I don’t know where the original posters in this forum have gone. Perhaps I have crowded them off, or they have lost interest, or there’s some other reason I can’t think of. I have missed their valuable input, but I continue to post ideas rather than let this “discussion” die. I have learned so much already from the chapters covered so far.

I do apologize to anyone offended or tired of hearing me go on about the science and technology in the Bible. For me, a logical explanation of miracles and “heavenly” transportation has been important, helping to explain a few mysteries, but it’s not what we need most of all, as Jesus informed Nicodemus in this chapter.

As part of the Religious Administration of the Nation of Israel, Nicodemus relied on his own self-confidence to make governmental descisions. Secure in the belief that his qualifications entitled him to a place in the New Kingdom, he never doubted his acceptance.

Then he went to listen to JTB. Already sadly aware of the bigotry and worldy ambition of his countrymen, he had hoped for conditions to be better when the Messiah should appear. Although he listend with interest at JTB's message of repentance and baptism, he thought he was already well qualified to be a part of the New Kingdom. He felt that God especially favoured him because of his liberal donations in supporting the Temple Service.

Like many others, Nicodemus, too, was disgusted with the Market Place Temple. He was there when Jesus blew off the merchants and administrators, then later saw him tending to the poor and healing the sick. Never had Nicodemus seen such looks of joy and words of praise. After studying the Messianic prophecies, he was convicted that Jesus was indeed the One Who Was to Come.

Recalling the past mistreatment of prophets who pointed out the sins of Israel, he was a voice of caution in the assemblies of the priests and rulers. Although the latter hated Jesus, he warned them not to take any action, lest they murder yet another prophet of God.

Nicodemus really wanted to talk to Jesus, but it would be extremely embarrassing for him to be seen in public with a relatively unknown teacher, not to mention the scorn he would face from the other members of the Ruling Council. He decided the best course was to meet with Jesus in secret.

Face-to-face with Jesus, Nicodemus started glad-handling him in order to impress him and set the tone of the interview. Unknown to him, with spirit power, Jesus read his mind. Although Nicodemus suffered from unbelief, Jesus saw a Seeker after Truth. Immune to Nicodemus' PR tactics, he saw clearly what he really needed, and told him so.

Nicodemus didn't need controversy or discussion of theories or technical information to enlighten his soul. What he really needed was to look and live. He needed spiritual regeneration and a new heart, not to have his curiosity satisfied. Only with new life from above can anyone appreciate things from above.

Irritated at the suggestion that he was not good enough for the coming Kingdom, and surprised out of his self-possession, he wondered how a person could be born from above. "Why is he not showing respect for my position in the Administration?" he wondered.

Jesus replied that he needed to be baptized with Water and the Spirit in order to enter the Kingdom. No human invention can prevent sin. Works alone, without new life from above, will result only in an invalid ticket to the Kingdom. Only a radical transformation of nature, a death to selfishness and sin, will result in a new life. This change cannot occur without the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God works like the wind, invisible, yet its power can be harnessed to effect change. It can be received by meditating upon Jesus, by reading the scriptures, or by hearing someone speaking the Truth. Suddenly, conviction takes hold, and the soul surrenders itself to God.

When the Spirit of God takes hold of you, your life will be transformed. You will turn away from evil thoughts and actions, anger, envy, and strife, and begin to experience love, humility, and peace. When we surrender ourselves completely to God, then we become a new being in the image of God.

There’s a learning curve to this. When we make a mistake, we experience the negative consequences, but can determine that next time, we will conquer our weakness, not by our own power, but by the power of the Spirit that is within us. As we begin to see victory over our evil natures, the power of the Spirit grows within us.

To enter the Kingdom of the Stars (Heavens) we must be 100% obedient to God. Anything less will repeat the same story of the Fall of Satan, the Fall of Man. God is looking for only those who overcome their evil natures, for this is the only cure for the Virus of Evil. Anyone who chooses evil cannot be permitted access to his Kingdom. Many are called, many could enter, but very few hear his voice and do what he asks.

We can read what God asks us to do. We can look up and believe. We can stand in front of Jesus on the Crystal Sea and receive a glowing, golden crown and a palm branch of victory. Forgotten will be the darkness and death of this life. All of our mistakes and pain will be deleted from our memories.

Don’t give up, just keep trying. Keep studying the Bible. Keep talking to God. Resist temptations to think or do evil. Ask Him how you can bless others. There are no miracles in the Bible, only technology we don’t understand. But this is a miracle: when our desires for evil are changed to desires for good.

Just some thoughts that occured to me as I read the chapter:

• Christ's teachings were of a humble carpenter to Nicodemus. Today they are esteemed as one of the world's greatest religious teachers.
• Like Adventism, Christ's teachings did not reflect the mainstream religious thought of the day
• Nicodemus did not comprehend the Spirit-filled life. For him obeying God's law was done through self-will and not as the result of a renewed heart.
• Nicodemus couldn't grasp a Spirit-led life. To him it was either obediance through self-will or disobedience.
• Just as the wind blows to and fro, for many there is not a specific day or time they can refer to as becoming "saved". For many, knowing the Lord is a gradual process which is hard to trace exactly how and when it happened.

The story focuses a lot on the symbolism of the serpant in the desert. The Israelites were saved by focusing on the that symbol of Christ. God has not changed. Salvation still comes to man by focusing on Christ. By focusing on Christ our hearts and desires are changed so "we can say with Christ, 'I delight to do Thy will, O my God' Ps. 40:8"

Like the Jewish leaders of old, some of us are sticklers for the letter of the law. We have the right day of worship, the right version of the bible (kjv), the right books (the red ones), the right diet, the right schools, the right doctrine, etc. What's missing is the right spirit, a spirit of infinite kindness and patience, tolerance of other's views or mistakes, and infinite forgiveness.

It's the sticklers and the nominal church-goers who will be puked out of the true church at the appointed time. The phony churches will all be swept away, replaced by something far different, far closer to God. It's the seekers of truth, those who want to obey God in spirit and in truth, who will take the place of those who were puked out, anyone unwilling to die for their faith. That's what it will come down to, either obey the government and sin or be true to God and die.

Nicodemus represents those locked into their belief systems, maybe looking for something better but not quite able to find it. Only when they hear the truth can they discard their old belief system and accept the new.

What is truth? Unless a man is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God. The big question is, How can we be born of water and spirit? Without this water and spirit, we will periodically crash and burn and drive others away from God out of meanness until it's too late.

We should ask God daily to give us this water and spirit so we don't kill someone's interest in spiritual matters by misrepresenting Him with our careless words and behavior. It's such a long, uphill road, though, trying to change old behaviors and patterns of thinking. Every step will be worth the trouble, though, once we leave this garbage can world to become a part of the beautiful Kingdom of the Stars.

"Nicodemus represents those locked into their belief systems, maybe looking for something better but not quite able to find it."

And, PTL, he didn't remain "locked into" those belief systems!! I think that Nicodemus represents how we, too, can change if we fully accept Christ into our lives. The story goes on to report that Nicodemus became a Christian after Jesus death, that he supported the new believers financially, and was fearless in his support of Christianity.

Earlier in life I was atheist/evolutionist. More recently I was ultra-ultra conservative, kind of like the Jewish leaders of Nicodemus' time. I lament the wasted time of those periods, but perhaps some of us need bad experiences to learn important lessons.

Maybe Nicodemus was a Closet Christian, or maybe a Fence Sitter. He seemed to agree in principle with Jesus' teachings, but he was unable to jump out of the box, maybe out of embarrassment of being known as a follower of an unknown, uneducated common laborer, or maybe from fear of ostracism and loss of prestige and money. He did "stick up" for Jesus at the religious councils, though, lest the leaders unwittingly shed the blood of another prophet, or possibly the real Messiah.

Nicodemus' defining moment came when he saw Jesus lifted up on the cross. He remembered Jesus' prediction and now shed his doubts and fears and believed in him completely.

Many anesthetized by SDA culture will have to leave the church or risk loss of life and liberty around the time of trouble. Like Nicodemus, others, looking for truth, unhappy with their own religion, will encounter their defining moment when hearing or reading spiritual truth, risking all to join other truth-seekers, not necessarily the SDA organization as we know it.

Like the truth that Jesus taught was not what the people were taught or expected, so will the truth of the last days be. It will come as surprise and catch many off-balance.

Quote:

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It's the sticklers and the nominal church-goers who will be puked out of the true church at the appointed time.

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I can't make that judgement call. In some areas I have become much less of a stickler than I was in the past. In other areas, I know I need to become much more of a stickler.

In EGW's reference to the "sticklers of the letter of the law" she is referring to those Jesus had driven from the Temple. They claimed to be the "True Church" and "Keepers of the Law" but were unfit to participate in the sacred services. To them, the Law, including their own ridiculous add-ons, were far more important than love and mercy. They were off-balanced, crawling along in the ditch, rather than walking down the middle of the road. They pretended to be so holy, yet they despised the common people, mercilessly refusing to assist those too poor to buy sacrifices for sin offerings.

In a sense, Jesus was a stickler of the letter of God's Law, but only for himself. He made no attempt to force anyone else to obey God's Law; he was strict only on himself.

Without a new, moral birth, we too can become tyrants, like the Jewish leaders of Jesus' time. We may be "converted" and join a church and become just as narrow-minded and unkind as the Blind Leaders of the Blind. This is why it is so dangerous when nations are ruled by religious powers: intolerance and fanaticism often result. Without the Spirit of God, religion can become our cruel and merciless master. The God of Life is exchanged for the God of Death.

Only the Spirit of God can protect us from falling into either ditch on the Road of Life. On the right is the ditch of strict obedience to the law. On the left is the ditch of all love and no obedience. We cannot enter into the New Kingdom via the ditches. In the middle of the road, righteousness, combined with love, allows one to enter through the gates into the Kingdom, a place where love and mercy and obedience to God are combined in perfect proportions.

How we live our life on Earth determines whether or not we will qualify for a position in the next life. Either we're sheep, or we're goats. There are no half-sheep half-goats.

Hey, Nico,

I'm really glad you popped in a few days ago. At least it seems only a few days ago. I usually wonder how you're doing everytime I log in here.


When Jesus told Nicodemus that he needed to be born from above, I've been wondering if he was referring to the rebirth at the 1st Resurrection. Those chosen for everlasting life will most likely be much shorter in height than Jesus, shorter than the antediluvians, too, maybe. The heavenly beings will all tower over the redeemed like we as adults tower over toddlers and small children on our world. With most of their memories deleted, the redeemed will essentially be little children; their minds uncluttered with the unpleasant memories of their former life on Earth. Everything they see is so big and strange. They're in alien territory.

After teaching, training, and mentoring, the redeemed will be ready to take their places in God's Kingdom. They will work, not for money, but for the pleasure of serving others. Essentially, they will be slaves, but all of their needs will be met, and they will never be mistreated or overworked. Are they picked because they were obedient to God's Law, or did their ability to love and sacrifice themselves for others play a more important role? Only God knows this.

By accessing the Tree of Life, their bodies will never grow old or diseased. Their minds will always be open to new knowledge, a new understanding of God and the universe. Even though working for only room and board, they will all be happy, playing their small part in serving God.

Just as important than obeying the Law is for us to serve our fellow human beings. This is the most important information, I believe, that God considers when scanning the life records of humans. It's the kind and generous spirit in those interested in other's well-being that is the winning ticket into God's Kingdom. The Right Day, the Right Doctrine, the Right Bible, the Right Books, etc, all have their place, but are not so important as the Right Spirit. Some of the really strict Right Day people would be very unhappy in the Restored Kingdom of New Earth, because they never cultivated love and service to others.

Although I've recently made a commitment to serve God, I don't really feel born again, although my direction sure has changed. Maybe I've missed out on something. Maybe in making a committment, it's just the beginning of the process, culminating in rebirth at the 2nd Coming and the restoration of life. I've always felt like a child, though. Simple pleasures, simple thoughts...

Maybe the new bodies given to the redeemed are brought to Earth in a dehydrated state, just a few tablespoons worth. First add Water. Poof! The bodies puff up like a wet sponge that was smashed flat when dry. Next add Spirit/Memories, and you have a new person ready for the Kingdom.

Dear AlienSanctuary,
Your posts always delight me and cause me to sit up and think. Your way of interpreting the Desire of Ages never ceases to amaze me!! Thank you for continuing to post your thoughts here.

I have something to comment on from your last post. Your comment about us being virtually "slaves" in Heaven or the New Earth I think that I know where you are coming from, however, it really grates on my sensibilities and what I have learned from Bible reading. You are right, we in all reality, will not be "working" for a living as it were, however, Jesus clearly states that we are His Friends, and not just servants. That completely negates the slave scenario in my mind. And, because we are His friends, He shares the mysteries of the Kingdom of God with us. He goes on to say that a Master doesn't share His business with a slave.

I am looking forward to having my "bad memories" erased and being able to learn all that God wants me to learn. I had not thought that we will be as little children, but I think that you have a point. Perhaps that is part of what the 1,000 years are about.

My understanding is that humanity will be resored which I interpret will include height. Won't it be fun to find out what all He has in store for us??

MG

Everyone in God's Land was happy doing their jobs until Satan snuck around, telling them they weren't really free, but actually slaves of a tyrant God. The little seeds of a bad idea eventually sprung up into full-blown rebellion, then war, in God's Land. The rebels left, taking much equipment with them to establish their own rival Kingdom.

Some versions of the NT do refer to believers as slaves, some as servants. Of course, we have such a negative connotation of the word, because human slave-masters tended to be tyrants and cruel, treating their slaves like dirt.

Maybe a better way to look at it would be for the Redeemed to think of themselves as part of a team, replacements for those who left.

One of the possible meanings of the Greek word for "born" is regenerate, according to Strong's Dictionary. That reminds me of re-incarnation, which most Christians must believe in, in a way, because of what happened to Jesus.

His old earth-body died, then his memory/spirit entered into a new body. Maybe the new body was made from material from the old body, maybe not. A few others have been re-incarnated in the Bible, but they all seem to have returned to their old bodies.

I wonder if Jesus had to be de-contaminated upon returning from Earth to Mt. Zion in space. Maybe the brilliant light coming from God was enough to kill any hitchhiking bacteria.

Someday, everyone who has ever lived will be re-incarnated, either at the 1st or 2nd resurrections. The lucky 1st resurrection people will get new, disease and mutation-free bodies. The unlucky 2nd resurrection people will get their old germ-infested, diseased, mutated bodies, but only for a short time before being destroyed.

As another possible angle on being born again, spiritual regeneration in the dictionary means to change radically for the better. So Jesus told Nicodemus, "You can't see the Kingdom of God unless you change radically for the better from above." Humans probably can't change for the better unless the changing force from above assists them.

When Jesus was resurrected, although he didn't have the same body, he seemed to be the normal height for human beings of the time. Therefore, if we can extrapolate a little, the height of the redeemed will be similar. Of course, most of the celestial beings will tower over the redeemed, giving them the sense of being children, height-wise, and knowledge-wise.

It was after the resurrection that Jesus did call his disciples children. Compared to ages of thousands of years, a mere 30 or 40 or 100 year old person is just a baby.