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I am in my 80's and in reasonably good health. My brain is still active, even if it is somewhat diminished. I have reasonably good physical health. However, I am having problems with my vision. I receive regular eye injections, which were not on my list of things that I wanted do in life. I am aware that my published posts may contain typos that I have not seen. I work on it, but I have not resolved the issue. I have decided that I will not let that stop me from posting. God does not require perfection. If there is anything of value in my posts, God will use them despite my imperfections. Gregory Matthews

David–Eulogy R: ‘090624b David Milton Matthews began life in 1972. His Father, Gregory was a Seventh-day Adventist congregational pastor, and his mother, Sharon, would later become a Licensed California Marriage and Family Therapist. His middle name honored his maternal Grandfather who spent his life working for the California Department of Corrections, as a Correctional Officer. At birth, David joined his older brother, Gregory # 4. As was typical for the denomination of his parents, David moved several times in Virginia during his early years as his Father began to pastor larger congregations. A major change in David’s life came as his Father moved from congregational ministry to becoming a full-time U. S. Army Chaplain. That change resulted in a move to Ft. Ord, in Central California. This resulted in the family living near maternal relatives in the Sacramento area and other relatives living in the Modesto area. That was a positive change which was enjoyed by all. While David was living at Ft. Ord, a major change came in his life. His parents decided to separate. His mother moved to Sacramento to be near her relatives and to begin graduate schooling. His Father continued on as an Army Chaplain. Both parents shared joint custody of David and his brother. Over the next years David traveled between locations in the United States, Asia and Panama as visits ranged from short periods of two weeks to longer periods of thirteen-months. After several years as a single parent, his Father married a woman, also named Sharon, who gave David and his brother freely of her love. Christopher later joined this family as David’s younger brother. It was characteristic of David for him to want to earn money. In one visit with his Father, David began working for the apartment manager on the first day of his visit. On another visit with his Father in New Jersey, he made the acquaintance of the son of a Colonel. One Halloween evening they went out to have some fun. It ended with the Military Police escorting him back to his Father with a full report of his fun activities, which had included smashing pumpkins sitting by people's front doors. Later in life David decided to follow in the footsteps of his maternal grandfather and he applied to the California Department of Corrections to train at the Academy. He was accepted in 1996, graduated and was assigned to The California State Prison, Sacramento, located in Folsom, California. He retired in 2022. In the year 2000, David married Denice, the love of his life. She brought a daughter, Tiffany, into the marriage. David came to deeply love her as a daughter. With the passage of time, Alayna was born, and David had two daughters whom he deeply loved. He felt good about the accomplishments that both daughters had made in their lives. In our society today, every family has stress points. David and Denice were united and met them together. As David, shortly before his death said to his Father, there is no daylight between Denice and I as to how to handle issues as they arise. As a Correctional Officer, David held high ethical standards. On one occasion he witnessed a prisoner being mistreated. It was investigated and David told the truth. Administrative and criminal convictions were obtained and the Governor of California awarded David the third highest Department of Corrections medal, for his cooperation in this matter. On another occasion, while driving to work, David noticed a fire in a nearby apartment building. He stopped, entered the building and began to awaken and evacuate the people living there. In 2017, the Department of Corrections awarded him the Gold Star, it’s second highest award, for heroic deeds under extraordinary circumstances in saving the lives of those people. David enjoyed frequent trips going exploring, camping and fishing with family, friends and cousin Jeff. In brief, David lived a full life of giving himself to others, and loving all of his family. He both loved and was loved. His life was cut short well before his time. He is deeply missed by the many who knew him.

Like bonnie1962 I can't fathom the heartache and pain either. My brain scampers for words to put together for you Pastor Matthews but I know anything I could say would fall infinitely short. Your Family and your Son will be in my wife and I's prayers.

Some of the old timers here, like me, can remember a time when their grandparents were alive. Mine lived with our family when I was about 6-10 years old for my mother's side, and from around 19-23 for my father's side. My mother's parents were amazing by today's standard. He was a former supervisor at GM, throughout the great depression. He taught me things and was very smart. His vocabulary was extensive. Using words I never heard of. He was born around 1890 I believe. He was alert right up to his death in his 80's. I never saw him drink or smoke. My fathers, father, was interested in baseball. Every week he would receive a small publication of the game from the previous weeks. He knew the statistics of every player. His children would test him, and he always had the answer. He knew the "at bats", RBI's, everything. On hundreds of players. This was in the 60's and 70's. This was before television. He lived to be 94. Smoked occasional cigars until in his eighty's. I never saw him drink. I don't remember any of them taking any medicine. There was no Alzheimer's then. But today, we have videos converted from film, of life in the 1960's and 1970's . There are not many candid interviews of ordinary people back then, but enough that we can understand the culture. Ordinary people from this time were smarter and more knowledgeable than people in their age group today. Few ordinary people went to college in the 60's and 70's . Yet they had a great understanding of social dynamic, life skills and very different values. People were thin back then. The people have changed so much in my lifetime. They have changed so much in the last 50 years. There is even a big change in the last 10 years.

* The word of God is always true. Sometime, it is partial and incomplete. In addition, we may not correctly understand it. * God used Ellen White in the development of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination. * God used Ellene White to urge people to turn to what we commonly call the Bible as the source of ultimate authority as to what God wanted us to know. * Ellen White, in her humanity was imperfect. Her spirituality grew, and changed, over the years of her life. She probably never fully understood what God was communicating to her. * It is clear to me that that modern Adventists of today, often misunderstand what she said, and often mis-use her writings. * Her writings were often sensitive to the time, culture and the circumstances of the person to whom she was writing. With that in mind, one cannot always apply what she said to one person in that same manner to someone today. None of this detracts from her leadership and the value of her ministry to us in our development.

Biden signed several bills to rename federal buildings. The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) community clinic in Lynchburg, Va., will now be known as the Private First Class Desmond T. Doss VA Clinic. NOTE: For those who do not know, Doss was a Seventh-day Adventist conscientious objector medic during WW II, who was awarded the Medal of Honor. He has also been the subject of some movies, such as Hacksaw Ridge.

November 4, 2024 One aspect of David's personality was to play down the issues when he did something that was right. As I have stated, he was awarded the 2nd and 3rd highest medals from the Department of Corrections. He typically dismissed those as simply doing what was right. In regard to the evacuation of the burning building, he sometimes dismissed that by stating that people had left the building prior to his arrival. I will point out that the Department of Corrections would never award the 2nd and 3rd highest awards without fully investigating the incidents and discovering the truth. David told me that when he arrived, some people had already left the building. But, he then entered the burning building to discover others who may have been sleeping and needed to be wakened and evacuated. Yes, he did not do it all. In addition, another Correctional Officer also stopped and assisted in the evacuation of the burning building. That person also was recognized with an award. NOTE: A decision has been made to have services for David, by his wife, on February 2025, at a local SDA Church, but conducted by a pastor of the church that she attends. It is expected that the Department of Corrections will provide full honors.

SDA Video Services: Many SDA Congregations are providing video services for people unable to attend. One such is the Gracepoint SDA Church in Northern California. It uses "youtube" to host its services and it keeps its services available for about 6-months. It also broadcasts live each Saturday at 11:10 AM. To access its services, click on the link below. Then click on one of the following links: * Home: This i sthe home of the Gracepoint congregation. It contains links to videos and other information related to the congregation. * Video: This is the home of videos for the past six months. * Live: This is the location of a current live service. * Playlist: Videos are listed here that are not listed elsewhere. https://www.youtube.com/@GracepointAdventistChurch/streams NOTE: All people are welcome to view the videos. They are watched by people as far away as Iceland, as well as in other nations.

The Adventist church is growing very strong here in the Philippines. The Division head is here. There have been major changes in leadership in the last 5 years. We had a new div president who only lasted a couple of years before moving up to the GC. He made many changes in personnel. The new div president is focused on growth. He has promoted splitting Conferences in half. Some were over 40,000 members. He promoted splitting some unions. All of these splits have been very beneficial to grow and leadership.

Gustave: I have never heard a SDA suggest that the reason for Mary not to touch him was because He might not be worthy of worship, or that He was uncertain as to whether or not His sacrifice had been accepted by the Father. I will not suggest that there is a clear Biblical picture as to why Christ may have wanted to return to the Father at that time. All is probably speculative and your opinion is as likely to be correct is my opinion on that issue. In any case, in my thinking the 1st Advent was completed in those few days prior to the report in Acts 1, as Christ guided in the beginning of the organization and functioning of the Christian church. From this perspective, I see a 1sst advent that has occurred in the past, and a 2nd Advent that will occur in the future.

Question: What does it mean when the husband states that he will make all of the decisions? Answer #1: Well in our marriage I would point out “no dear, I will decide what divorce lawyer I hire to dump you.” Answer #2: I did know a woman whose husband said that and she said OK. she then did nothing. He wanted dinner he decides what it is and cooks it. She badgered him with questions constantly even calling him at work to ask. “What time should I take a shower” then calling back to ask “what soap should I use” then calling back to ask if she should shampoo her hair then it was what towel, the blue one or the green one. The moment he hit the door she was asking “should I sweep the kitchen?” “what are you going to buy for dinner” “what soap for the dishwasher” “ when should I clean the toilet,” She spent most of the day compiling decisions for him to make. After a week of making all the decisions he crawled down from his idiocy and literally begged her to make most of the decisions he really didn’t want her calling him at work during a meeting to ask if their daughters hair should be braided or not or if their son should wear his sandals or closed shoes. I think the final straw was when she called his office during the lunch hour and left a message with the receptionist saying she started her period should she use a pad or a tampon. The receptionist put it up on the message board open and almost everyone in the office got a peek and teased him about it. Thanks to Quora and Angela Birch for the above question and answer. 6

Sister Bertken was a devout Roman Catholic, born in 1457. The following article suggests that her life has something to contribute to us today. https://atoday.org/the-two-windows-of-sister-bertken/

The People of God: In the following article, Loren Seibold challenges us to think beyond what he calls the norms. https://atoday.org/gods-many-many-people/

Gustave: That is why I made my post telling all that it was a joke. I realized that some might not understand.

Surprised he lived this long.

Rachell, the various denominations are divided as to the nature of the bread that Christ used for the Last Supper. * I note that in one post you say: " I told you that "artos" is unleavened." and is a second post, you say: "Artos" is WITH leaven>" I assume that one is a typo. However, let us look at the actual definition of the Greek words. * Artos is the common bread of a family meal. It is considered by many scholars to always be leavened bread. Thiis word tells us that Christ celebrated the Passover with the common bread served at a family meal. * Azumos is a term that references unleavened bread. https://www.onthewing.org/user/BS_Last Supper - Unleavened Bread.pdf#:~:text=The Greek for what we read as "unleavened,and not on bread%2C e.g.%2C I Corinthians 5%3A8. Rachel, I do not know where you got your definitions of the Greek words. But, I will tell you: Never use either Strong or Young to define the meaning of a Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek Biblical word. They are used to tell us how such a word has been translated, which is quite different from telling us what that word means. For the Greek, your best source of the Greek is the so-called Arndt & Gingrich. Always use a lexicon.

Wow. I never thought about that. The way you expressed it is an eye opener. All of the Dispensationalists I have read on forums are elated that they will not have to pass through any tribulation.

Consider: As I followed up on a reference to a SDA leader, I noted that he had a nicely trimmed beard, cut to a short length. As I reflected on this, I realized that he was also bald. I wondered if there is any relationship between bald males who also like to demonstrate that they are able to grow facial hair?

Unfortunately, I do not believe we will be able to have an open discussion on this topic. Prior links to other websites regarding the actions of the Potomac conference have been deleted and apparently only acceptable politically correct websites (ie, those supporting the progressive agenda in the church) will be referred to. Spectrum, as usual, is engaged in another character assassination of someone who does not toe the progressive line. They are doing it to Bohr and have done it to others. This quote from the Spectrum article was concerning: The most recent example is in the Gaithersburg (Maryland) Hispanic church in the Potomac Conference, where Bohr joined church members in defying not only the conference and the pastor, but the standard procedures for inviting speakers into churches. The statement above reminded me of something I saw in a Greek orthodox church one time. The priest told the congregation that the "fathers" had decided and it was their duty to obey. The members of the church in question wanted to hear Stephen Bohr, however, the conference seems to think that they should determine who the members have speak in their church. Never mind that the Potomac conference says nothing to the pride festivities in other conference churches. Never mind that some of these churches were funded by the sacrifice of the members. (This is what happens when you let the conference hold the title to the church that the local members have struggled and sacrificed for to bring about.) Stephen Bohr is a properly credentialed SDA pastor with "no demerits" on his record. There was no valid reason for this kerfluffle to be happening. The Potomac conference is doing to Bohr what the Florida conference did to Doug Batchelor. Bottom line: Stephen Bohr does not support the ordination of women. The Potomac conference is in full on rebellion against the greater church over this matter. So they will cancel him in the Potomac conference.

Dr. Diehl did more to improve the lot of the sick and suffering in his 77 years than most people would do in several lifetimes. It's not always the length of life that matters. Quality is important!

Thanks for that Kevin! Based on your comments I re-read Life Sketches where those quotes came from and then re-read LOCRP-01. I've got some other files in a folder I put together some years ago I also need to read. I'll definitely respond again but not until I review what you've said against the materials I've collected.

Guinea Worm Disease is a tropical disease caused by drinking unfiltered water in Africa. In 1986 3,500.000 people were affected by it. In 2022, a total of 13 people in the entire world are known to have been affected by it. This is due to the work of organizations such as The Carter Center, and others. For more information see: https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/guineaworm/index.html NOTE: Currently The Carter Center is working on River Blindness.

Yes, perhaps, but a problem is that Ellen G. White was a female leader in the SDA denomination. One can debate whether or not she was ordained. But, it is unlikely that any informed person would argue that she was neither female nor a leader in this denomination. Some might say that she never held an elected office. But, it is clear that she was given, the same credentials, over a period of several years, that we give SDA pastors. If we consider SDA male clergy to be SDA leaders we must consider EGW to be a SDA female leader.

Don't know much about parenting but I guess you are going to have a major problem with your daughter if you sneak into her room and remove her property. OTOH, it is your house. You can ask your daughter to take her bag with her and move out or get rid of it if she wants to stay. Or you could change your own mind and develop a closer relationship with your daughter. This is a matter of conscience for you but not for her. I doubt she is a satanist or will become one because of a pentagram. Matters of conscience are important ones, however. You need to realize the problem is not with the symbols but with your conscience. While I respect your disdain, even fear, of things related to the enemy of mankind it is you who are giving those things the power to interrupt your family's harmony. Intrinsically, they are nothing, as Paul said, "An idol is nothing in this world." They have no power, vibration, energy. They are nothing, unless you make them into something.

Leroy Leiske died in 2016, But he should not be forgotten as a SDA leader who helped make the SDA denomination what it is today. See: https://adventistreview.org/news/leiske-remembrance/

On Saturday, May 10, 2025, Adventist Today will host a Zoom Conference on the use that EGW made of the writings of other people. The following link will take you to an article that will inform you of this conference and provide you with the codes that will allow you to join and participate in that conference. The Conference will begin at 10:30 AM Pacific time, 1:30 PM Eastern time. Donald McAdams has a strong background in early SDA research on this subject. https://atoday.org/atss-donald-mcadams-a-review-of-the-ellen-white-revisionist-history-since-1970/

Have you ever wondered how Seventh-day Adventists consider Easter. Well, I invite your to attend/view the Easter services (April 18, 2025) at the Gracepoint SDA Church. Their services are televised live and posted on the Internet for viewing at your pleasure later. The following link will inform you as to their services and provide a link to view the service live. All people are welcomed at their services. The main worship service begins at 11:10 AM. Individual classes, like the Sunday School you may be used to, precede the main worship service. You would be welcomed at any of those services. NOTE: This service is on Saturday morning, not on Sunday. https://graceisthepoint.org/ Gracepoint SDA Chur Wech 3500 Sunset Blvd. Rocklin, CA 95677 916-624-4877

Failure: Recent news stories have reported on apparent failures in Adventism. The following article exams that perspective and suggests that life is often a cycle of beginning, success and ending. One interesting aspect of this relates to her example of a marriage that was successful, as she put oit, yet finally came to an end. https://atoday.org/its-been-a-success-and-now-its-ended/

Do you understand why they are being ordained? They are being ordained because the Constitution of the Union Conferences gives the Unions the right to determine who should be ordained. IOW, in those Conferences the General Conference does not have the right to tell them that they cannot ordain women. From that perspective, they are not in rebellion. Rather it is the General Conference that is in rebellion.

This is an old post, but I thought I would join in. To me, there is a big difference in being involved in a war and joining the service. I was never in the service. At the time when I was 18 there was a war on, and I was afraid of being injured, not killed. I knew a lot of guys brothers who we injured. I was not an Adventist till many years later. I later learned the on 20% serve on the front lines, 80% are logistics. The one regret I have is that I did not at least try to join the service. I think a few years of taking orders and obeying, would have been good for me. And the benefits are terrific. I know a guy from a family that could not afford to send him to college. He joined the service as a diesel mechanic. Served his time and got a great job after.

For those who may not be aware of current SDA practices: We generally have a period during our services when all ages meet in discussion classes. Free discussions are encouraged. At an earlier time, all such classes generally followed a set format that included the topic. That format was adjusted for age an as children differ from adults. Presently, in the US, many such classes do not follow the material provided by the Church. In actual fact, many classes discuss material provided outside of the SDA Church.

I've never heard of such a thing. For the most part, most of the folk in my SS class are quiet, as are the other classes as well. Even pre communion, hardly anyone has a testimony to tell. You act in church as you feel you need to in order to praise God and help others. That can be as little as a few smiles to some who might need them. God bless you. I'm sorry this happened to you.

In a press release from the campus, “Andrews University (AU) has received a grant of $6,326,735 from Lilly Endowment Inc. through its Ministry in Rural Areas and Small Towns Initiative. The initiative aims to provide resources to help churches in rural areas and small towns enhance the vitality of their ministries and strengthen the leadership of the pastors and lay leaders who guide them.” See: https://atoday.org/press-release-andrews-university-receives-major-grant-from-lilly-endowment-inc/ For more, see: https://www.nadadventist.org/news/andrews-university-receives-major-grant-lilly-endowment-inc

Yes, we have the ability to exercise choice. I did not state that due to the fact that I consider personal choice to be understood and therefore not needing to be stated. It is from this perspective that I believe that salvation is a choice. Each of us choses either to spend eternity with God, or not to do so.

On September 14, 2017 the California Department of Corrections awarded David the second highest award for his actions in evacuating the residents of a burning department building. See the link below.

Sheila Jackson Lee was a devout SDA. The following is a 13-minute video of the speech given at her funeral by Kamala Harris, which was attended by other high figures in U.S. politics. She had been a member of Congress for almost 30 years.

My personal position: * The Holy Spirit is in charge of our spiritual development. * God only holds me responsible for what the Holy Spirit has convicted me on.

April 12. 2024 I hope to be able later today to post additional material in response to issues that Gustave has raised. Until I am able to do that, I am locking this thread. I will remove any comments that are placed in this thread by the few people who can post in a locked thread. After I have placed additional material in this thread, I will allow for posts to be made in this thread. In further study of the responses made to me, I believe that I have permission to post them in this forum. So, I will do so, with some explanatory remarks. I am still uncertain as to whether or not I have permission to publish either his name, or position in the SDA denomination. At this time I will simply call him Dr. Paul, (not his real name) and state that he is an SDA Scholar.

NOTE: I am in contact with a SDA scholar who is willing to assist us.

Lawrence, born Sidney Liebowitz in Brooklyn, was the son of Max, a cantor and house painter, and Helen. He started singing in the synagogue choir. After dropping out of Thomas Jefferson High School, he won a spot on Arthur Godfrey’s morning radio show and recorded what became a string of solo hits in his smooth baritone. He met Eydie (born Edith Gormezano, the daughter of Sephardic Jewish parents Nessim Hasdai Gormezano and Fortuna Gormezano, in the Bronx) when both were regular singers on “The Steve Allen Show” (later retitled “The Tonight Show”). They married in 1957. The pair won a Grammy Award in 1960 for their first complete duet album, “We Got Us.” https://www.jta.org/2024/03/11/obituaries/singer-steve-lawrence-son-of-a-cantor-and-half-of-steve-and-eydie-dies-at-88?

Christian Nationalism: The following article should raise issues that will challenge our thinking. https://atoday.org/religious-liberty-only-for-some/

Adventist Today is a magazine that reports on SDA issues and sometimes challenges the Church. If you would like to review past issues, currently all issues published 1993 through 2023 are available on the Internet, at: https://atoday.org/magazine-archives/

110 Representatives from 13 denominations attend a SDA religious liberty prayer breakfast. \https://www.nadadventist.org/news/tapestry-faiths-north-american-divisions-fifth-prayer-breakfast-sparks-unity-mission

📷 Jimmy Carter rides again Photo from video: @erikka2ks08/Reuters Former President Jimmy Carter, who turns 99 on Sunday, and former First Lady Rosalynn Carter, 96, took a ride through the Plains (Ga.) Peanut Festival this weekend, as spotted in the social media image above. Looking ahead to birthday festivities, the Carter Center said: "We're betting peanut butter ice cream is on the menu for lunch!" Why it matters: Carter, the longest-living president ever, entered hospice care on Feb. 18 — just over seven months ago.

Sounds like a big mess

In this forum, we allow considerable freedom of civil discussion. That includes much with which we who operate it disagree with. However, we have always had limits. Some of you have experienced that in private conversations. Some have voluntarily stopped posting here because they did not want to comply with our limits. Others have had their ability to post here removed. With the exception of those who have attempted to post porn, and commercialize their posts, those have been extremely few. Fulcrum 7 exists. People read its posts, as I do at times. I do not want to criticize either it, or the people who post there. Its purpose appears to differ in some manner with the purpose of this forum. If we were to allow considerable duplication of its posts in this forum, we would have to allow significant criticism of them. I do not want that type of discussion to happen in this forum. My position is that we should let Fulcrum 7 be what it is and we will be what we are. I am aware that some of our members also are active on some levels in Fulcrum 7. I am fine with that. They have expressed their opinions in post here in this forum that abide by our standards. Yes, I cite both Adventist Today and Spectrum. But, you should be aware that I only reference a small subset of what is posted on those websites. I also cite from the Review and a number of standard SDA publications. But, my citations consist of a small part of what they publish. The bottom line is: Fulcrum 7, is doing ministry as it understands it to be ministry. Our ministry in this forum is seen differently. We welcome those who wish to participate in this ministry as we understand it. Those who have some differences in their understanding of ministry are welcome to contribute to the ministry of Fulcrum 7.

Probably false testimony or ill informed. I heard a lot of falsehoods in Adventism too. Perhaps you remember Jim Arrabito. He said L.E. Froom was a Jesuit. I went to the heritage room at PUC, found the obituary for Froom's family members in old SDA publications. Benjamin Wilkinson seemed to have started the rumors about Jesuit infiltration. One of his books includes a story about a Jesuit at Union College. The infiltrator supposedly just disappeared once he was discovered. Never identified, it should have been easy to unmask him. Not many religion professors at SDA colleges simply disappear. Wilkinson wrote at least 2 books, one on church history, one on the KJV. I read these books like gospel, believed the great SDA/Jesuit conspiracy. Then it occurred to me that SDA "scholars" pose more/ as much danger to the gospel as do the Jesuits. In one book, Truth Triumphant, Wilkinson states that the Council of Trent was dominated by Jesuits (p 308). Oxford church historian Alister McGrath said that there were only 2 Jesuits at the Council of Trent. There were 29-34 Franciscans, 7-9 Dominicans and between 4 and 14 Augustinians (Iustitia Dei, 320). There were assorted others, all more than the number of Jesuits. How could 2 individuals have dominated so many other groups, in view of the fact that there was of conflict between those orders? If I remember correctly, it was the Dominicans who got the Jesuits expelled from China and contributed to their troubles with the pope. Of course, some would respond that Oxford is controlled by Jesuits and McGrath is a puppet. You are capable of more honorable pursuits, Rahab.

I'm sorry, but you are continuing to misunderstand and thus misread... Maybe it would help if I start out with the historical context before returning to the context of the audience addressed. At this time in history, two theories of inspiration were being developed. The first was modernism which taught that the Bible is purely a human product following evolution. That there may not even be a God and thus the Bible is definitely not from God. In reaction to this people who wanted to believe in God and the Bible ended up going to the opposite extreme: They developed a theory of inspiration called "Fundamentalism" which says that since the Bible is God's book, it has to be as perfect as God is. That it needs to be completely inerrant. That what the Bible says comes 100% directly from God and from the perspective of his all knowing situation. The Whites appeared to dissagree with both extremes (and at least as she got older, Mrs. White definitely rejected both extremes and tried to encourage a moderate understanding. Sadly, she lost this battle.) People becoming aware of these two different views were wondering how Mrs. White's writings fit with all the copying she was doing. Many of these people were helping her to copy. And the Review would send people a copy of some of her favorite books to copy from if they would order a subscription to the Review. The question people were asking was NOT "Are you copying? Yes/No" but "Since you are copying, does this mean that you are getting your message from the people you copy from and not from God?" People who were being attracted to Fundamentalism, and thus trying to look for everything to come 100% from God and not seeing this but seeing a lot of copying were wondering if the message could still come from God if she was doing so much copying. These responses are NOT A DENYAL of copying, but an affirmation that the basic principles and basic message does not come from the sources read and copied but from God. I hope this helps.

The following are books that you may find of value. * McAdams, Donald R., Ellen White & The Historians: A Neglected Problem & A Forgotten Answer, Oak & Acorn Publishing, 2022, 258 pages. * Campbell, Michaell W., 1919: The untold Story of Adventism's Struggle With Fundamentalism, Pacific Press, 2019, 124 pages. * Capmbell, Michael W., 1922: The Rise of Adventist Fundamentalism, Pacific Press, 2022, 144 pages. * Jackson, Maury D. & Brown, Nathan, Editors. A house on fire; How Adventist Faith Responds to Race & Racism. Signs Publishing, 2022. 244 pages. * Rogers, Lynden G., Editor. SThe Biblical Flood: Context & History of Adventist Understanding, 2nd Edition. Avondale Academic Press, 2020, 238 pages. * Bull, Brian, Guy, Fritz, & Taylor, Ervin, Editors. Understanding Genesis: Contemporary Adventist Perspectives. Adventist Today, 2006, 195 pages. * Bull, Brian & Guy, Fritz, God, Sky & Land: Genesis 1 as the Ancient Hebrews Heard it. 2011, Adventist Today, 190 pages. * Bull, Brian & Guy, Fritz. God, Land, & The Great Flood: hearing the Story with 21st Century Christian Ears. Adventist Today, 2017, 211 pages. NOTE: I do not list the above books because I agree with everything that they say. Rather, I list them because they raise issues that deserve thought. With the exception of Adventist Today all of the above publishers are official SDA publishers.

I recently was invited to sit in on a Zoom presentation where I watched a quite learned Gentleman walked the viewers through his personal experiences as well as the history when Catholics started showing up in America and how the Catholic Church growing affected Protestants and particularly SDA's. it was informative and I did learn some things I didn't previously know - well worth the time. One of the things covered was recent efforts to flood areas with the "Great Controversy". This was not viewed by the host in a positive light. It seems some of the reasons were that some of the statements made in the Great Controversy were not grounded in truth but were more conspiracy theory in nature. The Host indicated that these types of statements on Catholicism were commonplace in 19th century Protestantism but as time progressed and people got more educated many of those affirmations could no longer hold water and that is why they started dropping off in Protestant publications - except in Adventist circles where the host claimed to this day there are still Prophetic Seminars being held by Adventists where many of these false affirmations are circulating to predominately an uneducated demographic. The host of the Zoom presentation I watched, from my memory, also suggested there are better ways to spread the Adventist message.