When GOD created Man- a perfect man!

He knew He was alone!
He needed Somebody!

HE EVEN HAD GOD!
and that wasnt enough?

God Gave Adam a person to interact with
EVE!
and wahoooooo!

and still that wasnt enough!

GOD GAVE MEN A DEEP CORE DESIRE TO BOND with other Males!

i see it everywhere!

MEN FISHING TOGETHER
MEN HUNTING TOGETHER
PLAYING POKER
DRINKING
MEN PLAYING BALL
MEN CAMPING
MEN'S RETREAT!
MINISTRY
PRAYER BREAKFASTS
MEN CHASING THE PRETTY LADIES TOGETHER
WINGMAN
PARTNERS IN CRIME
GETAWAY DRIVER
MEN JUST HANGING OUT INFRONT OF A TACO TRUCK
AFTER WORK
POOL

MEN BEING MEN TOGETHER!

JESUS HAD 12 DISCIPLES NOT ONLY
TO USHER IN A WHOLE NEW WORLD
BUT TO BE TOGETHER
SLEEPING EATING WALKING LEARNING TALKING LISTENING

together!

PAUL AND SILAS
BARNABAS AND PAUL
BARNABUS AND MARK
PAUL AND SILAS

and he sent them out two by two

mark 6:7
Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them authority over evil spirits.


i see it the bible

GODS SUGGESTIONS?
NO
ITS RIGHT UP THERE WITH THE sacredness of marriage


u adam in a perfect state in a perfect world
needed relationship
with GOD
and others!

u see lone ranger christians here?






RUN FOREST RUN!

or tell me about your transparent connected support system of the same gender THAT REALLY FREAKIN KNOW U


MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eden and male/female bonding, male bonding and female bonding. Interconnectedness, intimacy. Knowing and being known. Accepting and being accepted, warts and all.

But I think this is about male bonding, interconnectedness, intimacy. David and Jonathon had that. Their souls were knit together says the scripture.

Does the bonding help with the relationship with God?

PARADE ORANGE

YES there is male to male boning---just as there is
female to female bonding and both have there place
in people relationships

but the bonding of man and female should go deeper that just
bonding as friends----the male and female bonding should
represent the bonding of people to GOD

dgrimm60

Well said Dgrimm

Good points dgrimm

OK


SO MUCH FOR MEN TALKING ABOUT MALE BONDING

THERE ARE SO MANY THREADS ADDRESSING
ROMANCE MARRIAGE
SACREDNESS
ECT

AND NOW ITS BROUGHT HERE

this is how it is between the men
no connection
no transparency
no real
bone on bone real men fellowship for healing and growth

its just as sacred as marriage

this place is not REAL where it counts
to the core:)

gbu all

Have you ever bonded as deeply with another man as David did with Jonathon?

Is there a need in men to deeply bond with other men?

Is there a need in women to bond deeply with other women?

I don't believe superficialities are what is being referred to. I have friends who I have deeply bonded with, sharing my innermost being with. I believe that is what PO is trying to discuss here.

men bonding with men....hmmmmmmm....

Ok, I'll bite....

HOW does bonding between men occur?

and while I'm at it, WHAT is concidered bonding?


and boy and girls...we are limiting this to MALE bonding...if'n you are desiring to talk about male/female bonding, go start yer own thread...please...

There are no other men in my man cave. Just me.

I wonder if this could be a touchy subject? I think PO is hoping we can get past that to think about this issue, perhaps it is a need, in men (and by extension women).

(Yeah, I know I'm a woman, so am just trying to help the discussion along a bit...or perhaps the need to know and be known by other humans is universal)

The male/female bonding of husband and wife is special and not to be substituted with friend bonding.

God created Eve for the intimate friend bonding with Adam...but was it intended that both should have deep bonding with others, who of course would be their children, but as they became adults?


Do we settle for superficiality when we could go deeper? Is it scary to go deeper?

I think it is fear that keeps many men from really bonding with other men. I read in a men's ministry book that most men do not have close male friends. When asked who is there best friend is, many men name a high school friend they haven't seen in years. Many men are afraid to let others really know them. They are afraid to open up emotionally to another man and so they keep their male "friends" are arm-length.

That is not the case with me. I am a man's man. I love being with guys and doing all those things Parade Orange listed,,, and more. I am too sexually attracted to women so unless they are ugly, I just can't hang around them too much unless we are in a group setting. I could never go fishing with a woman or to a ballgame - just her and I - unless she was my wife. But another guy... Yes, let's go.

Good Points Shane.

So, Redwood, you are not in a male bonding ...attitude?

I have lots of good male friends... but most of them are on the web. Still men who help me learn to be a better man, though.

lack of male bonding as safe place prevents men from healing

no growth


stagnet

Ok, PO.....

since no one is willing to answer this, I will ask you....

How do men bond?

is it more than just doing stuff together?
Is it more than just hanging out in a man cave?

Excellent question Neil. For me an example of male bonding would be from the Bible! David and Jonathon for one. Probably others but can't think of them at the moment. I think I have an idea at where your going with this question for PO.

Some think the relationship of Jonathan and David as a homosexual relationship.
I do not know how true this is. It is easy to understand this way in this western(esp. American) culture. In Meddle Eastern countries and Far Eastern countries have different culture. When I was growing up in Korea boys walked down the streets holding hands together and no one thought about this was a gay relationship then. In such a condition, a strong male to male bond can occur.
I suspect, David and Jonathan case is nothing but an intimate male to male bonding without sexually involved. This is hard to understand for the Westerners, but I have no problem. Since I came to this country I have been very careful not to get too intimate with my fellow male friends lest I be accused of being a gay person which I am not.

Won

I have very close male friends and we talk about everything except we don't analyze our friendship. We just do friendship.

If we show up and want to be together and do stuff then "duh" we're friends. We don't need verbal assurance and explanations to feel confident in our friendship.

Having been to Korea, and taught in the English language schools there, I too saw the bonding between males, holding hands, and walking down the street arm in arm...

....aaannd, I am afraid that I will disagree with Cardw if by "doing stuff" together we adult males instantly become bonded friends...

This is my opinion, and I am kinda trying to think outside the box, .... but I tend to think that there are various levels of friendships...We have acquaintances, good acquaintances, friends, and then there is bonding....

Bonding is the equivalent of the "BFF", which the straight western American man does not reach..I haven't seen it in Canada so can't speak to it.. While we were young, up to teens/pre-teens, we were experiencing the concept of "BFF"......before girls and thier "coodies" came and infected us....[pun is intended]. We young boys played baseball because the guys were there and it was what we wanted to do...and be good at...we were hanging out together... we were BFFs....

When we grew up and our interests turned toward the women, we lost the art of BFF...plus we left home, and our SDA culture encourage us to start homes with our mates....but as for BFFs, it was never nurtured but rather assumed...

Currently, Most of the experiences that men do together, are under the guise of acquaintances...."We do something together and we like each other." It doesn't take into consideration that the activity is shallow [handing out literature for evangelism], or the likes and dislikes of the other men, nor preferences. It occurs to me that bonding takes place while organizing something in which guys do something playful with minor competition....It is not a picnic, however if there is a picnic and baseball, or football, then bonding can take place if allowed...But many times, the forces of business, of competion pushes to the forfront and the process of BFF is circumvented......

These are just thoughts that I am throwing out there....expand or cut it up or rearrange or tear it down accordingly....

Jonathon and david bonding exceedeed a love between a man and a woman

there is safety,accountability/ and joy in it

there is healing
to have reflection in the male image

most men are lone rangers and have no healing in their lives

just starts and stops and no continuity

God bless u all

I had a couple of really really close friends, we did everything together.... the thought of sex with each never once crossed my mind...

PO, is there a Bible reference for this description of the strength of the bond between David and Jonathan (greater than that between a man and a woman) or is it just your opinion?

Graeme

I don't really think you can compare relationships. They're just different.

And I think it's a mistake to assume that every guy needs some kind of emotional healing. I am sure that some do. The point is once you have emotional healing you don't need it anymore.

I like being with people, but I don't need people most of the time. I enjoy giving to others and supporting others and I find joy in being with others, but I also really like solitude. The reason is because most people, including myself, make up stories in their heads that create or worsen their problems. There is a lot of illusions going on. I'm sympathetic, but I know most of it is a waste of energy. I like having a break from that. I don't need continuity.

There are times where I need support when I'm feeling down, but I don't want to analyze it or have anyone else analyze it because it takes me out of the moment. Most of the time just stating what I'm feeling and having someone listen is all I need to shift. I like being self sufficient as much as possible. I think that is healthy. It is too much work to be co-dependent.

Being real to me is being in the moment with no strings. And that is how I am with my closest friends. It's easy and it feels light and there's no drama. I don't need or want any emotional contracts. I feel very happy when I stay in each moment.

Great post cardw

Rich
I appreciate you being very real. Am sure it feels good.

Courage

To PO-
I tend to think your comment where men can have bonds closer than women...might be a bit overstating it...not to say that it isn't possible....I agree with cardw in that relationships, in one sense, are hard to compare to...And yes, they are diffinately different, everyone of them...because the people are unique and are different...but there are some commonalities...within cultures and from without..

RE: every guy needs some kind of emotional healing.

I am not saying that you are wrong in your statements regarding the emotional healing...I am sure you are correct when it comes to healing in general anyways...

How I tend to look at interpersonal relationships is more like food....And the philosophy that I have come to is that food is my medicine and my medicine is my food...If I eat too much, I get fat and I get sick from that fatness...and the lifestyle that goes with it...If I eat too little, I don't get enough, and am starving for food....I get thin, the electrolyte get abnormally low, and I suffer a heart-attack...And there are photo-nutrients that don't make it to our nutritional radar to get studied, due to minute but significant quantities to protect overall health..

And everyone is different in thier makeup...Some are introverts, and some are extroverts. There is no right or more right way to bond with other men...just so that they are getting enough of each other to function as whole men...and that they watch out for each other...

How do you feel about sharing feelings? with other men? How do you feel about talking about sexual subjects, like personal impotency, or, on a lighter note, just touching another man's arm in an assuring gesture? Most of these mores are from the western culture...where the john wayne manlyhood and code of the west stands out...but where men die alone...

I, quite frankly don't ever want to die alone....I say this because I think most men think this way, but done want to impign thier manhood....

I have male friends that I am very close to. Most of them I would pretty much put my life on the line for so to speak. Of those close friends there are some that is just understood, and we don't talk about much other than hockey, music, hiking and stuff like that. But we are still tight. A couple others I can talk to about anything and everything. To the best of my knowledge there is no sexual attraction. But thats because none of us - again to the best of my knowledge - are attracted to men.

That said I have female friends that fit all of that as well. Also no sexual attraction. Thats because we are mature enough to respect boundaries of marriage and relationships.

Just so I'm clear,

Just in case I misunderstand the point of this thread,

Homosexuality is a grievous sin before God. There is a very real limit to this male binding thing.

Otherwise, I have usually enjoyed male bonding in my life. Playing sports, watching the Super Bowl or listening to music. I have usually enjoyed male companionship more than that of women, although not always.

Until I became a Christian. My male friends didn't want me around anymore when I stopped drinking and eating pork (pepperoni for instance) and using profanity. They were quite uncomfortable with me.

Male bonding in the Seventh-day Adventist Church isn't as close or as beneficial. Way too mush politics for my taste. I am the one uncomfortable in this case.

Not talking about homosexuality here, Alchemy....We have described that the male bonding in the USofA appears to be less than an actuality than demonstrated.

Tis of note, that Jesus made the declaration that ALL men would be drawn to Him, and thus showed that He was more at home with the wine bibbers, prostitutes, tax collectors than the religious....

Why is it that we can not make the non-religious crowd more "comfortable" than the non-religious crowd? Perhaps the concept of male bonding is not as accepted as we thinks.

I think Alchemy has a point. SDA church culture is not conducive to bonding of any kind. I'm sure there are exceptions. Church is a high pressure gig. It's all about getting ready for Jesus coming and making sure everybody is good. It's about making sure you don't have the mark of the beast or are not too worldly.

It's about judgement. You can't bond under judgment. If you do bond, it's based on fear.

I like to laugh and joke and have a good time. That's considered bad in church culture. In SDA culture we have serious business to be about and we can't be wasting time joking when eternal lives are at stake.

The SDA culture has shifted, but this is the underlying current. We all know it's there and we can paste smiles on and pretend it's all loving, but there is something that is simply too self conscious about the whole gig. I'm not blaming anyone. It's rigged to be that way.

ITS NOT A MISTAKE

WE ARE ALL BROKEN

NO MAN IS FULLY INTERGRATED


IN A SIN SICK WORLD

MEN NEED MEN

gOD CREATED US THAT WAY
AND EVEN PERFECT
ITS NOT GOOD TO BE ALONE

GOD SAID THAT

THE SDA CHURCH CULTURE OF LONE RANGER CHRISTIANS IS BECAUSE THE DEVIL HAS HAD HIS WAY IN OUR WESTERN CULTURE

THERE IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE IN JESUS

THATS WHERE U BOND!

AS U SAY WE DONT BOND IN JUDGEMENT
JUDGEMENT FROM OTHERS FOR SURE

EGW SAYS
PRESS TOGETHER PRESS TOGETHER
AND THE bIBLE SAYS WE ARE NOT TO FORSAKE ASSEMBLY AS WE SEE HIS DAY APPROACHING

FOR ENCOURAGEMNET OF EACH OTHER

WE HAVE A SICK SDA CULTURE TO COMBAT

DAVID AND JONATHON STORY IS FOR MEN
ITS NOT THERE AS A MISTAKE OR A FOOTNOTE

SCARY ADVENTISTS EVERYWHERE DEFACING THE IMAGE OF GOD
TEARING THE IDEAL OF IMAGAE OF GOD APART AND ALL THE WHILE
MEN ARE ARMS LENGTH TO THEIR OWN PERIL WHILE HEAPING ABUSE ON EACH OTHER

THIS THREAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY
SOUNDS HOMOPHOBIC

NOTHING NEW FROM FROM CHRISTIAN MEN WHO OUR OUT OF TOUCH WITH THEMSELVES AND OTHERS

PO, please don't shout at us!



It's hard to focus on the message when you're being shouted at.

Graeme

i didnt mean to shout
though this place ignores my posts alot

i have a new puter which doesnt have a cap light

and i look down when i type

so ive been capping without meaning to on all facebook and and other forums

i apologize

You are forgiven PO.

PO, I was writing tic, that's why I put the smilie in!

No worries, I appreciate (really appreciate) your posts.

Graeme