil record, and the Bible prdicts.

Remember,

Creationists believe in LUCA ( they were on the ark) and
evolution.

The facts of evolution.

Populations have genetic variation that continuously arises by undirected processes (mutation and recombination)

Populations evolve by changes in gene frequencies through:
Genetic drift
Gene flow
Natural selection

Most adaptive variants have slight phenotypic effects, so that phenotypic changes are gradual

Diversification arises by speciation (cladogenesis), usually occurring via gradual evolution of reproductive isolation.

Recently Perry Marshall has updated the above to reflect current science and has given additional support for evolution as a fact;

“Evolution is for real. And it operates through six major mechanisms:

1. Horizontal Gene Transfer – cells exchange DNA with each other to get new code they need so they can adapt to their environment.
2. Transposition – cells re-arrange their own DNA, sometimes dramatically, to respond and adjust.
3. Symbiogenesis – separate organisms merge together and reproduce in lockstep, often becoming one organism.
4. Epigenetics – organisms switch genes on and off as necessary, passing learned traits to their offspring.
5. Genome Multiplication – DNA can “double its hard drive space” by doubling itself, paving the way for huge evolutionary changes in the future
6. DNA obeys a strict mathematical matrix similar to “checksums” in computer networks and programs. (Only much more elegant and sophisticated.) This reduces errors and creates a set of rails for evolution to run on.”

These are the “facts” of evolution (change)..

The hypothesis that the above will produce more complex life
is not supported by the data.



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#521317 - 02/06/12 01:56 AM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: sweng]
teresaq(sda) Offline
Learning to take it to Jesus


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 8411
Loc: Same as home church
Originally Posted By: sweng

4. Epigenetics – organisms switch genes on and off as necessary, passing learned traits to their offspring.
I have been wondering about that. So if parents have been prideful yet get the victory and learn to be humble, for example, they will then pass on humility to their children...
_________________________
2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

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#521399 - 02/06/12 05:30 PM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: teresaq(sda)]
Igakusei Online   content


Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 1634
Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)
Originally Posted By: sweng

4. Epigenetics – organisms switch genes on and off as necessary, passing learned traits to their offspring.
I have been wondering about that. So if parents have been prideful yet get the victory and learn to be humble, for example, they will then pass on humility to their children...


No, not really. It also contributes far less to genetic change over time than Creationist try to make it out to be. It was blogged about a lot last year, I'm sure googling around a bit will find some good articles for you. I know that Jerry Coyne and the guys at Panda's Thumb both covered it a few times.
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#521995 - 02/08/12 02:52 PM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: teresaq(sda)]
sweng Online   content
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 87

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#522028 - 02/08/12 04:58 PM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: sweng]
teresaq(sda) Offline
Learning to take it to Jesus


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 8411
Loc: Same as home church
Originally Posted By: sweng
FYI back at you, and feel free to share your thoughts. :)

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post519625

Oh, and I had been wondering about parents overcoming certain traits and their children no longer susceptible to inheriting those traits based on certain comments by EGW, not from the series by Melashenko.


Edited by teresaq(sda) (02/08/12 05:03 PM)
_________________________
2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

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#532014 - 03/13/12 10:39 AM Re: Was the Cambrian Explosion really an 'Explosion?' [Re: teresaq(sda)]
Twilight II Offline


Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 1513
Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)
Originally Posted By: sweng

4. Epigenetics – organisms switch genes on and off as necessary, passing learned traits to their offspring.
I have been wondering about that. So if parents have been prideful yet get the victory and learn to be humble, for example, they will then pass on humility to their children...


Interesting question, what does Ellen White say on this?

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