why are adventist men particularly virgins, so afraid of women who are born again christians? Who have a history of sexual partners? why do they feel that if they enter into a relationship with a woman who has had numerous partners so concerned that she will built standards for him basing it off her past relationships? That is not the case...

The two are not compatible-

being Christian and having multiple partners.

1. Multiple partners can be a dangerous health issue in this brave new world in which we live - #1.

2. Born again Christian men and women are out there from a number of different denominations. Many of them are wonderful people -- no doubt about it. But the ideal is to find a partner that shares our view of the Bible, and the goal and mission of God's church in the last days.

3. Parents of children where both parents are of the same doctrinal POV and denomination - still struggle to find agreement from time to time on how to raise children and what values to pass on to them regarding the future and what is right vs wrong. That problem can be magnified many fold if you try to do the same thing across denominational boundaries. It can be done - but much more of a challenge.

in Christ,

Bob

I am am not a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.. I am a NEW Christian. A NEW CREATION IN CHRIST JESUS!

The question is not targetted at Doctrinal issues... I've become a christian 4 years ago and converted to SDA 8 months ago... as an Adventist I share the same beliefs... this is not the issue. The issue is that adventist men seem afraid to go into a relationship with the likes of me. The church i started out in was nondenominational... young men seemed to understand that NOBODY is perfect... and that we all come to know Christ from different walks of life... Now that I am adventist and open up to a guy.. he seems insecure... they seem to feel that somehow I will put standards for him to meet that are based on my past NON Christian Relationships.. When the fact of the matter is THAT WAS THEN!! NOW I am a christian.. AN ADVENTIST. I do not view relationships, sex, marriage, etc the same as i did before I encountered God. Why is this so hard for adventist men to understand?

I would certainly be concerned about the past. But if I loved the woman enough - I would quiz her and seriously question whether she had changed and was committed to a new belief and life.

While I can't know for sure with the constraints of the internet - I sense that you are defensive in having someone "quiz" you in this manner. But since some value marriage SO much - the quizzing must be done.

SHASA

i am not sure how big of S.D.A. church you attend and
how many single men are in the church...but if you chat
here on this forum I am sure that the single men
night be more open to your past...we all have
past to over come and we need to all look to the
future of our life's in JESUS CHRIST

dgrimm60

Woody

I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time you have to take into perspective that the past does not identify who I am(or any other christian) today, the past molded me, yes. It is because of the person who I was before that I am more cautious more on guard and discerning of who I talk to who I hang out with etc. My standards with men are definitely high compared to how they were before I accepted Christ. Those standards arose with becoming a christian and understanding what kind of husband God wants for me (or any christian woman particularly adventist) to have. The quizzing i do not mind.. in fact I encourage it! I want that man to see that I AM A COMMITTED WOMAN, TRANSFORMED by the Grace of GOD, and follow the teachings of JESUS. My issue is more that the man is insecure about my past, even after being reassured that I will not base ANY standard on him that ties to the men from my past. My standards are all based on the principles that Jesus teaches. Will a christian man not see me for who I am today? Who I am in CHRIST? Will he always look to my past? Quiz me all you want. I value marriage the same as any other Adventist man or woman who was raised ADVENTIST.

Dgrimm,
The adventist church I attend barely has any single MEN! But iv been to enough conferences and talked to enough adventist men to get a grasp at how some of them view relationships... majority of them will not accept a woman if she isnt a virgin.. and the ones who claim that they will accept a woman who isnt virgin have insecurity issues.

How would they know of the multiple partners? It seems that that particular subject should be something that would come up after the relationship had gotten deeper not upon entering? If the depth of the relationship suddenly dissolves after revealing this information then it probably wouldn't have been a good choice anyway. If the relationship goes DOA with the info revelation then maybe the choice to bring it up was necessarily premature.Born again Christians should focus on the future not the past.

There was a guy where he and i grew close as friends. Of course there was attraction from both sides... we came close to going into a relationship, but There were several times where he questioned if he should enter into a relationship with me, and most of what was holding him back was my past. He didnt know if he can handle knowing how many men I;v been with before him. Then he just started basing a lot of things from my past relationships. This is just one guy... if he is attracted to me and has to go through a phase where he questions if he should enter into a relationship with me because of my past, makes me wonder how many others will do the same. So my past will hinder them from going into a relationship with me. I trust God works all things out for our good, but even as a new creation in Christ, on experience such as this one, puts me in a hopeless place.

I am no prophet - but I can always be a messenger.

And from my viewpoint - you will always be in a hopeless place if you maintain this attitude.

SASHA

IF a S.D.A. christian man is connected to JESUS CHRIST
then the past should not be a concern...

what age group are you in and what age group
are you looking to have a relationship with

but please do not give up hope

dgrimm60

If you are willing to be a messenger, make sure your message is an for edification of others, that will lift them up. (Eph 4:29)

I agree that the past should not be a concern, but in my experience it showed to be. But that's ok, because that is also due to lack of grounded spirituality.

I am 25

I am not going to give up hope, it's a process of growth for me as well. I appreciate your words of encouragement

SASHA

well good for you i will be praying for you
and as you get ground in the bible truth

dgrimm60

Hi, Sasha

I sympathize with your plight and I don't have any easy answers for you.

I, too, came into the church from the world. I was an unwed, pregnant teenager who lived in a drug dealer house.

I suppose that the first thing you are learning is the hard life lesson that just because you would like to be married, it doesn't always happen that way... It's like that also for the singles who are older and find themselves on the wrong end of a divorce.

I'm glad that you know the world's BEST lover- Jesus!

As far as biding your time goes, don't lose hope. Enjoy your singleness as best you can. It most likely won't be a permanent state :)

Your sexual past might be one thing that the men are afraid of... but is there something else also? Do the men understand what it was that led you into the life you found yourself in? Do they realise your struggle, your loneliness, your pain, whatever it was that drove you? (I have no idea, those are just examples)

I have a feeling that if someone would stick around long enough to get to know the real you, the inside you, they would value your friendship more. Those take time to develop. You're young- too young to give up yet! :)

I thank God that you have renounced your past sexual sins! Praise God that we are REBORN in Him! :)

If God has made you into a new creation, there's no real reason that the men you meet have to know all about your previous relationships with men, particularly sexual relations.

I also agree with Doug Yowell, that you shouldn't talk about your past relationships until you have established a fairly good, trusting relationship with someone.

Think of how you would feel if the guy started off telling you that he'd been with numerous women over the years.

There are some things that are just better off left unsaid. Keep those things between yourself and God. If you have been forgiven and you are no longer being promiscuous or sexually active, and if your sexual experiences are all completely in the past, there's really no need to go into those things. Leave well enough alone.

Gail Thank you for your encouraging words! And I am so Thankful you found Christ and came to know Him.

Just to clarify, I dont exactly open up to every Adventist guy who tries to get to know me.. Iv shared my testimony on numerous occasions, mostly for edification, also most of the guys I talk to know that I am a new christian, and so they expect that I have a past. I've only really opened up to a few men, one guy particularly I have grown found of and we have established a close relationship. I have never opened up to someone like this. He is the only guy Ive ever trusted and he knows every detail there is to know of my past...every flaw, every mistake, every regret, everything joyful, everything good, everything bad. i mean EVERYTHING.. what lead me from one thing to another, reasons behind my actions, reasons why i let myself be used.. whatever there was to bring to the table.. he knew. Somewhere along the line I got attracted to him, and I think it was because I saw the genuine guy that he was (which today are rare) that I really grew to trust him. I think my failure was that I was hoping for something to happen between us so I put my hopes in our growing relationship... But it turned out things did exactly turn out that way... I thought I was helping him understand women and how they are transformed in Jesus... but even though he did see it, it also left him insecure in a few areas... as a result this leaves me wondering of course, how many will i have to go through? I appreciate that he values me as a friend... but thats about all the value I'll be. you see my disposition? none the less, I will be steadfast in the promise of God, that He will not leave me nor forsake me.

I understand what you are trying to say when you say "some things are better left unsaid", but I guess some people are different in this area. I believe in straight forward honesty, up front, and open. And saying this I do not mean come up to me, skip the introduction and get to know me, and spill me your story. This of course is only if I know a guy is interested in me and I am also in him for the purpose of a possible relationship. I would like for him to be open with me from the beginning, I think that helps to establish a foundation with a pillar of trust. If he would wait to tell me until later in the relationship, I thinkI would feel less assured of our foundation. I'll understand if he wants to wait for the right time or what not, I will not pressure him, but at least I know that he trusts me well enough, he just needs the time to gather up his courage. Some people have a hard past, some people have a light past, the past is the past and its hard to talk about the past regardless of how hard or light it was. My past was hard. But I believe it is because I have endured so much that I would more likely understand who he was and thinks he had to endure, and not pass judgment, instead I would value him MORE for who he is NOW! A New creation!!! It's God's grace that sat him FREE! This is a joy that I would love to share with him from the beginning! It's the common thing that brings us together! The Joy of the Lord.

ughh.. i cant seem to get these "quote" things right. forgive me!

Hi Sasha.. sorry I have not not posted but have been following your story, and it is interesting and 'real'.

The quote things work like this / means off, for almost any html code.

Here is an opening and closing quote..

Well, God bless your heart, Sasha! If YOU at 25 are having problems making sense of it all, think of us who are still trying to figure it out a couple of decades later!

((( Sasha )))

That's the craziest thing I have ever heard. I am not calling you a liar, it just seems crazy that there are guys out there with that mindset.

I was talking with several of my single SDA female friends today. it seems they all have a laundry list of what they want to find in a man. Looks, money and a good job are on top of the list.
That's like going fishing in the ocean and hoping a specific type of fish is going to get on your hook.

I have met women like that, looking for the perfect man they read about in their childhood, they are now in their 70's and yet to find him.

.... sounds just like the world's priorities. But all those things are fleeting. Nothing about character, kindness, integrity, faith in Christ, missionary spirit, Bible study, lifestyle choices or hope in the second coming in the top three?

Well Gordon, personally my ideal man would possess the qualities which you listed.

Looks go away
Money can go away
Good jobs go away

Character is forever

It seems like a lot of ladies have this in mind. Maybe it is an American thing because ladies overseas seem to not have that attitude.

Yes Naomi,

Sadly it's evident that the proper understanding & context of marriage has not been taught in the ranks,
though it can be searched out in the SOP.
Social relations, life goals, discretion, selection, courtship, etc. A solid foundation for life.

Does it matter?

I'll venture it's a most neglected part of the Advent message.
How many lives are ill affected by following the world's standard?

And then imprinted on the next generation.

Sasha has real-life questions, but the answers should be front & center in the Church - common knowledge, not a few meager resources, hard to locate. So the members, esp. new converts, are awash in a confusion of standards and tradition. Biblical views are lightly esteemed - the pressure from media and society has molded our thoughts & feelings, but not according to God's order.

Big topic.

Gordon I do agree it is a very BIG topic.



And moreover, agree that it has been sadly neglected.

And on the other side of the coin is what men look for in women. Most normal females cannot fit the airbrushed pictures the media presents as the ideal woman.

Gee, I am becoming depressed ...............

Deep subject

The older I get the less looks mean to me. Of course I have to be attracted to her but I am not expecting her to look like a supermodel(but it would be nice). I wonder where women get the idea that all men want the same thing. Personality trumps looks. I have a really good friend, she wouldnt turn heads if she walked down the street, but I love her character and personality.

Thoughtful post, Gordon. We have tried to help young people understand the Biblical principles of dating/courting. I agree, there is a lot of lethargy regarding this important topic. Those who do it God's way have a greater measure of happiness and fulfillment. Those who have chose unwisely can ask God to bring good out of bad. He is willing to do this in the lives of those who love Him.

Choose wisely - treat kindly.


`G

Naomi, thankfully some recognize the gravity of the matter. It may be impossible for the Church to address the need, as the world's customs are so entrenched. The accepted mode of meeting, dating and marriage are below God's standard, so it's not surprising that unhappiness results. Back in the day God did not approve one marriage in 100, even 200 (EGW). What ratio have we reached today?

Olger mentions working with young people - possibly to encourage chastity until marriage, I don't know. Good advice, who can argue? But will this alone invite God's approval?

Compatibility & chastity are both good, but dedication to the Lord's service and soon coming will be a force greater than hormones in his chosen people. And the lives will show it. We can teach chastity to the young, but many are immersed in a world of media pornography 6 days a week, sometimes Sabbath too. Adults flirt, display their wares, ministers remarry. The only viable solution is that we 'must be born again'. This our greatest lack, and the reason for coldness, selfishness, imprudent relations.

When we fix the root problem, the tree can flourish. But just as marriage is approved on legal grounds ("no sex before"), church membership is based on doctrinal accord ("accept the 28"), not a changed mind. A man or woman with the mind of Christ will meet the highest qualifications. All the right behavior will come naturally.

Hmmm

There is something to be said about getting to know people in general. That is a good way to find the gems.

I wonder what these picky ones list as their attributes to offer to a marriage? Are they listed as well as the "I wants"?

I wonder if she ever found someone...

Yes Naomi, being so molded by advertising, both in the world and in the church, we seek these things of vanity. Men of all ages have been duped to worship fashion models rather than holiness and sobriety. But with hindsight many regret being snared by a women who flaunts her charms. Once married, what drew them becomes a threat to marital stability. They chose vanity, but with heavy consequences - paid for over generations, if we are honest. Beauty is nice, inner beauty is lasting.

With our knowledge we can seek discretion over flash.
A time of trouble awaits us.

Not depressed, but concerned to realize these subjects are not prominent with our people:

•Conversion
•Marriage
•Time of trouble

Sasha,

The most alluring characteristic of a woman is often her sense of MYSTERY. She doesn't tell everything she knows; she just enjoys the friendship of a new man in her life, and enjoys the things they do together. She's restrained when it comes to intimate things. If he wants to "know all about you" you can easily tell him your hopes and aspirations, but then ask him about HIS. You have no need EVER to tell him all about your past. That's not lying; it's just being sophisticated in your outlook. Talking too much is the mark of a juvenile.

"Today is the first day of the rest of your life." Just put the past behind you, and resolve to become interested in and acquainted with the finer things of life.

Jeannie that is excellent advice for ladies of all ages