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The Test of Discipleship

"If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17.

A person may not be able to tell the exact time or place, or trace all the chain of circumstances in the process of conversion; but this does not prove him to be unconverted. Christ said to Nicodemus, "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8. Like the wind, which is invisible, yet the effects of which are plainly seen and felt, is the Spirit of God in its work upon the human heart. That regenerating power, which no human eye can see, begets a new life in the soul; it creates a new being in the image of God. While the work of the Spirit is silent and imperceptible, its effects are manifest. If the heart has been renewed by the Spirit of God, the life will bear witness to the fact. While we cannot do anything to change our hearts or to bring ourselves into harmony with God; while we must not trust at all to ourselves or our good works, our lives will reveal whether the grace of God is dwelling within us. A change will be seen in the character, the habits, the pursuits. The contrast will be clear and decided between what they have been and what they are. The character is revealed, not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts.

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Like the wind, which is invisible, yet the effects of which are plainly seen and felt, is the Spirit of God in its work upon the human heart. That regenerating power, which no human eye can see, begets a new life in the soul; it creates a new being in the image of God.

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Going back over what we have covered this far in Steps to Christ, my understanding is that our task is to believe (John 3:16) (when the Holy Spirit convicts us), and then it is God Who leads us to repentance, confession, consecration, discipleship, etc. In other words, our salvation is 100% God's work -- except that we keep wanting to get our sticky fingers into the process, by wondering what "work" we have to do.

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I find that if we really were honest with ourselves we would have doubts about many things that supposedly are pillars of belief. If something is really true, it will stand up to the test of experience. It doesn't have to hide behind the wall of authority, shame, manipulation, or force.

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It seems to me (and I may be wrong) that you are looking at this question of believing in connection with what you believe. God is not asking what we believe. It is all about Who we believe in. That is my understanding of Scripture.

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There is a belief in the ancient world. When you name something you gain power over it. I believe that is one reason that Jewish philosophers never gave God a name that meant anything or could mean anything and everything. So when asked to believe in a Who that Who generally has a name and a series of assumptions about Who that person is.

I don't believe that is a good practice with God or people either. The assumption about who they are, their motivations, intentions, etc. I'm not saying you are suggesting this, but when we are asked to believe in a person these things then come into play.

In Adventism it is generally assumed that we are believing in a God defined by Ellen White. If you don't believe this, just try defining God outside of her perceptions of God and see how long you hold a job in the denomination.

To me, God is beyond any definition or assumption because the moment one thinks they have God nailed down something happens to shatter that. Pain and suffering shatters most definitions of God anyone offers up. Pain is the great equalizer. In those moments of pain and suffering priorities become readily apparent. In those moments any illusion of control is gone. The problem in those moments, any explanation of why God allows pain holds no comfort and sounds rather trivial.

That is why I have learned that a belief is not enough. In those moments I need to know. I'm not talking about a mental knowing. I need to know on a much deeper level than that.

I really believe that Jesus was talking more about trust. I can choose to open myself up to possibility through trust. In each moment I can choose to trust that it will work out or I can dispair. I happen to be about life, so I choose to trust and wait and see how it works out. If I am about death then I can choose to dispair.

When we strip all the theology, denominational layers of control, investments in particular outcomes, and personal fears I really believe that it comes down to this choice. Do I trust or dispair. This was essentially Job's choice. After all the debates, all the judgements, and all the shame, this is the moment by moment choice regardless of religious belief.

And I believe this is why Jesus said over and over all we have to do is trust. This is a trust that is not invested in outcomes, because any outcome we invest in will eventually fail in some moment. It is a trust that is not invested in any particular picture of God. It is not a trust in some God we explain from scripture or Ellen White. It must be a trust in a God that is real in the world of day to day experience that is redefined each moment in time.

That is my experience...

Richard

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When it comes to what we end up believing, it is not quite so important what we experience as rather what we end up telling ourselves about what we experience.

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It is true that there may be an outward correctness of deportment without the renewing power of Christ. The love of influence and the desire for the esteem of others may produce a well-ordered life. Self-respect may lead us to avoid the appearance of evil. A selfish heart may perform generous actions. By what means, then, shall we determine whose side we are on?

Who has the heart? With whom are our thoughts? Of whom do we love to converse? Who has our warmest affections and our best energies? If we are Christ's, our thoughts are with Him, and our sweetest thoughts are of Him. All we have and are is consecrated to Him. We long to bear His image, breathe His spirit, do His will, and please Him in all things.

Those who become new creatures in Christ Jesus will bring forth the fruits of the Spirit, "love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance." Galatians 5:22, 23. They will no longer fashion themselves according to the former lusts, but by the faith of the Son of God they will follow in His steps, reflect His character, and purify themselves even as He is pure. The things they once hated they now love, and the things they once loved they hate. The proud and self-assertive become meek and lowly in heart. The vain and supercilious become serious and unobtrusive. The drunken become sober, and the profligate pure. The vain customs and fashions of the world are laid aside. Christians will seek not the "outward adorning," but "the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit." 1 Peter 3: 3, 4.

There is no evidence of genuine repentance unless it works reformation. If he restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, confess his sins, and love God and his fellow men, the sinner may be sure that he has passed from death unto life.

When, as erring, sinful beings, we come to Christ and become partakers of His pardoning grace, love springs up in the heart. Every burden is light, for the yoke that Christ imposes is easy. Duty becomes a delight, and sacrifice a pleasure. The path that before seemed shrouded in darkness, becomes bright with beams from the Sun of Righteousness.

The loveliness of the character of Christ will be seen in His followers. It was His delight to do the will of God. Love to God, zeal for His glory, was the controlling power in our Saviour's life. Love beautified and ennobled all His actions. Love is of God. The unconsecrated heart cannot originate or produce it. It is found only in the heart where Jesus reigns. "We love, because He first loved us." 1 John 4:19, R.V. In the heart renewed by divine grace, love is the principle of action. It modifies the character, governs the impulses, controls the passions, subdues enmity, and ennobles the affections. This love, cherished in the soul, sweetens the life and sheds a refining influence on all around.

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The devil is not worried which path we take -- so long as we do not rely wholly on Christ to perform the changes in our lives. He works with each one individually, at the pace that hHe knows they can follow.

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That's awfully nice of the devil to work with each of us at our own pace.

Richard

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There are two errors against which the children of God--particularly those who have just come to trust in His grace--especially need to guard. The first, already dwelt upon, is that of looking to their own works, trusting to anything they can do, to bring themselves into harmony with God. He who is trying to become holy by his own works in keeping the law, is attempting an impossibility. All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin. It is the grace of Christ alone, through faith, that can make us holy.

The opposite and no less dangerous error is that belief in Christ releases men from keeping the law of God; that since by faith alone we become partakers of the grace of Christ, our works have nothing to do with our redemption.

But notice here that obedience is not a mere outward compliance, but the service of love. The law of God is an expression of His very nature; it is an embodiment of the great principle of love, and hence is the foundation of His government in heaven and earth. If our hearts are renewed in the likeness of God, if the divine love is implanted in the soul, will not the law of God be carried out in the life? When the principle of love is implanted in the heart, when man is renewed after the image of Him that created him, the new-covenant promise is fulfilled, "I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." Hebrews 10:16. And if the law is written in the heart, will it not shape the life? Obedience--the service and allegiance of love--is the true sign of discipleship. Thus the Scripture says, "This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." "He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 5:3; 2:4. Instead of releasing man from obedience, it is faith, and faith only, that makes us partakers of the grace of Christ, which enables us to render obedience.

We do not earn salvation by our obedience; for salvation is the free gift of God, to be received by faith. But obedience is the fruit of faith. "Ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him." 1 John 3:5, 6. Here is the true test. If we abide in Christ, if the love of God dwells in us, our feelings, our thoughts, our purposes, our actions, will be in harmony with the will of God as expressed in the precepts of His holy law. "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous." 1 John 3:7. Righteousness is defined by the standard of God's holy law, as expressed in the ten precepts given on Sinai.

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That's awfully nice of the devil to work with each of us at our own pace.

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*ROFLMHO!!*

Yes and how about this: he even tailor-makes his deceptions to fit us each uniquely and individually! Wow, that is one attentive devil.

But it's just a cheap shoddy counterfeit for the love and attention God pours out on each of us!

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The opposite and no less dangerous error is that belief in Christ releases men from keeping the law of God; that since by faith alone we become partakers of the grace of Christ, our works have nothing to do with our redemption.

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But notice here that obedience is not a mere outward compliance, but the service of love. The law of God is an expression of His very nature; it is an embodiment of the great principle of love, and hence is the foundation of His government in heaven and earth. If our hearts are renewed in the likeness of God, if the divine love is implanted in the soul, will not the law of God be carried out in the life?

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The closer you come to Jesus, the more faulty you will appear in your own eyes; for your vision will be clearer, and your imperfections will be seen in broad and distinct contrast to His perfect nature. This is evidence that Satan's delusions have lost their power; that the vivifying influence of the Spirit of God is arousing you.
No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness. The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character; but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ.
The less we see to esteem in ourselves, the more we shall see to esteem in the infinite purity and loveliness of our Saviour. A view of our sinfulness drives us to Him who can pardon; and when the soul, realizing its helplessness, reaches out after Christ, He will reveal Himself in power. The more our sense of need drives us to Him and to the word of God, the more exalted views we shall have of His character, and the more fully we shall reflect His image.

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The unconsecrated heart cannot originate or produce it. It is found only in the heart where Jesus reigns. "We love, because He first loved us." 1 John 4:19, R.V. In the heart renewed by divine grace, love is the principle of action. It modifies the character, governs the impulses, controls the passions, subdues enmity, and ennobles the affections. This love, cherished in the soul, sweetens the life and sheds a refining influence on all around.

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There are two errors against which the children of God--particularly those who have just come to trust in His grace--especially need to guard. The first, already dwelt upon, is that of looking to their own works, trusting to anything they can do, to bring themselves into harmony with God.

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There is no evidence of genuine repentance unless it works reformation. If he restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, confess his sins, and love God and his fellow men, the sinner may be sure that he has passed from death unto life.

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While these writings are some of Ellen White's better presentations I would note how much text you have to wade through before you get to the red sections. There is a heaviness and a self consciousness to her writings. Let me give you an example from what you posted....

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The closer you come to Jesus, the more faulty you will appear in your own eyes; for your vision will be clearer, and your imperfections will be seen in broad and distinct contrast to His perfect nature. This is evidence that Satan's delusions have lost their power; that the vivifying influence of the Spirit of God is arousing you.
No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness. The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character; but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ.
The less we see to esteem in ourselves, the more we shall see to esteem in the infinite purity and loveliness of our Saviour. A view of our sinfulness drives us to Him who can pardon; and when the soul, realizing its helplessness, reaches out after Christ, He will reveal Himself in power. The more our sense of need drives us to Him and to the word of God, the more exalted views we shall have of His character, and the more fully we shall reflect His image.

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When she states that the closer we come to Jesus the more faulty we will feel in our own eyes creates a paradox. Because it is so self conscious it not only asks us to pass judgement on ourselves, it also presents low self esteem as a virtue.

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Me in a previous post...
When she states that the closer we come to Jesus the more faulty we will feel in our own eyes creates a paradox. Because it is so self conscious it not only asks us to pass judgement on ourselves, it also presents low self esteem as a virtue.

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It may appear that way to you, Richard, but to someone like me, who is prone to a continual and oppressive sense of my sinfulness, unworthiness, etc. -- which nothing, not even faith in a loving, forgiving God can ameliorate permanently -- it does not appear that way.

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Living where I live (meaning in the kind of head I'm stuck with), the levels of pain and rage and frustration I feel, the amount of confusion I deal with spiritually, can be extremely overwhelming and exhausting. It can also be terribly uprooting. I will have a good time of things in the Lord for a week or two, mistakenly believe that "finally" all will be well with my soul, and then BAM, the bottom drops out and I might as well have been kicked into the sewers for the way I feel. During those times everything is dark and senseless around me. Nothing "coheres" really -- it all becomes disconnected, flotsam floating in jetsam, no meaning, no sense of reality, no awareness of truth or heart or spirit, just pain unassuaged and with it, self-loathing, self-recrimination, despair, suicidal feelings, and there's nothing I can do to "fix" it. I just have to endure it until it passes.

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you only know one thing: you are not capable of getting yourself out, and must depend entirely upon some serendipitous aid coming to your rescue, whether it is in the form of some word of Scripture finally connecting inside, or some significant experience with another person, or some sudden insight, or unexpected delight in something, some unforeseen blessing large or small connecting with the reawakening of the ability to even feel gratitude (for all such feelings are locked away during these times), or just a quiet wave passing over leaving you on regular ground again.

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No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness.

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My point is not to catalog my sufferings here but just to give you a backdrop to why I say that reading things like this are a comfort and an anchor to me. They make me feel less lost, less abandoned, less forsaken, less overlooked, less drowning, less forgotten, less miserable and isolated and alone. I don't know if that's a good thing. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's a delusion and I'd be better off just facing the reality. But when reality becomes a case of macrocosmic apoptosis, it becomes really daunting to "just face" it. I would rather have a pleasing fantasy where I don't not matter, where I'm not disposable and insignificant. I already know I am so who cares whether I want to pretend I'm not?

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Love reduces fear, and when there is less fear, there is more trust, and when there is more trust there is more awareness, and when there is more awareness there is more connection with the commuity around us, and when there is more connection there is more love. This is the spiritual circle. And it begins with the Love of God.

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While the work of the Spirit is silent and imperceptible, its effects are manifest. If the heart has been renewed by the Spirit of God, the life will bear witness to the fact. While we cannot do anything to change our hearts or to bring ourselves into harmony with God; while we must not trust at all to ourselves or our good works, our lives will reveal whether the grace of God is dwelling within us. A change will be seen in the character, the habits, the pursuits. The contrast will be clear and decided between what they have been and what they are. The character is revealed, not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts.

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There are two errors against which the children of God--particularly those who have just come to trust in His grace--especially need to guard. The first, already dwelt upon, is that of looking to their own works, trusting to anything they can do, to bring themselves into harmony with God. He who is trying to become holy by his own works in keeping the law, is attempting an impossibility. All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin. It is the grace of Christ alone, through faith, that can make us holy.

The opposite and no less dangerous error is that belief in Christ releases men from keeping the law of God; that since by faith alone we become partakers of the grace of Christ, our works have nothing to do with our redemption.

But notice here that obedience is not a mere outward compliance, but the service of love. The law of God is an expression of His very nature; it is an embodiment of the great principle of love, and hence is the foundation of His government in heaven and earth. If our hearts are renewed in the likeness of God, if the divine love is implanted in the soul, will not the law of God be carried out in the life? When the principle of love is implanted in the heart, when man is renewed after the image of Him that created him, the new-covenant promise is fulfilled, "I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." Hebrews 10:16. And if the law is written in the heart, will it not shape the life? Obedience--the service and allegiance of love--is the true sign of discipleship. Thus the Scripture says, "This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments." "He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 5:3; 2:4. Instead of releasing man from obedience, it is faith, and faith only, that makes us partakers of the grace of Christ, which enables us to render obedience.

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The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness....Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness. If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned.

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So we have nothing in ourselves of which to boast. We have no ground for self-exaltation. Our only ground of hope is in the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, and in that wrought by His Spirit working in and through us.

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The closer you come to Jesus, the more faulty you will appear in your own eyes; for your vision will be clearer, and your imperfections will be seen in broad and distinct contrast to His perfect nature. This is evidence that Satan's delusions have lost their power; that the vivifying influence of the Spirit of God is arousing you.

No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness. The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character; but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ.

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No deep-seated love for Jesus can dwell in the heart that does not realize its own sinfulness. The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character; but if we do not see our own moral deformity, it is unmistakable evidence that we have not had a view of the beauty and excellence of Christ.

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It isn’t until I ask the Master Gardener to check out my garden with me that I become aware of my poor gardening efforts, and finally say, “Look, Lord, I am a very poor gardener. Will You please just take over my garden.” And He says, “My dear child, why have you waited so long to ask Me?”

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The opposite and no less dangerous error is that belief in Christ releases men from keeping the law of God; that since by faith alone we become partakers of the grace of Christ, our works have nothing to do with our redemption.

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The other day I spotted the Master Gardener just about to root out what appeared to be a beautiful flower. I rushed out to tell Him to leave that one alone, but He smiled and said, “This apparently beautiful flower is in fact a poisonous weed. Left here it will ruin your garden.” I consented to its removal. It was painful to see it go – the roots were deep, and it required a lot of digging to get rid of all of it.

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I am so glad that I decided to leave the Master Gardener in charge of my garden. I am now rejoicing in seeing some beautiful fruit – a lady who was an alcoholic almost at death’s door now free from alcohol, and thanking God for her release – another lady chained with the addiction of over-the-counter drugs, “doctor shopping”, etc., proud of her atheism, now acknowledging that there must be a God, and planning to come to church with me – a lonely lady now rejoicing in the fellowship of church – an abused lady, now finding her way to Christ and His love. The fruit is beautiful.

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I would also suggest that part of you doesn't really believe that God forgives. I am not making a moral judgement, just an observation. I would ask you, what would it take for you to believe that God forgives you?

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