#88839 - 07/19/06 12:05 PM
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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**Rest in Peace or friend, you are missed**
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
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The Roman Empire disintegrated into the small nations of Europe"
Is this shift in focus logical? The Roman Empire included all of North Africa and most of the Greek empire and remained so into the 8th century. Daniel was not concerned with Europe but was being shown what would happen to HIS land and HIS people as in chapters 10 and 11.
It is convenient to ignore some things in order to have a neat package but is it ethical? Can it be proved that only that relatively small western part of the Roman Empire is intended in the prophecy?
mel
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#88840 - 07/19/06 02:12 PM
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: chloesnana]
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Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 10345
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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I don't see a contradiction. Man may make distinctions as far as the visible people of God is concerned, but if you go back to Daniel 2, the stone that was cut out of a mountain that represents God's kingdom, it makes no distinction between the believers before and after the 70 wks probation for the Jews. As far as God is concerned, there is "neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free," etc. etc., all are one in Christ Jesus. Neither is the woman that represent the church in Rev 12 shown as either Jew or Gentile. Daniel may not be concerned with Europe, but God may. Besides, the visions he had went way beyond his time, up to the Second Coming.
The Vandals of North Africa was one of the three horns uprooted with the appearance of the "little horn" that became greater than the rest, and disappeared.
BTW, if you can add your input into the discussion, perhaps things will become clearer. I do not present my views as the last word on the understanding of this prophecy or any prophecy. What I am presenting is not original with me, but seems to be most consistent and reasonable to me.
Gerry
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#88841 - 08/04/06 10:38 PM
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 786
Loc: Northern California
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Quote:
-- New Living Translation
Daniel 7:7 Then in my vision that night, I saw a fourth beast, terrifying, dreadful, and very strong. It devoured and crushed its victims with huge iron teeth and trampled what was left beneath its feet. It was different from any of the other beasts, and it had ten horns.
This is a huge, alien, People-Smashing Machine. It snatches up it victims, crushes them into a pulp with People-Crushing Teeth, strips off all of the meat and soft tissue, then spits out all of the bone fragments. If we see one of these machines, it's already too late. Then we might be processed into hot dogs or lunch meat, a tasty treat for a ravenously hungry beast at the end of the world.
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#88842 - 08/04/06 11:56 PM
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
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**Rest in Peace or friend, you are missed**
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
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Seems plain that the beast had ten horns when Daniel first saw it. Why is it fair to assume that the ten horns arrived on the scene centuries later?
mel
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#88843 - 08/05/06 12:34 PM
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: chloesnana]
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Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 10345
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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Quote:
melvin mccarty said:
Seems plain that the beast had ten horns when Daniel first saw it. Why is it fair to assume that the ten horns arrived on the scene centuries later?
mel
It may be fair to assume that, but that is not what happened. If that is not Rome with the subsequent appearance of the 10 kingdoms, do you have a better explanation?
Gerry
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#88844 - 08/05/06 02:28 PM
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: chloesnana]
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 786
Loc: Northern California
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Quote:
melvin mccarty said:
Seems plain that the beast had ten horns when Daniel first saw it. Why is it fair to assume that the ten horns arrived on the scene centuries later?
mel
If Rome does not fit the Ten-Horned People-Smashing One-World Government, then what other candidates do we have that arose after the demise of the Greek Empire?
How was Rome that much different from its predecessors. It used swords and spears and knives just like they did. It’s powers of destruction were just as limited as theirs were, mainly by brute force, a little steel, and a little fire.
Quote:
--NKJ Revelation 12
1. Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
2. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
3. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
4. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.
I don't have any dates for the fall of the Greek Empire, but, not very long afterward, Satan's forces came to Earth to attack the Woman giving birth to the Iron Rod Child. The NT writers did seem to speak the Greek language.
Satan's Kingdom on Earth is indicated by the number 10 and the number 7, that is, the 10 horns and the 7 heads. God's Kingdom on Earth are the numbers 12 and 7. Anything related to the Earth is indicated by the number 7.
(Remember when Jesus fed the 5,000 plus people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 dried fish? That’s the 7. How many basketfuls were left over? That’s the 12. Jesus was telling the people that when the kingdom of God arrived on Earth, they would never go hungry.)
Therefore, Satan's forces, his Kingdom, this 10-horned 7-headed Beast/Government did actually appear on Earth around the time of the Messiah, as indicated in Rev 12. Although it did try to destroy Jesus, it didn’t seem to do much, if any, physical damage at that time, but, the important thing to note, it was there, even though few may have been aware of it.
Maybe Satan's kingdom is still on this planet, locked up in the Abyss since Jesus' death, until the time for its release arrives. Then the Beast awakens and asserts its control over the entire world, destroying everything and everyone who does not cooperate, with weapons we can’t even imagine.
Rome is nothing, the pope is nothing, when compared to Satan's One World People-Smashing End-Times Government.
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#88845 - 08/05/06 06:11 PM
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 10345
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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Quote:
Rome is nothing, the pope is nothing, when compared to Satan's One World People-Smashing End-Times Government.
Do you see Satan working directly? Do you see God working directly?
Fact is, they both work through people, nations, & different agencies/organizations.
Gerry
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#88846 - 08/05/06 06:13 PM
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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**Rest in Peace or friend, you are missed**
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
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I'm sorry..but I was in no way intimating that I did nor believe that Rome was the fourth beast. Didn't say that at all did I?
I will try again. The Roman empire came into existence some time before Christ's first advent and when Daniel saw it coming out of the water it differed from the previous beasts by having 10 horns. The Roman empire at that time included all of what had been the Grecian empire and much more including all of North Africa. Why do the ten horns then need to be only in the western part of the empire? I dont see the beast having NO horns for several centuries, do you? Do you have a reasonable explanation for the ten horns being only in Europe and ignoring the eastern part of the empire including Palestine and Egypt etc.?
mel
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#88847 - 08/05/06 11:23 PM
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: chloesnana]
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Registered: 11/11/03
Posts: 4988
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Back to the original question.
Of what use is it to preach to Catholics this prophecy when what they need most is the love of the Lord? Wouldn't it be wiser to preach to them Christ and the plan of salvation through grace than to show them prophecy that not all Adventists agree upon?
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#88848 - 08/06/06 06:14 AM
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: CaregiverDee]
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Registered: 03/20/00
Posts: 10345
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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Is the prophecy only for non-catholics?
Gerry
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