Leaderboard

Sister Bertken was a devout Roman Catholic, born in 1457. The following article suggests that her life has something to contribute to us today. https://atoday.org/the-two-windows-of-sister-bertken/

The People of God: In the following article, Loren Seibold challenges us to think beyond what he calls the norms. https://atoday.org/gods-many-many-people/

Gustave: That is why I made my post telling all that it was a joke. I realized that some might not understand.

Surprised he lived this long.

Rachell, the various denominations are divided as to the nature of the bread that Christ used for the Last Supper. * I note that in one post you say: " I told you that "artos" is unleavened." and is a second post, you say: "Artos" is WITH leaven>" I assume that one is a typo. However, let us look at the actual definition of the Greek words. * Artos is the common bread of a family meal. It is considered by many scholars to always be leavened bread. Thiis word tells us that Christ celebrated the Passover with the common bread served at a family meal. * Azumos is a term that references unleavened bread. https://www.onthewing.org/user/BS_Last Supper - Unleavened Bread.pdf#:~:text=The Greek for what we read as "unleavened,and not on bread%2C e.g.%2C I Corinthians 5%3A8. Rachel, I do not know where you got your definitions of the Greek words. But, I will tell you: Never use either Strong or Young to define the meaning of a Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek Biblical word. They are used to tell us how such a word has been translated, which is quite different from telling us what that word means. For the Greek, your best source of the Greek is the so-called Arndt & Gingrich. Always use a lexicon.

Wow. I never thought about that. The way you expressed it is an eye opener. All of the Dispensationalists I have read on forums are elated that they will not have to pass through any tribulation.

Consider: As I followed up on a reference to a SDA leader, I noted that he had a nicely trimmed beard, cut to a short length. As I reflected on this, I realized that he was also bald. I wondered if there is any relationship between bald males who also like to demonstrate that they are able to grow facial hair?

Dr. Diehl did more to improve the lot of the sick and suffering in his 77 years than most people would do in several lifetimes. It's not always the length of life that matters. Quality is important!

Thanks for that Kevin! Based on your comments I re-read Life Sketches where those quotes came from and then re-read LOCRP-01. I've got some other files in a folder I put together some years ago I also need to read. I'll definitely respond again but not until I review what you've said against the materials I've collected.

Guinea Worm Disease is a tropical disease caused by drinking unfiltered water in Africa. In 1986 3,500.000 people were affected by it. In 2022, a total of 13 people in the entire world are known to have been affected by it. This is due to the work of organizations such as The Carter Center, and others. For more information see: https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/guineaworm/index.html NOTE: Currently The Carter Center is working on River Blindness.

Yes, perhaps, but a problem is that Ellen G. White was a female leader in the SDA denomination. One can debate whether or not she was ordained. But, it is unlikely that any informed person would argue that she was neither female nor a leader in this denomination. Some might say that she never held an elected office. But, it is clear that she was given, the same credentials, over a period of several years, that we give SDA pastors. If we consider SDA male clergy to be SDA leaders we must consider EGW to be a SDA female leader.

Don't know much about parenting but I guess you are going to have a major problem with your daughter if you sneak into her room and remove her property. OTOH, it is your house. You can ask your daughter to take her bag with her and move out or get rid of it if she wants to stay. Or you could change your own mind and develop a closer relationship with your daughter. This is a matter of conscience for you but not for her. I doubt she is a satanist or will become one because of a pentagram. Matters of conscience are important ones, however. You need to realize the problem is not with the symbols but with your conscience. While I respect your disdain, even fear, of things related to the enemy of mankind it is you who are giving those things the power to interrupt your family's harmony. Intrinsically, they are nothing, as Paul said, "An idol is nothing in this world." They have no power, vibration, energy. They are nothing, unless you make them into something.

Leroy Leiske died in 2016, But he should not be forgotten as a SDA leader who helped make the SDA denomination what it is today. See: https://adventistreview.org/news/leiske-remembrance/

Historic Adventism: The following article is written by a person who is both an administrator and an academic. He speaks to an important issue related to our relationship today to our past history. https://atoday.org/why-historic-adventism-isnt-the-answer/

I would not argue against the position that Gustave has stated. However, I will expand upon it a bit. The common understanding in Adventism, is that the human person in life is a living soul, to use the Biblical term. From that perspective the common belief would be that the human person does not have an identifiable part which is called a soul. However, this is not a fundamental belief that is required for one to become a SDA member. I am reminded of an important SDA member in Europe, who is now dead. His name has slipped my mind. In his lifetime he probably did more to support the mission and ministry of the SDA Church in Europe, and has been done by any other person. It was his strong belief that humans had an independent soul. His identity as a SDA, was not challenged. It should be noted that he believed that at the death of the person, the independent soul assumed an unconscious state. That is actually the fundamental belief in Adventism. So, a person who believes that humans have an independent soul that becomes unconscious at death can be considered to be within the accepted bounds of Adventism. I understand that many Adventists would be surprised at my statement. I simply point out that Adventism has a greater range of accepted belief than is often understood.

Gustave: The Seventh-day Adventist Church has always had a greater diversity of belief and practice than many people have realized. In part this is due to our general belief that the Christian life is a life of growth and therefore, SDA congregations should be a place where followers of Christ can come and experience the individual growth that the Holy Spirit brings. That growth is individualized and we are not to be expected to be in the same position at the same time. However, the reality that we are now a denomination of more than 21-million members plus many more who may attend but have not yet decided to formally join has resulted in major changes that have reduced the power of the North American Adventists. Africa now has considerable influence over the selection of the General Conference President. Some today believe that the current GC President owes his election to Africa, and the next election for the GC President will ultimately be decided by Africa. Australia is becoming more influential in doctrinal matters, as North America is losing influence. Individual theologians from Europe are gaining in influence. Current SDA leadership in North America, seemingly fearful of a loss of power, is struggling to tighten their power over the various organizational levels and departments that exist within the SDA Church, both in North America and in the world at large. This was clearly evident at a recent set of Spring meetings of SDA officials. Some predict that such will ultimately result in a large split in the SDA Church, at least on the local level, if not the international level. I do not agree with this. However, it is thought that there are SDA leaders who would welcome such as something that is needed prior to the 2nd Advent of Christ. I do not welcome such, as I believe that the Holy Spirit would not lead in that direction. In my personal opinion, I believe that the Holy Spirit is expecting the Seventh-day Adventist Church of today to experience further growth in faith, understanding and practice. While based upon the leading of God in the past, we must grow beyond that foundation to experience what God would want of us today. I do not attempt to predict either how or where God will lead in the future. I am confident that God will lead beyond what I can imagine.

I should possibly talk about a creed later. For now, I will mention EGW. A person who joins the SDA Church is asked to believe in the "gift of prophecy," as defined in the Bible, in the chapter on spiritual gifts. Most people associate that spiritual gift with Ellen White. However, the individual is not required, according to our official requirements, to believe that Ellen White had that spiritual gift. Today, there are SDAs who do not beleive that EGW had that gift and many of them remain members of the SDA Church. Some chose to leave the SDA Church.

10 Hopes For the Church Of Tomorrow is an article well worth reading. See: https://spectrummagazine.org/views/10-hopes-for-the-church-of-tomorrow/

Major Changes at Pacific Union College: An official video has been released at PUC, that has announced major changes to take place in student life. One change stated that all PUC students would be required to wear a common uniform. Another change announced that the restaurant chain Chick-Fil-A was planning to establish a restaurant on campus that would replace the chicken with Fri-chick, resulting in a name for the restaurant of Fri-Chick-Fil-A. That video has resulted in major questions from alumni. See: https://atoday.org/april-fools-day-video-causes-stir-among-pacific-union-college-students/

Christian Nationalism: I have posted before, on this important subject. The following article suggests some additional ways for Adventists to respond to this subject. This article has been distributed by the Rocky Mountain Conference. https://www.rmcsda.org/commentary-an-adventist-response-to-christian-nationalism/

It's just my humble opinion but I think that even the angels and Saints in heaven are unable to fathom God. There would seem to an infinite distance between the finite (everything other than God) and infinite (God). All we can know is that God is ONE and God is the Divine Attributes Sacred Scripture attributes to God. We're told its a great mystery and I'm certain it absolutely is.

Lawrence, born Sidney Liebowitz in Brooklyn, was the son of Max, a cantor and house painter, and Helen. He started singing in the synagogue choir. After dropping out of Thomas Jefferson High School, he won a spot on Arthur Godfrey’s morning radio show and recorded what became a string of solo hits in his smooth baritone. He met Eydie (born Edith Gormezano, the daughter of Sephardic Jewish parents Nessim Hasdai Gormezano and Fortuna Gormezano, in the Bronx) when both were regular singers on “The Steve Allen Show” (later retitled “The Tonight Show”). They married in 1957. The pair won a Grammy Award in 1960 for their first complete duet album, “We Got Us.” https://www.jta.org/2024/03/11/obituaries/singer-steve-lawrence-son-of-a-cantor-and-half-of-steve-and-eydie-dies-at-88?

The following link takes you to an important article on relationships between the SDA Church and other denominations. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/eight-models-to-help-adventism-get-over-its-ecumenism-aversion/ For additional material on this subject, see the following book: https://www.amazon.ca/Adventist-Interchurch-Relations-Study-Ecumenics/dp/3847114638

As a congregational pastor in the Potomac Conference, I would visit other Sunday-keeping congregations because I wanted to become better acquainted with the local pastors and their worship. On an occasional basis that resulted in my being asked to preach to their congregation on Sunday, and I would respond by asking their pastor to preach in my congregation on Saturday. NOTE: As an Army Chaplain, I have been asked to preach to a local Sunday congregation and in my sermon to explain to that congregation what SDAs believed and practiced.

Faith & Politics is a regular, 30-minute program that is broadcast on the SDA Hope TV. In each program, a moderator and 4-experts discuss issues related to how governmental rules may impact on religious expression. The people expressing their views come from a variety of backgrounds and often include people who are not SDA members. I like the program. In common with the typical practice of Hope TV, schedules and subjects of discussion are not published in a form that is available to the general public.

Adventism in Europe: The following article suggests that Adventism in Europe differs from Adventism elsewhere and what this may mean. NOTE: In Germany, SDA military members are not welcome to worship in German SDA congregations--GM. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/is-there-a-european-adventism-ecclesiological-holzwege-i/

Mental Healthl: The following is an excellent article on mental health issues. https://adventistreview.org/magazine-article/i-finally-got-help/

Faith & the Arts: The following article informs as to a unique approach made by one congregation to interact with the public. https://adventistreview.org/commentary/local-church-in-the-u-s-finds-ways-to-connecting-faith-and-the-arts/

My position is that EGW taught that her writings were subject to the authority of the Bible, as Protestants commonly understand it to be. In other words, she taught that if the Bible contradicted what she had written, the Bible was to rule. Unfortunately, some Adventists present themselves as believing that her writings had the authority to explain the Bible. In other words, the Bible was subject to her understanding. In some cases, that is more than a mere presentation. It is an actual belief. Gustave is correct. Adventists sometimes present themselves as being quite like Catholics. Sometimes that is true. The position of some SDAs as to the authority of the General Conference, meeting in session, is quite similar to the Catholic position on the College of Bishops, when it meets in magisterium. NOTE: If I have the title wrong, Gustave may correct me.

I have a few LLS DVDs and have heard them on 3ABN. I appreciate what I've seen. Now one thing that I've noticed and worry about is they are doing an excellent job in going after the philosophy and methods of the Dragon in Revelation 12, but I worry that they end up running towards the beast in Revelation 13 for protection. I wonder if this is why LLS treated you this way Dr. Shane. Revelation 12 and 13 have a counterfeit trinity. The 3 aspects of the trinity are God the Father = God as power, God as final authority, God as greatness that the angels need to veil their faces. God the Sun = God as personal friend, God as relationship. These are two objective revelations of God. Then there is God the Holy Spirit = God revealing God's self and working with and guiding our subjective existential experience, and we are all at different stages of growth and the Holy Spirit works with us where we are to point closer and closer to Christ. These three need to be held in tension yet unison with each other in our minds. The counterfeit trinity focuses on the 3 aspects of God but where they are independent of the others and only cooperate to their own selfish purposes. The dragon represents Satan and demonic work directly, with Satan's first deception: that God is not God and therefore has no right to place a law over us. We are to be a law unto ourselves. We have our own truths and you have your own truths. You search for truth inside yourself. You are your own final authority. At best this is some form of Eastern Religion and at worst it is Spiritualism. This was the spirit behind the French Revolution and all that has come from it influencing the world. It is a counterfeit Holy Spirit. All truth is in your subjective experience. In a lot of ways the beast is the opposite of the dragon. While the dragon is all me and my subjective experience; the beast is some organization outside of our selves that we allow to rule over us. A fantastic example has been the Papacy over the ages (Yes, there have been good and faithful Godly people as popes or elsewhere in the system here and there. I have tremendous respect for Pope John XXIII. Thousands if not millions of more Catholics will be in heaven because of him.) But good or bad, the Papacy still wants to be the papacy, telling us what to do and we submit to it's authority. Sadly, too many Seventh-day Adventists are only worried about this attitude and spirit ONLY if it comes from the Vatican. It it comes from a different direction, especially from Adventist fringe groups who complain that we are not faithful for not toeing the line of what they see as important, or even people more central to our church with this same spirit, we tend to welcome them. The beast is a counterfeit God the Father. The lamb like beast, the false prophet, is a counterfeit Christ, a counter fit personal friend helping us to compromise and excuse ourselves, especially in the final crisis. Everyone will find things in the final crisis that goes against our conscience, and the lamb like beast tells us that it is best for our existential experience to go along with the system. I am finding many so called "conservatives" who are falling into this trap. I don't remember the details, but decades ago I heard a non-Adventist radio, I want to say evangelist, but I think he was a guest for the radio program. He gave an excellent critique on how people were coming to being very individual's experience and thus leaving traditional values. If I recall correctly, he pushed for churches to really push the traditional values and to vote for people who will make laws for and enforcement of traditional values. I have not gotten very far into it, but from the liner notes it looks interesting and hopefully useful, but I got a book looking at the French Revolution and how it has been influencing the world today. But the author keeps pointing to enforcing traditional values, and having little room for where people are in their spiritual growth, seeing everything she sees as "liberal" as horribly and totally wrong and we have to purge this our of our society. And in my LLP DVDs they keep pointing out where films have people looking inside to their feelings and to choose to go in that "follow your heart" direction. This is a danger we need to be aware of; and I am frankly surprised as to how many of these so called "family" entertainment movies are pushing this spiritualistic deception. But again they seem to support a "enforce the truth" solution. The American revolution was for freedom through good laws and to protect people's liberty of conscience. The Europe we broke away from had a spirit of telling people what to do. Your religion was pretty much where you were born, and you had your state church and you better toe the line. The French Revolution was based upon the idea that freedom is an absence of law, just looking inside your self for reason and what is right for you, and coming to the conclusion that most people cannot handle freedom so you need to enforce it until you create a generation that can handle it, but for now only the elite are able to handle it. I think you can say that while the demons prefer the spirit of the French Revolution, of the law has been done away with. But this would have been a headache for the demons. They needed to know everyone to design a temptation for each person. The demons hate us too much to want to spend time customizing temptations to us It was a lot easier when they had a Pope to tell people what to do, To just have only one or a handful of deceptions that has mass appeal. They double checked the results of this experiment with Adolph Hitler and the Nazis. When they were done with him they treated him like a lab rat when done with their experiment. They are now figuring out how to again make a mass appeal temptation, but how to make people such as Bonhoeffer or Churchill go along with it. They don't care if this temptation really has captured your heart, or for you to think it's for your best interest to simply go along with it. To have the mark in either your forehead or right hand. In Rome, there were times where the local community was to come and bow before the emperors image and pray to him. Jews (including Christians) were allowed to skip this as long as they prayed for the emperor in synagogue. But not showing up and bowing could make your neighbors wonder about you and your commitment. So rabbis discussed that they had members who would walk past the image, and not bow and pray, but just notice that their sandal needed adjusting so they bow to fix their sandal, but look committed. This is where we get the idea of the mark in the forehead (those who bow and pray to the emperor) or in the right hand (those who bow to fix their sandal.) We are at different stages in our religious and life experience. In the truth about the trinity we know that there is an ultimate truth that we are heading towards; but we can apply truth to our likes, dislikes, and subjective experiences. It is to become a oneness of applying Godly principles to the type of unique individual God has made each and everyone of us. God is willing to work with us as we learn and work with our needs assessment, fight against having contempt, work with our temperaments, love languages, apology languages and attachment styles. Both the objective truth and our subjective experience can work together.

Michael Czechowski is an often little known, but important figure in SDA history. For a brief telling of his story, see: https://adventistreview.org/magazine-article/michael-czechowski/

In the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary there is an excellent essay in Volume 4 titled "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" In college every Bible class required a fresh reading and fresh paper on this chapter. While this chapter gives a Macro view, our classes took a micro view to the portion we were studying. God gave the prophecies with the possibility to be fulfilled in that generation or not too long into the future. Even the 2300 evenings and mornings were given in a year that happened to contain the date that was 2300 literal days from Belshazzar's feast. But it uses cyclic language and we find the Hebrew Cycles in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, based on the week of 6 days and the Sabbath, 6 months and the Passover/Day of Atonement, 6 years and the Sabbatical year (and in Leviticus, but not Deuteronomy, and Daniel is based on Deuteronomy: 6 Sabbatical years and the Jubilee.) Thus Daniel 8:14 could be understood as 2300 days, months or y ears. While sadly my memory of the essay seems to close with some attempt at replacement theology; from both the essay and the classes, we find that God was offering the Hebrews two ways to bring the gospel to the world. The first I call "Land Theology" or "Land Eschatology" This piece of property was quite literally the center of the ancient world. This was THE major intersection for the great trade routes connecting Europe, Asia, Africa, and Arabia. I won't go into detail here, but the plants, animals, geography and weather features of these 4 places met and competed here. This competition is what the Bible means when describing the land as a land flowing with milk and honey. In trying to deal with the competition of all these in the land of milk and honey (If you don't mind being a little grossed out I'll give more information below) the Canaanites formed some very dangerous superstitions; at least one of which made this most important intersection one of, if not the most dangerous place on earth. The Hebrews were to make this safe for world trade. They were to live faithfully, trust in the God of both milk and honey to deal with the above listed competitions, and the caravans were to talk about these people who superficially seemed anti-religious. On the one hand they all wore clothes with tassels that included one blue thread (the sign that someone was a priest). They had a place or places to "worship" but they did not have any gods/images. What a sacrilege. While grateful for the safety, the world would hear stories and expect the offended gods to vent their wrath on these people. But surprise, surprise, instead of the gods venting their wrath at these people, these people are to be blessed. The caravans were to carry these stories to the farthest parts of the world. Others would want to know why they were blessed. As people tried to learn why they are blessed they were to be welcomed and learn that these people were not anti-religious, but worshipers of the true God who does not need all the ritual that the pagans used, but a simple common sense religion, and a God too great to be in an image. As this message spread through the world, nations would join with them, others not believing them reject the message and the world would end in a great eschatological war, in which the individuals on both sides who did not individually reject this God would survive. If the Hebrews were not faithful, God would send curses to encourage them to repent. If nothing else worked, they would be sent into exile. In exile they were to share with their neighbors their unfaithfulness and God's faithfulness. And if faithful the exile would end in a second great exodus lead by the messiah. Thus, Land Theology/Eschatology is stay faithful in the land and let the caravans carry the gospel to the world. And Exile Theology/Eschatology is "Go ye into all the world and spread the gospel. After Babylon there was a return to 70 weeks of years of land theology. But then we went back under exile theology. We are spread through out the world to share the gospel and we will go home in a second great exodus lead by the Messiah to our true home in heaven. The Dispensationalists do not see this. They keep ignoring the "If's" in the Bible. They want the Jews to be back in the land so that the church can be removed (raptured) and the Jews suffer in last day events. We can care about both sides in this issue as humans. Even though located in this geographical space, ever since the days of navigation, then air transport and electronic transport, the conditions required for land eschatology cannot be met. It is no longer the center of the world and no longer the caravans to carry the gospel to the world. Thus even in this land, the faithful, Christians, Jews, I even believe that there are faithful Muslims, are still to witness and live under the framework that the Bible gives for exile theology. Thus we are not looking for any "get the land" ideas for us to care about these people, but to care about them because they are humans, and that they are the caretakers of this important location in understanding the Bible. We don't care about them for bringing about the "rapture" we care for them for being our brothers and sisters in the Lord. By the way, if you think God is through with the Jew, may I encourage you to read anything by Abraham Joshua Heshel, or the artwork by Marc Chagall, or at least read the book "This is My God" by Herman Wouk, God is working with all his faithful, Jew and Gentile alike by us sharing what God has done for us, in the framework of exile theology, share with our neighbors our God and wait for the exile to end when we see "HIM" coming in the clouds of heaven to bring us home. In the mean time, we will submit to God's plans for the Hebrews, natural and grafted in, as He works through more and more of us as he worked through Paul, Luther, Roger Williams, Abraham Joshua Heshel, Herman Wouk and Marc Chagall. People like Heshel and Chagall are examples of what we are going to see in many Jews as we all share the gospel.

Adventist education is generally considered to be in crisis on some levels. Fletcher Academy is an independent school, not officially a SDA school. It is doing very well, for a program unique in Adventism. See: https://spectrummagazine.org/interviews/2023/fletcher-academy-leader-shares-his-blueprint-success

The question is: What is God's blueprint for today. I remind you that a dairy farm in California might work, while a dairy farm in Alaska would not work.

What authority should be given to Ellen White, is a very real and critical question. The following article contributes to that question. https://spectrummagazine.org/views/2023/ellen-white-and-prophetic-authority

I checked and Norton no longer considers your website to be dangerous. Good work on your part.

I feel very comfortable with the official Seventh-day Adventist position on abortion. I also feel very comfortable distinguishing between my religious beliefs and my political beliefs. Some think my religious beliefs contradict my political beliefs but I feel comfortable with both and feel I am being consistent. Statement on the Biblical View of Unborn Life and Its Implications for Abortion

The required surgery appeared impossible. A plan was developed. Step by step, over a multi-year period of time, something was accomplished and the next step in surgery was planned. Finally the ultimate surgical step was taken. For the results, see: https://adventistreview.org/profile/what-if-my-son-were-in-that-situation/

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Gently holding a baby hummingbird between her hands, Catia Lattouf says, “Hello, cute little guy. Are you very hungry?” It’s the newest patient at her apartment in a toney section of Mexico City where she has nursed hundreds of the tiny birds back to health over the past decade. https://apnews.com/article/mexico-hummingbirds-clinic-3f8247ca7957416aa97ccbb7b2f1aca8?

Psalm 2, 7 prophetically applied to Christ is speaking of the Incarnation when Jesus was indeed born "in the flesh". You've no doubt heard the saying that 'wherever you go - there you are'. Well, Christ was the Son prior to the Incarnation according to the Scriptures.

August 2, 2023 At one point in time, yesterday evening, 150 guests were reading a large variety of the posts on this forum.

In my opening post, I listed a link to a website that had a complex listing o the legal actions that were going on. As few people have probably read that in detail. I will summarize what is listed as happening. Everything happening is normal for litigation of this type. 1) Each party to this case is entitled to be represented by an attorney. So, every time a new attorney is hired to represent a party, a formal notice is filed to give all parties notice that this new person is actively involved in the litigation. 2) Everyone has to be notified as to who is the plaintiff in this litigation along with the attorneys who are representing a plaintiff. 3) The alleged defendants and the attorneys representing them have to be identified to all. 4) Each defendant has a right to ask to be dismissed as a defendant from the litigation, and the plaintiffs have the right to object to that dismissal. It is normal to have some dismissed while others remain.

Well, I personally worked for Fenten Froom, the son of L. E. Froom. Neither was a Jesuit. I wonder, how many of those who suggest that some SDA was a Jesuit, have ever personally know a Jesuit Priest. I have have personally worked with a Jesuit Priest on a 5-day a week basis. I got my Roman Catholic book of Canon Law from him.

A great organization, being run by a true Patriotic President, who is a wonderful example of what a Christian looks like!!

I was listening to Franklin Graham on the radio this morning try to explain why Sunday is the Lord's Day. It was painful to listen to him grasp at straws in trying to make a New Testament connection to Sunday sacredness. But is it really that important? God-fearing Christians have been honoring Sunday for centuries and there are millions today that still do. What difference does it really make? I don't believe that keeping the seventh day (Saturday) holy is a salvation issue unless a person feels completely convicted to do so and is rebelling against the Spirit of God. In my study of the Bible I find there are many things God allows us to do which He is not too supportive of. Throughout the centuries God has allow polygamy. That was never His ideal. God started marriage in the Garden of Eden with one man and one woman. That was and still is His ideal. However God allowed polygamy. God also allowed divorce which Jesus said was due to the hardness of man's heart. Divorce was never God's ideal but was allowed. God also allowed meat-eating. Humans were created vegetarians and were not given permission to eat meat until after the Flood. Later God tried to return men to vegetarianism by feeding them manna in the wilderness. God also blessed the prophet Daniel physically and mentally because he chose a vegetarian diet. So there is a pattern where God allows things such as polygamy, divorce and meat-eating even though they are less than His ideal. It seems that God has allowed Sunday keeping among Christians but we cannot assume that means He has blessed it. The Bible teaches that God's people have always kept Saturday holy as His day of rest and worship. The first evidence of the early church keeping Sunday may well come from Irenaeus - a second-century church father. Prophecy in both Daniel and Revelation foretold of a period of time that the church would enter into apostasy and the traces of that can be found just after the last of the apostles died. It continued through the Dark Ages and until Martin Luther was able to use the technological advance of the printing press to spread the message of forgiveness by grace. Biblical truths did not all come at once with Martin Luther. He was God's man for the hour with a very important message. Salvation is the free gift from God and cannot be bought with earthly treasure. About 200 years after Luther God called John Wesley with another important truth. He emphasized the teaching of prevenient grace which teaches God loves every person and longs salvation for them but has given each free will to accept His offer of grace or reject it. Then, about another 200 years later God brought the Sabbath truth to light. Why? If the Sabbath wasn't such a big deal for the 2nd and 3rd century Christians nor for Martin Luther or John Wesley, why would God bring it to light in the 1800s? Charles Darwin's book "On the Origin of Species" was published in 1859. The Seventh-day Adventist church was organized in 1863 by Joseph Bates, James White, Ellen G. White and J. N. Andrews. The purpose of the church was to declare the soon, literal coming of Jesus Christ and to point people to worship the Creator and Redeemer. The seventh-day Sabbath is the only doctrine that calls for action on the part of the believer which demonstrates the belief that Jesus, in conjunction with God the Father and Holy Spirit, created the Earth and all of the universe. The Sabbath message flies in the face of evolution. The Sabbath message goes hand in hand with the call in Revelation chapter 14 to worship the Creator. The reason given in the Fourth Commandment for honoring the Sabbath is that God rested on it after creating the world and life on it. Creation is the mark of God's authority and the seventh-day Sabbath is memorial of it. The Apostles never honored Sunday as the Lord's day. Much is written in the New Testament on the issue of circumcision. The fact that so little is recorded in the New Testament about the Sabbath is strong evidence that it was a non-issue. Circumcision was for the Jews. The first person to be circumcised was Abraham - the father of the Jews. The Sabbath is for all of humanity. The first person to honor the Sabbath was Adam - the father of the human race. Circumcision is not mentioned in the Ten Commandments. More words are dedicated to the Sabbath Commandment than any of the other nine. Jesus said He was the Lord of the Sabbath. That must mean that the Sabbath is the Lord's day. *This was originally posted by me as a Facebook note June 19, 2012.

The general understanding of the EGW statements as to intelligent life on other planets is: * That they pertain to planets outside of our solar system. * That those inhabitants could have sinned but did not. * Those inhabitants are aware to some degree as to what happened on Earth after sin began to rule. * From the perspective of that knowledge. those inhabitants will never sin and reject God's leadership. I point out that Gustave speculates as to the consequences of what might result if those inhabitants were to chose to sin. His perspective includes that idea that if they sinned God would not intervene to prevent some of the results that he suggests. Can I suggest a Biblical verse for every thing that I have stater her? Of course not. What I say may be just a speculative as what Gustave has said.

One of the critical things that I learned from Dr Horn was the idea that while objective facts are important, an analysis of those facts may be just as important or even more important than the objective facts. This applies to all areas of study. I will illustrate from the area of Dr. Horn's field of study. * You discover an ancient clay plate that has embedded in it some Egyptian hieroglyphs. Your plate is an objective fact. * First you are going to need a trained scholar to decipher those hieroglyphs. That is beyond you. Absent the scholar telling you the meaning of those hieroglyphs, you have little of value. * Next you are going to have to analyze that plate and the and what you have been told the hieroglyphs say. In your analysis, you may arrive at one meaning, while your friend may arive at another meaning. Both of your are hones. But, issues are not always clear-cut. * Sometimes the meaning that someone might give to that place would be clearly stupid. I could give you names of people who have their analysis rejected because it is simply stupid. But, I am not here to cite names. Sometimes honest people simply see things from different perspectives. Bur, each has valid reasons for the positions that they take. Life is not always so simple tha there is only one answer for an honest person. All of us may have inherent bias in our thought processes. * Perhaps this is going on in our current discussions in this forum. * But, that is O. K. This forum exists to foster civil discussions of issues of interest.

I recently was invited to sit in on a Zoom presentation where I watched a quite learned Gentleman walked the viewers through his personal experiences as well as the history when Catholics started showing up in America and how the Catholic Church growing affected Protestants and particularly SDA's. it was informative and I did learn some things I didn't previously know - well worth the time. One of the things covered was recent efforts to flood areas with the "Great Controversy". This was not viewed by the host in a positive light. It seems some of the reasons were that some of the statements made in the Great Controversy were not grounded in truth but were more conspiracy theory in nature. The Host indicated that these types of statements on Catholicism were commonplace in 19th century Protestantism but as time progressed and people got more educated many of those affirmations could no longer hold water and that is why they started dropping off in Protestant publications - except in Adventist circles where the host claimed to this day there are still Prophetic Seminars being held by Adventists where many of these false affirmations are circulating to predominately an uneducated demographic. The host of the Zoom presentation I watched, from my memory, also suggested there are better ways to spread the Adventist message.

They come out very strong on the Gospel in Rev 14 and the fact that the first Angel's message points directly at Ex 20:11 - the literal creation week. The basis for that gospel message starts with "Who is God" Three Angel's Messages Quarterly link

I eat plently of plant fiber.