From Christ's Object Lessons, Pg. 69:
Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His Church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.
I see this statement a lot, especially after the preacher has just commented that the present day church is not doing any better than Israel of old. Is this comment God's out? Is this His way of saying He's never coming, after all?

Of course you are not questioning or limiting the power of His righteousness to accomplish this in His people but what you are implying, I believe, is what Woody has been saying all along (just saying) that there is no question that God has the power to accomplish this (nothing impossible to God) but that His people will never let Him and for that reason alone Christ could never come again if His return is contingent upon His character being perfectly reproduced in His people.

Is that it?

sky

Yes,Skyblue, that is what I mean. Thanks. I'm a lifelong loyal Adventist but a very few comments in SOP are persistent stones in the road for me, and this is one.

I don't think I'm the only one smart enough by a long shot to wonder about this frequent quote. I don't want to bring it up in church because it may make trouble for the weak in faith. But the stalwart SDA warriors that persist on this website probably won't be knocked over by my question.

>>>When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.

And what does that look like? A compassion people who fights for social justice? or??

"Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His Church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own." C.O.L.69.

In other words, "The revelation of His own glory--character--in the form of humanity will bring Heaven so near to men that the beauty adorning the inner temple will be seen in every soul in whom the Saviour dwells. Men will be captivated by the glory of an abiding Christ, and in currents of praise and thanksgiving from the many souls THUS won to God, glory will flow back to the great Giver." C.O.L.420.

If these words are inspired they are a prophecy that, soon or later, will be fulfilled.

sky

So, maybe my problem is with "His church." Who is His church? Is it all the members of the General Conference churches? Or is it those members who are shaken out by persecution over the Sunday law (when it comes)? I find myself not sure what "His church" means.

Read the whole chapter where this quote is found and especially focus on the paragraphs immediately before it to get the essential context.

But that's just the thing Tom, we'd rather grab things out of context and than use it that way.

Does that quote need a context?

Yes indeed it does.

Honest, kind, self-controlled. No crooks or liars.

What is the one aspect of Christ's character that can be reproduced in every believer? Sinlessness? That's beyond reach because we have been polluted. Every fiber of our being is infected with sin, that's why we need a glorified body. But it is possible to come to the point of trusting God exactly as Christ trusted His Father, so settled in the truth that nothing can move them.

I that Gerry.

I have read the chapter. It's about the sower in the field, but I don't see that the context before or after makes it clearer. So, maybe you would explain, Mr. Wetmore, how the context defines it.

The essential message and meaning is in the 4 paragraphs that precede the one which contains the quote you have posted. Please note the highlighted sentences:

And as I previously posted in the discussion of this same quote in the Theology forum:

Excellent post's Tom!!!

As you can guess, I would again point out that I understand the Bible and Mrs. White to teach that we have two attitudes towards the world around us: Part of us which wants to love the world on an honest basis, and part of us which thinks we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. To give in to the lust of the flesh (what I feel is right is thus right, if you snub me I'll nurture that wound) the lust of the eyes (I'll only see things from my point of view) and the bostful pride of life (either I'm more important than others, at least better than you; or I'm so important that the world is out to get me).

I believe that we are doing a wonderful job of not loving the world. Too bad there is a hook in that text.

That simple unselfish love for one another that mark (consider that in the eschatological sense...) the Christ followers is how Jesus framed the judgment part of returning to claim his own (the reaping of the fruit of the harvest). It is the "unto the least of these" sheep and goats judgment parable in Matthew 25. It is those expressing Christlike loving-kindenss to others that are ripe fruit, perfectly reflecting the character/Spirit of Christ, that are ready for harvest.

In other words, "We may be active, we may do much work, but without love, such love as dwelt in the heart of Christ we can never be numbered with the family of Heaven." C.O.L.158.

Right?

sky

This is all excellent description of perfection and righteousness-by- faith, but seems to be going astray from my question. Let me put it in other words: How many people do you know who have perfect loving kindness for others? How many do you see who never do wrong or have a fault? Have you reached the perfect character of Jesus? I can't imagine myself as ever being as good as Jesus.
But seems Sister White is saying the whole church has to be just like Jesus, or we can just wait forever.
That's my concern about what Sister White said.

Gerry, that seems to be what I'm looking for. Thank you for your idea on what the "Character of Jesus" means. I will be thinking on that.

I still don't see how enough people, including myself, will attain to the trust and perfection outlined by Sister White, but maybe Sky is right, too. If Sister White said it, then Jesus will see to it that enough people are ready for Him to feel He can come back here.

Yep - if He wants it to happen - HE will need to do what is needed - not us.

But to this date - I ain't seen even one person who comes close to that description.

Blessed Jesus Himself gave you the answer about who are His Church. You have only to read Matthew 25: 34 - 40, and to understand the spirit of that same passage. Those of His Church feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless,comfort the sorrowful,calm the anxious and frightened, teach the simple, spread the Gospel of God's love and gifts,
give hope to those without hope, in general help the downtrodden.

If you expect to gain favor with The Lord, let alone salvation, by membership in an exclusive group or a particular organized religion (be it Christian or non-Christian), focusing your worship on a specific time, practicing a restricted diet,or following a laundry list of do's and don'ts, then you do not come close to understanding Jesus and His life.

Agape

Quit waiting for Jesus' return. I have the personal advantage of being a preterist - Jesus is with us who are Christians now and forever.Jesus is not waiting for us to become "perfect" in order to "return" to us. If you are a Christian, you have Christ in you, and you are in Christ.The only realistic life is to live for Christ today, which is another of Jesus' teachings.

Live the life of selfless love that Jesus taught. Even so, none of us lives the sinless life that some maintain all or most Christians must manifest in order for Jesus to "return". Were that the case, there would be no "return". If you blame yourselves for a lack of Jesus' "return" because of a sinful life, you take on a responsibility you can never realize and a delusional belief that can never be actualized.Furthermore, if you think about it, such thinking seems rather egotistical. You are all, without exception, very, very bad guys and dolls, but not in your wildest dreams are you that bad.

The wife of my youth (and of the past 53 years) is the Adventist of we two. Even so, She fully accepts the spirit of Matthew Chapter 25. After all, it was taught by the Lord Himself.

It is not about sinlessness but about righteousness. Small graces are the stuff of righteousness. As Phillip Yancey describes it, we are to be "grace dispensers". That is the stuff of Matthew 25. This story illustrates that compassionate character of Christ perfectly well:

A NYC Taxi driver wrote:

I arrived at the address and honked the horn. After waiting a few minutes I honked again. Since this was going to be my last ride of my shift I thought about just driving away, but instead I put the car in park and walked up to the door and knocked.. 'Just a minute', answered a frail, elderly voice. I could hear something being dragged across the floor.

After a long pause, the door opened. A small woman in her 90's stood before me. She was wearing a print dress and a pillbox hat with a veil pinned on it, like somebody out of a 1940's movie.

By her side was a small nylon suitcase. The apartment looked as if no one had lived in it for years. All the furniture was covered with sheets.

There were no clocks on the walls, no knickknacks or utensils on the counters. In the corner was a cardboard
box filled with photos and glassware.

'Would you carry my bag out to the car?' she said. I took the suitcase to the cab, then returned to assist the woman.

She took my arm and we walked slowly toward the curb.

She kept thanking me for my kindness. 'It's nothing', I told her.. 'I just try to treat my passengers the way I would want my mother to be treated.'

'Oh, you're such a good boy, she said. When we got in the cab, she gave me an address and then asked, 'Could you drive
through downtown?'

'It's not the shortest way,' I answered quickly..

'Oh, I don't mind,' she said. 'I'm in no hurry. I'm on my way to a hospice.

I looked in the rear-view mirror. Her eyes were glistening. 'I don't have any family left,' she continued in a soft voice..'The doctor says I don't have very long.' I quietly reached over and shut off the meter.

'What route would you like me to take?' I asked.

For the next two hours, we drove through the city. She showed me the building where she had once worked as an elevator operator.

We drove through the neighborhood where she and her husband had lived when they were newlyweds She had me pull up in front of a furniture warehouse that had once been a ballroom where she had gone dancing as a girl.

Sometimes she'd ask me to slow in front of a particular building or corner and would sit staring into the darkness, saying nothing.

As the first hint of sun was creasing the horizon, she suddenly said, 'I'm tired.Let's go now'.
We drove in silence to the address she had given me. It was a low building, like a small convalescent home, with a driveway that passed under a portico.

Two orderlies came out to the cab as soon as we pulled up. They were solicitous and intent, watching her every move.
They must have been expecting her.

I opened the trunk and took the small suitcase to the door. The woman was already seated in a wheelchair.

'How much do I owe you?' She asked, reaching into her purse.

'Nothing,' I said

'You have to make a living,' she answered.

'There are other passengers,' I responded.

Almost without thinking, I bent and gave her a hug.She held onto me tightly.

'You gave an old woman a little moment of joy,' she said. 'Thank you.'

I squeezed her hand, and then walked into the dim morning light.. Behind me, a door shut.It was the sound of the closing of a life..

I didn't pick up any more passengers that shift. I drove aimlessly lost in thought. For the rest of that day,I could hardly talk.What if that woman had gotten an angry driver,or one who was impatient to end his shift? What if I had refused to take the run, or had honked once, then driven away?

On a quick review, I don't think that I have done anything more important in my life.

We're conditioned to think that our lives revolve around great moments.

But great moments often catch us unaware-beautifully wrapped in what others may consider a small one.

That was a great story, it brought tears to my eyes, thanks.

Well, fiddlestix and other expletives. I couldn't get the thumbs up anywhere on the submit field.

So,

Thumbs up!


George

It is an individual heart work. She also says the church militant is not the church triumphant. We each as individuals choose whether to follow Christ in our life journeys, and walk with Him or not. In times of great adversity those without a sincere experience with the Lord will either get such an experience with great difficulty or decide not to continue, so I believe we need to prepare now.
http://www.ellenwhite.info/books/ellen-g-white-book-early-writings-ew-65.htm
from Early Writings provides some interesting insights on this time.I like to say you can't sit on a fence in a hurricane.

I believe I have found a fulfilling answer to my original question, after a lot of reading here and in "Last Day Events". Christ's "waiting for perfection of his church" is clarified to me rather well in the chapter "The latter Rain" in "Last Day Events". It says there that there IS going to be the latter rain. Some will receive it and some will not. But those who do will receive a surge of the Holy Spirit's power to refine their characters. What those pages seem to say, Pgs. 187-187 is that Christ is waiting, not as if it might happen if we're good enough, but that it WILL happen. And when it does, His people, His church, will then reach the perfection in their co-operation with the Holy Spirit's outpouring. And then the Loud Cry happens about the Sunday law , etc.
I hope I havn't discouraged anyone by my questioning. I don't go around stirring up doubts, which is why I brought it here instead of telling everyone at church, or even the preacher there. But I also believe that truth can and should endure questions honestly asked. I feel very relieved to get this off my chest!

"The gospel is to be presented, not as a lifeless theory, but as a living force to change the life. God desires that the receivers of His grace shall be witnesses to its power. Those whose course has been most offensive to Him He freely accepts; when they repent, He imparts to them His divine Spirit, places them in the highest positions of trust, and sends them forth into the camp of the disloyal to proclaim His boundless mercy. He would have His servants bear testimony to the fact that through His grace men may possess Christlikeness of character, and may rejoice in the assurance of His great love. He would have us bear testimony to the fact that He cannot be satisfied until the human race are reclaimed and reinstated in their holy privileges as His sons and daughters.

In Christ is the tenderness of the shepherd, the affection of the parent, and the matchless grace of the compassionate Saviour. His blessings He presents in the most alluring terms. He is not content merely to announce these blessings; He presents them in the most attractive way, to excite a desire to possess them. So His servants are to present the riches of the glory of the unspeakable Gift. The wonderful love of Christ will melt and subdue hearts, when the mere reiteration of doctrines would accomplish nothing. "Comfort ye, comfort ye My people, saith your God." "O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! . . . He shall feed His flock like a shepherd: He shall gather the lambs with His arm, and carry them in His bosom." Isa. 40:1, 9-11.
Tell the people of Him who is "the Chiefest among ten thousand," and the One "altogether lovely." The Song of Solomon 5:10, 16. Words alone cannot tell it. Let it be reflected in the character and manifested in the life. Christ is sitting for His portrait in every disciple. Every one God has predestinated to be "conformed to the image of His Son." Rom. 8:29. In every one Christ's long-suffering love, His holiness, meekness, mercy, and truth are to be manifested to the world. Desire of Ages 827-8, Ellen White