Leaderboard

Sister Bertken was a devout Roman Catholic, born in 1457. The following article suggests that her life has something to contribute to us today. https://atoday.org/the-two-windows-of-sister-bertken/

The People of God: In the following article, Loren Seibold challenges us to think beyond what he calls the norms. https://atoday.org/gods-many-many-people/

Gustave: That is why I made my post telling all that it was a joke. I realized that some might not understand.

Surprised he lived this long.

Rachell, the various denominations are divided as to the nature of the bread that Christ used for the Last Supper. * I note that in one post you say: " I told you that "artos" is unleavened." and is a second post, you say: "Artos" is WITH leaven>" I assume that one is a typo. However, let us look at the actual definition of the Greek words. * Artos is the common bread of a family meal. It is considered by many scholars to always be leavened bread. Thiis word tells us that Christ celebrated the Passover with the common bread served at a family meal. * Azumos is a term that references unleavened bread. https://www.onthewing.org/user/BS_Last Supper - Unleavened Bread.pdf#:~:text=The Greek for what we read as "unleavened,and not on bread%2C e.g.%2C I Corinthians 5%3A8. Rachel, I do not know where you got your definitions of the Greek words. But, I will tell you: Never use either Strong or Young to define the meaning of a Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek Biblical word. They are used to tell us how such a word has been translated, which is quite different from telling us what that word means. For the Greek, your best source of the Greek is the so-called Arndt & Gingrich. Always use a lexicon.

Wow. I never thought about that. The way you expressed it is an eye opener. All of the Dispensationalists I have read on forums are elated that they will not have to pass through any tribulation.

Consider: As I followed up on a reference to a SDA leader, I noted that he had a nicely trimmed beard, cut to a short length. As I reflected on this, I realized that he was also bald. I wondered if there is any relationship between bald males who also like to demonstrate that they are able to grow facial hair?

Dr. Diehl did more to improve the lot of the sick and suffering in his 77 years than most people would do in several lifetimes. It's not always the length of life that matters. Quality is important!

Thanks for that Kevin! Based on your comments I re-read Life Sketches where those quotes came from and then re-read LOCRP-01. I've got some other files in a folder I put together some years ago I also need to read. I'll definitely respond again but not until I review what you've said against the materials I've collected.

Guinea Worm Disease is a tropical disease caused by drinking unfiltered water in Africa. In 1986 3,500.000 people were affected by it. In 2022, a total of 13 people in the entire world are known to have been affected by it. This is due to the work of organizations such as The Carter Center, and others. For more information see: https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/guineaworm/index.html NOTE: Currently The Carter Center is working on River Blindness.

Yes, perhaps, but a problem is that Ellen G. White was a female leader in the SDA denomination. One can debate whether or not she was ordained. But, it is unlikely that any informed person would argue that she was neither female nor a leader in this denomination. Some might say that she never held an elected office. But, it is clear that she was given, the same credentials, over a period of several years, that we give SDA pastors. If we consider SDA male clergy to be SDA leaders we must consider EGW to be a SDA female leader.

Don't know much about parenting but I guess you are going to have a major problem with your daughter if you sneak into her room and remove her property. OTOH, it is your house. You can ask your daughter to take her bag with her and move out or get rid of it if she wants to stay. Or you could change your own mind and develop a closer relationship with your daughter. This is a matter of conscience for you but not for her. I doubt she is a satanist or will become one because of a pentagram. Matters of conscience are important ones, however. You need to realize the problem is not with the symbols but with your conscience. While I respect your disdain, even fear, of things related to the enemy of mankind it is you who are giving those things the power to interrupt your family's harmony. Intrinsically, they are nothing, as Paul said, "An idol is nothing in this world." They have no power, vibration, energy. They are nothing, unless you make them into something.

Leroy Leiske died in 2016, But he should not be forgotten as a SDA leader who helped make the SDA denomination what it is today. See: https://adventistreview.org/news/leiske-remembrance/

The Folded Napkin in John 20:7 contains an important Easter message that probably few have understood. See: https://atoday.org/the-folded-napkin-in-the-empty-tomb/

This topic is now open. I am reserving my right to respond at a later time, in this space. Others may now post comments related to the above posts.

I am in my 80's and in reasonably good health. My brain is still active, even if it is somewhat diminished. I have reasonably good physical health. However, I am having problems with my vision. I receive regular eye injections, which were not on my list of things that I wanted do in life. I am aware that my published posts may contain typos that I have not seen. I work on it, but I have not resolved the issue. I have decided that I will not let that stop me from posting. God does not require perfection. If there is anything of value in my posts, God will use them despite my imperfections. Gregory Matthews

Major Changes at Pacific Union College: An official video has been released at PUC, that has announced major changes to take place in student life. One change stated that all PUC students would be required to wear a common uniform. Another change announced that the restaurant chain Chick-Fil-A was planning to establish a restaurant on campus that would replace the chicken with Fri-chick, resulting in a name for the restaurant of Fri-Chick-Fil-A. That video has resulted in major questions from alumni. See: https://atoday.org/april-fools-day-video-causes-stir-among-pacific-union-college-students/

The above table informs us that in every Division of the SDA Church, for which we have numbers, females outnumber the number of males. What does this tell us in regard to leadership and the number of female SDA leaders? For the source of this table, see: https://spectrummagazine.org/the-current/ NOTE: You will need to page down past several other items to ge to the table of membership.

It's just my humble opinion but I think that even the angels and Saints in heaven are unable to fathom God. There would seem to an infinite distance between the finite (everything other than God) and infinite (God). All we can know is that God is ONE and God is the Divine Attributes Sacred Scripture attributes to God. We're told its a great mystery and I'm certain it absolutely is.

As a human being, I find it very hard, and possibly impossible, to understand something that is outside of and beyond my human experience. Really, how can any human understand something that the human has not only never experienced and will never experience in their human life. I have taken a course in quantum mechanics. I think that I have gained a limited understanding of it as I have been able to correlate some aspects of it to what I have experienced in life. But there are other aspects of it that I simply do not understand, as I cannot relate them to anything in my human life that I have experienced. In my younger years, I had developed a model that I used in attempting to explain the nature of the Godhead. It worked well, I thought. In my later years, I have come to understand that my model explanation was false. I presently have a newer model that I consider to better represent truth. But I recognize that as a human model, it is limited, and I may need to revise it again as I gain a better understanding.

There has been some discussion of EGWs position on the deuterocanonical books. This discussion springs up from time to time, to include the present. However, in my opinion, it has never become a major discussion. In addition, I do not see an agreement on this subject as to what her position actually was on those books. I am aware that some see a similar connection between the writings of EGW and Paradise Lost. I do not see major agreement as to that being a source. I do not think it would be anything more than a point of interest if it should be decided to have been a source for some of her writings. I consider the major contributions that the 2022 book on EGW and the Historians has made to our understandings of the role and ministry of EGW to the SDA denomination is now available to the average member and is not restricted to scholars, include: * An understanding that much of EGWs writings were not based upon visions that she had received. * An understanding that EGW used editorial assistants that had a much greater role in the production of her writings than had previously been understood by the common SDA member. * A greater understanding of her writings having a basis in secular authors. * Publication of how denominational leaders on various levels responded, both pro and con, to the unfolding revelation of this material. As examples, I include in this Robert Olson, whom I knew very well, and Arthur White, whom I knew less well. NOTE, both have died.

On page 234. of the 2022 book on EGW and the Historians, it mentions EGW dreaming of talking to her dead husband.

Christian Nationalism: The following article should raise issues that will challenge our thinking. https://atoday.org/religious-liberty-only-for-some/

Dr. Brand has written a valued article, which the Review has published. If you access the article from the link below, page down to the comments that have been made. https://adventistreview.org/magazine-article/faith-inspired-scientific-inquiry/#comment-6377846884

Same with me, there has been plenty things the existing Pope has said I didn't agree with. In this case of the LGBT issue I thought the wording of the document subsequent coverage of it allowed for many to get the wrong idea. At the end of the day each of us respects our respective Pope's when they speak on a matter of Faith and Morals. There have been plenty of times when our respective Pope's have proffered their own opinion on a matter and we are free to disagree and disregard those types of things.

Adventist Today is a magazine that reports on SDA issues and sometimes challenges the Church. If you would like to review past issues, currently all issues published 1993 through 2023 are available on the Internet, at: https://atoday.org/magazine-archives/

Thanks Pastor Matthews, what you say is true.

Faith & Politics is a regular, 30-minute program that is broadcast on the SDA Hope TV. In each program, a moderator and 4-experts discuss issues related to how governmental rules may impact on religious expression. The people expressing their views come from a variety of backgrounds and often include people who are not SDA members. I like the program. In common with the typical practice of Hope TV, schedules and subjects of discussion are not published in a form that is available to the general public.

Spectrum magazine recommends 8-books for thoughtful reading by Adventists who are personally involved with the mission and ministry of the SDA Chruch. For those books, see: https://spectrummagazine.org/culture/eight-great-books-we-reviewed-in-2023/

Mental Healthl: The following is an excellent article on mental health issues. https://adventistreview.org/magazine-article/i-finally-got-help/

Link to You Tube video on excavations at Shiloh.

Rachel has given us something to think about: * Yes the Greek word is used when talking about the common bread that the family might eat. * Yes, that same Greek word is used in the 14th chapter of Mark in the discussion of the so-called Last Supper. * However, it is also clear that Christ celebrated the Passover with his disciples: Luke 14: 12, 14, & 16. * Mark 14: 16 tells us that it was the disciples that prepared the Passover meal. Do you really thilnk that those disciples would violate the norm for Passover, when it was Passover that they were told to prepare for? noI do ot. The disciples were far from spiritually ready to violate such an important norm. * On the basis of the above, I am left with the thought that the Greek work had a secondary meaning that would allow it to be used for standard Passover bread that was not leavened. * I F that is not true, one would have to say that in the time of Christ faithful Jews used leavened bread to celebrate Passover. I am not willing to accept that as a valid position. NOTE: The Greek word was used 97 times in the New Testament.

My position is that EGW taught that her writings were subject to the authority of the Bible, as Protestants commonly understand it to be. In other words, she taught that if the Bible contradicted what she had written, the Bible was to rule. Unfortunately, some Adventists present themselves as believing that her writings had the authority to explain the Bible. In other words, the Bible was subject to her understanding. In some cases, that is more than a mere presentation. It is an actual belief. Gustave is correct. Adventists sometimes present themselves as being quite like Catholics. Sometimes that is true. The position of some SDAs as to the authority of the General Conference, meeting in session, is quite similar to the Catholic position on the College of Bishops, when it meets in magisterium. NOTE: If I have the title wrong, Gustave may correct me.

I have a few LLS DVDs and have heard them on 3ABN. I appreciate what I've seen. Now one thing that I've noticed and worry about is they are doing an excellent job in going after the philosophy and methods of the Dragon in Revelation 12, but I worry that they end up running towards the beast in Revelation 13 for protection. I wonder if this is why LLS treated you this way Dr. Shane. Revelation 12 and 13 have a counterfeit trinity. The 3 aspects of the trinity are God the Father = God as power, God as final authority, God as greatness that the angels need to veil their faces. God the Sun = God as personal friend, God as relationship. These are two objective revelations of God. Then there is God the Holy Spirit = God revealing God's self and working with and guiding our subjective existential experience, and we are all at different stages of growth and the Holy Spirit works with us where we are to point closer and closer to Christ. These three need to be held in tension yet unison with each other in our minds. The counterfeit trinity focuses on the 3 aspects of God but where they are independent of the others and only cooperate to their own selfish purposes. The dragon represents Satan and demonic work directly, with Satan's first deception: that God is not God and therefore has no right to place a law over us. We are to be a law unto ourselves. We have our own truths and you have your own truths. You search for truth inside yourself. You are your own final authority. At best this is some form of Eastern Religion and at worst it is Spiritualism. This was the spirit behind the French Revolution and all that has come from it influencing the world. It is a counterfeit Holy Spirit. All truth is in your subjective experience. In a lot of ways the beast is the opposite of the dragon. While the dragon is all me and my subjective experience; the beast is some organization outside of our selves that we allow to rule over us. A fantastic example has been the Papacy over the ages (Yes, there have been good and faithful Godly people as popes or elsewhere in the system here and there. I have tremendous respect for Pope John XXIII. Thousands if not millions of more Catholics will be in heaven because of him.) But good or bad, the Papacy still wants to be the papacy, telling us what to do and we submit to it's authority. Sadly, too many Seventh-day Adventists are only worried about this attitude and spirit ONLY if it comes from the Vatican. It it comes from a different direction, especially from Adventist fringe groups who complain that we are not faithful for not toeing the line of what they see as important, or even people more central to our church with this same spirit, we tend to welcome them. The beast is a counterfeit God the Father. The lamb like beast, the false prophet, is a counterfeit Christ, a counter fit personal friend helping us to compromise and excuse ourselves, especially in the final crisis. Everyone will find things in the final crisis that goes against our conscience, and the lamb like beast tells us that it is best for our existential experience to go along with the system. I am finding many so called "conservatives" who are falling into this trap. I don't remember the details, but decades ago I heard a non-Adventist radio, I want to say evangelist, but I think he was a guest for the radio program. He gave an excellent critique on how people were coming to being very individual's experience and thus leaving traditional values. If I recall correctly, he pushed for churches to really push the traditional values and to vote for people who will make laws for and enforcement of traditional values. I have not gotten very far into it, but from the liner notes it looks interesting and hopefully useful, but I got a book looking at the French Revolution and how it has been influencing the world today. But the author keeps pointing to enforcing traditional values, and having little room for where people are in their spiritual growth, seeing everything she sees as "liberal" as horribly and totally wrong and we have to purge this our of our society. And in my LLP DVDs they keep pointing out where films have people looking inside to their feelings and to choose to go in that "follow your heart" direction. This is a danger we need to be aware of; and I am frankly surprised as to how many of these so called "family" entertainment movies are pushing this spiritualistic deception. But again they seem to support a "enforce the truth" solution. The American revolution was for freedom through good laws and to protect people's liberty of conscience. The Europe we broke away from had a spirit of telling people what to do. Your religion was pretty much where you were born, and you had your state church and you better toe the line. The French Revolution was based upon the idea that freedom is an absence of law, just looking inside your self for reason and what is right for you, and coming to the conclusion that most people cannot handle freedom so you need to enforce it until you create a generation that can handle it, but for now only the elite are able to handle it. I think you can say that while the demons prefer the spirit of the French Revolution, of the law has been done away with. But this would have been a headache for the demons. They needed to know everyone to design a temptation for each person. The demons hate us too much to want to spend time customizing temptations to us It was a lot easier when they had a Pope to tell people what to do, To just have only one or a handful of deceptions that has mass appeal. They double checked the results of this experiment with Adolph Hitler and the Nazis. When they were done with him they treated him like a lab rat when done with their experiment. They are now figuring out how to again make a mass appeal temptation, but how to make people such as Bonhoeffer or Churchill go along with it. They don't care if this temptation really has captured your heart, or for you to think it's for your best interest to simply go along with it. To have the mark in either your forehead or right hand. In Rome, there were times where the local community was to come and bow before the emperors image and pray to him. Jews (including Christians) were allowed to skip this as long as they prayed for the emperor in synagogue. But not showing up and bowing could make your neighbors wonder about you and your commitment. So rabbis discussed that they had members who would walk past the image, and not bow and pray, but just notice that their sandal needed adjusting so they bow to fix their sandal, but look committed. This is where we get the idea of the mark in the forehead (those who bow and pray to the emperor) or in the right hand (those who bow to fix their sandal.) We are at different stages in our religious and life experience. In the truth about the trinity we know that there is an ultimate truth that we are heading towards; but we can apply truth to our likes, dislikes, and subjective experiences. It is to become a oneness of applying Godly principles to the type of unique individual God has made each and everyone of us. God is willing to work with us as we learn and work with our needs assessment, fight against having contempt, work with our temperaments, love languages, apology languages and attachment styles. Both the objective truth and our subjective experience can work together.

Michael Czechowski is an often little known, but important figure in SDA history. For a brief telling of his story, see: https://adventistreview.org/magazine-article/michael-czechowski/

I checked and Norton no longer considers your website to be dangerous. Good work on your part.

I can post the article here. The website is safe, although apparently there may be a link to an infected website. My antivirus software doesn't flag it on my PC or my phone. Nonetheless, those that want to read the article but don't want to visit the site until Bluehost finishes their scan can read the page I linked to below. Ellen White is one of the founders of the Seventh-day Adventist church. To be clear, there were several founders. Joseph Bates brought the seventh-day Sabbath light to the group. James White (Ellen’s husband) started the first publishing house. John Andrews was the first church president and first overseas missionary. Uriah Smith was the first church secretary and editor of the church’s periodical. Seventh-day Adventists believe Ellen White received the gift of prophecy in a Biblical sense. They believe that God spoke to her directly through visions and dreams and indirectly by sending angels. These visions and dreams can be compared to those believed to be received by St. Patrick. St. Patrick is believed to have had many visions or dreams from God and the conversion of Ireland was certainly miraculous. There were supernatural signs that indicated White’s gift couldn’t have been fabricated. She often went into vision in public, would stop breathing and be unaware of her surroundings. She was examined by medical doctors and skeptics on multiple occasions while in vision and found to have a pulse but not be breathing. Some visions lasted as long as thirty minutes. She was also spared in a train derailment. When a train she was traveling on derailed, her car became disconnected and stayed on the rails. The pin for her car was found neatly removed and laid upon the hitch – as if done by an angel to prevent her railcar from derailing with the rest of the train. Adventists are not in total agreement on how to use White’s writings. They do all agree that her writings do not supersede the Bible. Many use her writings as an inspired Bible commentary. In doing so, they use her writings to interpret the Bible. Others do not agree with that practice. Some believe everything she wrote was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Others believe only when she says “I was shown…” “The Lord told me…” or similar phrases is when she is baring direct testimony from God. Outside of that, she is expressing her personal beliefs and convictions. This disagreement dates all the way back to the beginning of the church. Uriah Smith was one of the founders of the church and one that believed that only what White was shown in vision or dream was to be considered a “testimony” from God. Ironically, modern-day critics of White use a dispute between Smith and White to discredit her (although most do not realize it). Critics often use the following quote from White, which she wrote in a letter to Smith. Most critics are probably not aware of the context. Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God. You know how the Lord has manifested Himself through the spirit of prophecy. (5T64) The context of this letter tells a lot about the gift of prophecy she is believed to have had. Critics want take the position that in this quote, White is setting herself to be equal with God. Therefore, if you disagree with her opinion, you have insulted the spirit of God. Upon examination, we see that her claim is the role of a messenger and not everything she wrote and spoke was directly from God. The church at Battle Creek, Michigan had a college. The college was focusing more on academics and not on training Bible workers and pastors. White’s letter stated that many parents would stop sending their children to the college if it did not train them for the Bible work of spreading the gospel. She also stated the college needed to teach trades of manual labor and agriculture. From reading the letter, it seems the college was focusing more on academics like math and science and not on religion and vocational skills. When Smith received the letter, he read it as White’s opinion and dismissed it. Even though he believed she had the gift of prophecy. In the quote below, he explains his action to her. The ground of my hesitancy to regard that part of your communication referring to the special school trouble as a “testimony” was the fact that I had always supposed that a testimony was based on a vision, and I did not understand that you had had any vision since the recent trouble in the college commenced; hence I did not see how there could be any “testimony,” in the common acceptation of that term, concerning these special matters. At the same time I said that if you should claim that it was a testimony, I would accept the situation; and so I do. (3BIO 196.3) So basically, Smith says he was unware that God had given White a vision about the matters of the college. Therefore, he considered her letter to be simply her opinion. White not only wrote back, she went to the publishing house and published a pamphlet on the matter. She clarifies that the direction she received from God was in a dream and from an angel. God spoke to her in both dreams and visions. Her visions were often public events that others witnessed. Her dreams were, obviously, private. There were reports of her room being highly lit when angels would visit her at night, I have never read anyone, other than White, claiming to have seen the angel’s form – only the light. “A few weeks since, I was in a dream brought into one of your meetings for investigation. I heard testimonies borne by students against Professor Bell.” (3BIO 198.2) While visiting Healdsburg last winter, I was much in prayer, and burdened with anxiety and grief. But the Lord swept back the darkness at one time while I was in prayer, and a great light filled the room. An angel of God was by my side, and I seemed to be in Battle Creek. I was in your councils; I heard words uttered, I saw and heard things that, if God willed, I wish could be forever blotted from my memory. (3BIO 199.3) After I wrote you the long letter which has been belittled by Elder Smith as merely an expression of my own opinion… the Lord partially removed the restriction, and I write as I do. I dare not say more now, lest I go beyond what the Spirit of the Lord has permitted me. (3BIO 199.5) In the testimonies sent to Battle Creek, I have given you the light God has given to me. In no case have I given my own judgment or opinion. I have enough to write of what has been shown me, without falling back on my own opinions. (3BIO 200.1) White did not consider herself to be infallible, even as a messenger. Dr. David Paulson wrote to White in April 1860, “I was led to conclude and most firmly believe that every word that you ever spoke in public or private, that every letter you wrote under any and all circumstances, was as inspired as the ten commandments.” White responded, “My brother, you have studied my writings diligently, and you have never found that I have made any such claims, neither will you find that the pioneers in our cause ever made such claims” (1SM, 24-26) She also wrote, “God and heaven alone are infallible” (1SM, 37). “The Holy Scriptures are to be accepted as an authoritative, infallible revelation of His will” (GC, vii). This is what she wrote about using her writings (aka Spirit of Prophecy or Testimonies). “I recommend to you, dear reader, the Word of God as the rule of your faith and practice. By that Word we are to be judged. God has, in that Word, promised to give visions in the ‘last days’; not for a new rule of faith (3SM 29.1) “The Lord desires you to study your Bibles. He has not given any additional light to take the place of his Word.” (3SM, 29.2) “In public labor do not make prominent, and quote that which Sister White has written, as authority to sustain your positions. To do this will not increase faith in the testimonies. Bring your evidences, clear and plain, from the Word of God. (3SM 29.3) [emphasis added]. “Little heed is given to the Bible, and the Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light. (3SM 30.4) “Brother J would confuse the mind by seeking to make it appear that the light God has given through the Testimonies is an addition to the Word of God, but in this he presents the matter in a false light. (3SM 30.6) In summary: There still exists a diverse opinion among Seventh-day Adventists. There are those that believe everything she wrote was inspired by God. There are others that are inclined to think like Uriah Smith – that only when she says “the Lord showed me” is it a testimony from the Lord. Still others do not think much about her. This third group does not read her writings and only reads from the Bible.

Unfortunately, I do not believe we will be able to have an open discussion on this topic. Prior links to other websites regarding the actions of the Potomac conference have been deleted and apparently only acceptable politically correct websites (ie, those supporting the progressive agenda in the church) will be referred to. Spectrum, as usual, is engaged in another character assassination of someone who does not toe the progressive line. They are doing it to Bohr and have done it to others. This quote from the Spectrum article was concerning: The most recent example is in the Gaithersburg (Maryland) Hispanic church in the Potomac Conference, where Bohr joined church members in defying not only the conference and the pastor, but the standard procedures for inviting speakers into churches. The statement above reminded me of something I saw in a Greek orthodox church one time. The priest told the congregation that the "fathers" had decided and it was their duty to obey. The members of the church in question wanted to hear Stephen Bohr, however, the conference seems to think that they should determine who the members have speak in their church. Never mind that the Potomac conference says nothing to the pride festivities in other conference churches. Never mind that some of these churches were funded by the sacrifice of the members. (This is what happens when you let the conference hold the title to the church that the local members have struggled and sacrificed for to bring about.) Stephen Bohr is a properly credentialed SDA pastor with "no demerits" on his record. There was no valid reason for this kerfluffle to be happening. The Potomac conference is doing to Bohr what the Florida conference did to Doug Batchelor. Bottom line: Stephen Bohr does not support the ordination of women. The Potomac conference is in full on rebellion against the greater church over this matter. So they will cancel him in the Potomac conference.

One can respect a person and disagree with aspects of that person's life.

I have much respect for S. Bohr

Probably false testimony or ill informed. I heard a lot of falsehoods in Adventism too. Perhaps you remember Jim Arrabito. He said L.E. Froom was a Jesuit. I went to the heritage room at PUC, found the obituary for Froom's family members in old SDA publications. Benjamin Wilkinson seemed to have started the rumors about Jesuit infiltration. One of his books includes a story about a Jesuit at Union College. The infiltrator supposedly just disappeared once he was discovered. Never identified, it should have been easy to unmask him. Not many religion professors at SDA colleges simply disappear. Wilkinson wrote at least 2 books, one on church history, one on the KJV. I read these books like gospel, believed the great SDA/Jesuit conspiracy. Then it occurred to me that SDA "scholars" pose more/ as much danger to the gospel as do the Jesuits. In one book, Truth Triumphant, Wilkinson states that the Council of Trent was dominated by Jesuits (p 308). Oxford church historian Alister McGrath said that there were only 2 Jesuits at the Council of Trent. There were 29-34 Franciscans, 7-9 Dominicans and between 4 and 14 Augustinians (Iustitia Dei, 320). There were assorted others, all more than the number of Jesuits. How could 2 individuals have dominated so many other groups, in view of the fact that there was of conflict between those orders? If I remember correctly, it was the Dominicans who got the Jesuits expelled from China and contributed to their troubles with the pope. Of course, some would respond that Oxford is controlled by Jesuits and McGrath is a puppet. You are capable of more honorable pursuits, Rahab.

August 2, 2023 At one point in time, yesterday evening, 150 guests were reading a large variety of the posts on this forum.

In my opening post, I listed a link to a website that had a complex listing o the legal actions that were going on. As few people have probably read that in detail. I will summarize what is listed as happening. Everything happening is normal for litigation of this type. 1) Each party to this case is entitled to be represented by an attorney. So, every time a new attorney is hired to represent a party, a formal notice is filed to give all parties notice that this new person is actively involved in the litigation. 2) Everyone has to be notified as to who is the plaintiff in this litigation along with the attorneys who are representing a plaintiff. 3) The alleged defendants and the attorneys representing them have to be identified to all. 4) Each defendant has a right to ask to be dismissed as a defendant from the litigation, and the plaintiffs have the right to object to that dismissal. It is normal to have some dismissed while others remain.

Well, I personally worked for Fenten Froom, the son of L. E. Froom. Neither was a Jesuit. I wonder, how many of those who suggest that some SDA was a Jesuit, have ever personally know a Jesuit Priest. I have have personally worked with a Jesuit Priest on a 5-day a week basis. I got my Roman Catholic book of Canon Law from him.

I was listening to Franklin Graham on the radio this morning try to explain why Sunday is the Lord's Day. It was painful to listen to him grasp at straws in trying to make a New Testament connection to Sunday sacredness. But is it really that important? God-fearing Christians have been honoring Sunday for centuries and there are millions today that still do. What difference does it really make? I don't believe that keeping the seventh day (Saturday) holy is a salvation issue unless a person feels completely convicted to do so and is rebelling against the Spirit of God. In my study of the Bible I find there are many things God allows us to do which He is not too supportive of. Throughout the centuries God has allow polygamy. That was never His ideal. God started marriage in the Garden of Eden with one man and one woman. That was and still is His ideal. However God allowed polygamy. God also allowed divorce which Jesus said was due to the hardness of man's heart. Divorce was never God's ideal but was allowed. God also allowed meat-eating. Humans were created vegetarians and were not given permission to eat meat until after the Flood. Later God tried to return men to vegetarianism by feeding them manna in the wilderness. God also blessed the prophet Daniel physically and mentally because he chose a vegetarian diet. So there is a pattern where God allows things such as polygamy, divorce and meat-eating even though they are less than His ideal. It seems that God has allowed Sunday keeping among Christians but we cannot assume that means He has blessed it. The Bible teaches that God's people have always kept Saturday holy as His day of rest and worship. The first evidence of the early church keeping Sunday may well come from Irenaeus - a second-century church father. Prophecy in both Daniel and Revelation foretold of a period of time that the church would enter into apostasy and the traces of that can be found just after the last of the apostles died. It continued through the Dark Ages and until Martin Luther was able to use the technological advance of the printing press to spread the message of forgiveness by grace. Biblical truths did not all come at once with Martin Luther. He was God's man for the hour with a very important message. Salvation is the free gift from God and cannot be bought with earthly treasure. About 200 years after Luther God called John Wesley with another important truth. He emphasized the teaching of prevenient grace which teaches God loves every person and longs salvation for them but has given each free will to accept His offer of grace or reject it. Then, about another 200 years later God brought the Sabbath truth to light. Why? If the Sabbath wasn't such a big deal for the 2nd and 3rd century Christians nor for Martin Luther or John Wesley, why would God bring it to light in the 1800s? Charles Darwin's book "On the Origin of Species" was published in 1859. The Seventh-day Adventist church was organized in 1863 by Joseph Bates, James White, Ellen G. White and J. N. Andrews. The purpose of the church was to declare the soon, literal coming of Jesus Christ and to point people to worship the Creator and Redeemer. The seventh-day Sabbath is the only doctrine that calls for action on the part of the believer which demonstrates the belief that Jesus, in conjunction with God the Father and Holy Spirit, created the Earth and all of the universe. The Sabbath message flies in the face of evolution. The Sabbath message goes hand in hand with the call in Revelation chapter 14 to worship the Creator. The reason given in the Fourth Commandment for honoring the Sabbath is that God rested on it after creating the world and life on it. Creation is the mark of God's authority and the seventh-day Sabbath is memorial of it. The Apostles never honored Sunday as the Lord's day. Much is written in the New Testament on the issue of circumcision. The fact that so little is recorded in the New Testament about the Sabbath is strong evidence that it was a non-issue. Circumcision was for the Jews. The first person to be circumcised was Abraham - the father of the Jews. The Sabbath is for all of humanity. The first person to honor the Sabbath was Adam - the father of the human race. Circumcision is not mentioned in the Ten Commandments. More words are dedicated to the Sabbath Commandment than any of the other nine. Jesus said He was the Lord of the Sabbath. That must mean that the Sabbath is the Lord's day. *This was originally posted by me as a Facebook note June 19, 2012.

God says it is a sign between his people and Him. By keeping the Sabbath it means we are God’s own.

The meaning of God making man after His imagine has many different interpretations. I like a perspective I heard from David Asscherick. It is the relational God. The Godhead has three parts - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There are relationships that exist within the Godhead. Man was created to have relationships. The family is a relationship unit. The parents have a relationship with each other. The children have sibling relationships with each other. Then there are the children-parent relationships between the children and the parents. Of course, my master's degree is in marriage and family therapy so I have a bias for liking a perspective such as that. I am of the opinion that relationships are the most valuable thing we have on this planet. Sin is destructive to relationships. Sin hurts relationships between people and it hurts relationships between an individual and God. Any doubts about the value of relationships? Let me share some observations. A rich man loses his mother (or wife or child). He is overcome with grief. He has no interest in his bank balance or the status of his investments. He pours all of his energy into the relationships with the family members still living. Another example is what I have witnessed in the developing countries where I served as a soldier and later as a missionary. I have seen children and families laughing and playing. These same families slept on wooden boards for beds and lived in huts with dirt floors. I heard them sing at church and joyfully run around after the service laughing. They had no monetary wealth but they did have healthy family relationships. God so love the world that He sent His Son to die so that He could salvage the lost relationship with humanity. It is not gold or prestige that most improves the quality of life. It is relationships. Relationships with other people and a relationship with God.

Excellent!!! Thank you Dr. Shane!!! Relationship is the key to anything we can think of. From before creation to after the destruction of the wicked, and through out all eternity. The trinity are three things creatures need to know and experience for a life giving relationship with God: That God is God, the great self existent all powerful one. If this was the only way God revealed himself to us, as soon as creatures saw this part of God-self, it would quite literally scare creatures to death. There needed to be a oneness of the knowledge of God's greatness, as well as his intimate friendship with creatures. If God only revealed himself to us as approachable, sooner or later a creature would make an unwise choice and wonder why this friend thinks he knows so much more than we do. To exist creatures needed both, but even these two revelations, while each necessary, they were insufficient. God the Father and God the Son are both objective revelations of God. God created us to be (as he is) both objective and subjective. The Holy Spirit is God relating to us through our subjective existential experience. The gospel is all about relationship. I've been thinking a lot about what I read in Dr. Doukhan's commentary on Genesis about a year or so ago, and a misreading that has hurt relationships. There is a poem in Genesis 3:14 through 16. Sometimes we break up our thinking between verse and/or chapter divisions. This poem starts out with the curse on the serpent. It talks about the enmity between the woman and the serpent and her decedents, especially one seed, the promised seed that is described as "Him" and "He" and while the serpent was going to try to kill "Him" the attack will not cause a fatal wound but that act would be fatal to the serpent. The poem goes on to describe how, in both the physical pain of childbirth, but also the emotional connection to her children, that there will be a stronger emotional connection for both what they do well, but also in their poorer choices. That the husband (as seen later) will not have the same emotional connection, and is often more focused on work, that the woman just won't forget about him like how some insects are to the male of their species, but she will still desire him to be in this family situation. Then comes the very misunderstood words "and He shall rule over you." Too often over history we have applied this "He" to the husband. But "He" is a character who has already appeared in this story, who is already identified in the poem. This "He" is to rule Adam, Eve and all their children. Yes, He is coming some day, but not future in the by and by, but HE IS, HE AM, He is already there with them, and this dysfunctional human family were to turn to this "He" to rule them. This is the same "He" from Exodus 3 "He is the God of Abraham, He is the God of Isaac and He is the God of Jacob" The whole passage is about relationships; How the women and children and how they relate to the husband, and that one more person was needed, the promised "He". I have been writing down things I've learned that I've found useful from both Biblical Studies and my work as a psychiatric nurse. There are a few chapters by Mrs. White that I wish our church would publish under one binding as a missionary book. They are "The Origin of Evil" from Patriarchs and Prophets, "Why Was Sin Permitted" from Great Controversy, "God Made Manifest in Christ" from Signs of the Times January 20, 1890, "Gethsemane" from Desire of Ages, which are all background leading to the chapter "It is Finished" Mrs. White's crowning work. When talking about this with a pastor, he told me that these are available on line and can be copied and sent out. I hope I don't get into trouble for this, but I've taken these chapters and added a few of my own: One talking about what the terms "Milk and Honey" meant for the ancient world, another on what the Greek word mistranslated "Inn" in Luke 2 actually means (it was a room in a family home for out of town relatives to stay in when visiting) and looking at what archaeology has taught us about Nazareth. Also a chapter on misconceptions tradition gives us on the death of Jesus and the Jews, a chapter on last day events and looking at who hell fire really is (Yes, it's relational again). But then I felt the need to add to this the two chapters I had written from my work as a psychiatric nurse (as well as college and Air Force). The first chapter deals with human nature, some things that we all have in common, and while not all inclusive, I've been impressed at the overlap and dovetailing between the ideas of the philosopher/poet Eli Siegel in his "Aesthetic Realism" , the psychologist William Glasser in his "Choice Theory/Reality Therapy", and the work of Lois Eggers in her "Common Sense Psychology". Then one on some of our major differences as in our temperaments, love languages, apology languages, and attachment styles. I see all of these involved together in our relationships, and our doctrine of the investigative judgment. It all grows out of our relationship with each other and to the promised "He".

I eat plently of plant fiber.